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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 3:41:07 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

We have stereo types because they are a useful shortcut for our brains. If they weren't useful, we would'n't have them.
Just like we go to a restaurant - our brain cuts out all the incident conversations - and we don't "hear" them.

And - for the record - other animals stereotype as well.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, Phydeaux. I know what you mean and have some sympathy but I can't see how it relates here. Could you explain further?

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 7:47:11 PM

Kirata

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~ FR ~

It's ironic that so many people hate the only group that's not in the pocket of Wall Street.

For many members of Congress, wooing wealthy Wall Street donors and financial services PACs is a routine part of their reelection efforts... But the industry feels powerless when it comes to dealing with some members of the tea party, who are immune from one of Wall Street’s most potent tools: campaign donations... That is a new strain in the Republican party that worries many on Wall Street... They have no allegiance to K Street and Wall Street... financial services lobbyists said that as much as the industry is fed up with tea party lawmakers’ role in Washington’s fiscal showdowns, these members remain largely out of their reach. ~Politico

K.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 9:47:19 PM

mnottertail

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Wow, and they dont know science to boot. who is the tea party? that is like John Galt, cuz there is only teabaggers in the legislature. No tea party.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 9:51:07 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

It's ironic that so many people hate the only group that's not in the pocket of Wall Street.

For many members of Congress, wooing wealthy Wall Street donors and financial services PACs is a routine part of their reelection efforts... But the industry feels powerless when it comes to dealing with some members of the tea party, who are immune from one of Wall Street’s most potent tools: campaign donations... That is a new strain in the Republican party that worries many on Wall Street... They have no allegiance to K Street and Wall Street... financial services lobbyists said that as much as the industry is fed up with tea party lawmakers’ role in Washington’s fiscal showdowns, these members remain largely out of their reach. ~Politico

K.

People hate them because they just tried to destroy the world economy not because they are not beholden to Wall or K streets. More reasons to hate them is their birther idiocy, their willingness to be pawns of extremely wealthy oil barons, their attacks against the patriotism of their oppoenents and virtually all of the teabaggers behavior and policy goals.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 11:08:18 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
It's ironic that so many people hate the only group that's not in the pocket of Wall Street.

I'd argue that the green party qualifies. But yeah, one of the things I like about the tea party is that they share my scepticism with the Fed, wall street in general, and the oozy relationship between big money and big votes. That's one of the points I wish the pro-occupy people could see more clearly.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 11:09:30 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

People hate them because they just tried to destroy the world economy not because they are not beholden to Wall or K streets.

Well that's your view. Another view is that Obama could have ended the shutdown any time he wanted by accepting one of the various compromises the House offered.

K.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 11:25:10 PM

NoBimbosAllowed

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Dear Phydeaux,

since Tweaky bailed immediately after the mention of -

-- Now tell us about Craig Thompson and Ian MacDonald. I think you avoided that elsewhere. So I think that other posts on such things on my part are not so up for debate.

I'm wrong about them too, or are you merely going to resort to the "blue tie" comments that guaranteed Gillard FAILED and was ousted by her own party?

Gillard's a agnostic, right? -- "

I invite you to "bing" these names and their current "exploits" as well, plus the track record of someone I imagine Tweaky was quite a fan of: Kristina Keneally, first Premiere (aka "State Governor") of New South Wales. Also likely the LAST female Premiere due to her performance (or lack thereof) despite my own vote and friends' votes for her.

Also look up how the Lefties tore themselves apart choosing a new leader here,

and then look up Roxon's lambast on Kevin Rudd.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-16/nicola-roxon-kevin-rudd-bastard-james-button-memorial-lecture/5027030&sa=U&ei=znVjUveJDOj_iAf054H4Bg&ved=0CBgQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFvzBTe0EsyQPOJ-zvY6aLd6ZT6aA

Tweaks is wrong in thinking I am anti Labour as she is wrong in thinking I am anti Science. I am pro science and pro "right person for the job".

As are a ton of Aussies.

which is why a GAZILLION people, who were of the left RIGHT UP TIL GILLARD and Rudd were OUSTED, switched gears and voted them out. Since (along the lines of thishereboi's comment) people on the street - lifelong lefties - complained that the so called Pink Party was behaving JUST as Draconian and as corruptly as the Right, but unlike the right, they were INCOMPETENT with the budget, except for being piggies-at-the-trough.

btw Tweaks, LOTS of us voted for Julia. And if you assumed I didn't, you were dead-bang WRONG about that too.

Just because a political party makes you feel "twee" about yourself doesn't mean that Party can even be trusted to take out the f----g garbage. And a lot of HIGH RANKING Aussie feminists said, on RN, they couldn't bring themselves to support Julia.

I'm betting some of those women write articles Tweaks enjoys reading.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 11:26:22 PM

tweakabelle

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The tea party, along with most extreme Right wing groups, profess a disdain for Wall St, which is commendable.

Unfortunately that disdain is not evident in the tea party' s solutions - lower taxes for the rich, abolishing services to assist the marginalised, opposition to universal healthcare, abolishing environmental protections, promotion of a kind of lassez-faire capitalism etc. - are all policies designed to further the interests of the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

What else might one expect from a movement created and funded by extreme right wing billionaires like the Koch brothers? There's no need for Wall St to purchase such groups, they already sup willingly, enthusiastically at the altar of laissez-faire capitalism, and are there of their own accord.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/19/2013 11:27:30 PM >

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/19/2013 11:32:47 PM

NoBimbosAllowed

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look, Tweaks, if YOU run, I can get you votes.

It's not about left or right, it's about the PEOPLE that have to walk under those banners.

the PEOPLE claiming the parties fail, not the ideologies.

I'm serious. Run and if you succeed, it'll assist in similar efforts in the USA or Canada.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 12:58:17 AM

joether

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.....

< Message edited by joether -- 10/20/2013 12:59:58 AM >

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 5:15:55 AM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The tea party, along with most extreme Right wing groups, profess a disdain for Wall St, which is commendable.

Unfortunately that disdain is not evident in the tea party' s solutions - lower taxes for the rich, abolishing services to assist the marginalised, opposition to universal healthcare, abolishing environmental protections, promotion of a kind of lassez-faire capitalism etc. - are all policies designed to further the interests of the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

What else might one expect from a movement created and funded by extreme right wing billionaires like the Koch brothers? There's no need for Wall St to purchase such groups, they already sup willingly, enthusiastically at the altar of laissez-faire capitalism, and are there of their own accord.

I cannot begin to elucidate the depths of sheer loathing I have for that repulsive worldview.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 5:32:30 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

People hate them because they just tried to destroy the world economy not because they are not beholden to Wall or K streets.

Well that's your view. Another view is that Obama could have ended the shutdown any time he wanted by accepting one of the various compromises the House offered.

K.

So in your opinion half of one branch of government should dictate policy to the rest of government. Do you think that is how the government is supposed to function?

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 5:33:42 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The tea party, along with most extreme Right wing groups, profess a disdain for Wall St, which is commendable.

Unfortunately that disdain is not evident in the tea party' s solutions - lower taxes for the rich, abolishing services to assist the marginalised, opposition to universal healthcare, abolishing environmental protections, promotion of a kind of lassez-faire capitalism etc. - are all policies designed to further the interests of the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

What else might one expect from a movement created and funded by extreme right wing billionaires like the Koch brothers? There's no need for Wall St to purchase such groups, they already sup willingly, enthusiastically at the altar of laissez-faire capitalism, and are there of their own accord.

I cannot begin to elucidate the depths of sheer loathing I have for that repulsive worldview.

You loathe reality?

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 5:44:54 AM

Lucylastic

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Reality has a well known liberal bias!!!!
how many "proposals", let alone bills have tea party members put forward to chain wall street????
lets face it, how many republicans or conservatives, libertarians and "ahem independents" have sponsered any bill to shut down wall street, insurance, banks, mortgage companies, etc etc ?????
obama care 42 times
we see JP morgan deal of 13 billion....Justice department
Also
JPMorgan was reported to have reached a tentative $4 billion settlement with the Federal Housing Finance Agency over claims it sold bad mortgages to government agencies ahead of the financial crisis
And it faces criminal charges, sbut Im sure they will get their cronies(both parties btw) to get them out of that
Why has congress not done more?

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 7:53:17 AM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

It's ironic that so many people hate the only group that's not in the pocket of Wall Street.

For many members of Congress, wooing wealthy Wall Street donors and financial services PACs is a routine part of their reelection efforts... But the industry feels powerless when it comes to dealing with some members of the tea party, who are immune from one of Wall Street’s most potent tools: campaign donations... That is a new strain in the Republican party that worries many on Wall Street... They have no allegiance to K Street and Wall Street... financial services lobbyists said that as much as the industry is fed up with tea party lawmakers’ role in Washington’s fiscal showdowns, these members remain largely out of their reach. ~Politico

K.

Politico isn't a good predictor. If you look at the top prognosticators from the last couple elections -- Nate Silver of 538 and Sam Wang of Princeton -- there are some clear issues. First, that Republicans are extremely likely to retain the House in 2014, despite brand damage caused by the shutdown. Second, that the Tea Party politicians within the Republican Party are vulnerable. For example, this recent interview with Wang:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-14/tea-partys-house-seats-might-not-be-all-that-safe

Even more to the point, Koch Industries recently sent a letter to Harry Reid, of all people, stating that the Koch brothers strongly opposed Obamacare, but did not support debt default as a tactic to stop it. Also, the US Chamber of Commerce is now on record as stating they will provide funds to Republican primary candidates running *against* Tea Party candidates. This is a significant policy change on their part.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 8:07:47 AM

hot4bondage

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Ron Paul did his best to open the books of the Federal Reserve. I think most occupy AND tea party people would like to see where all that money went.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 9:05:25 AM

Apocalypso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

Ron Paul did his best to open the books of the Federal Reserve. I think most occupy AND tea party people would like to see where all that money went.

Unless it went on military spending, veteran's benefits, border controls, the war on terror etc, at which point most tea party people are all in favour of big government .

While there are a minority of libertarians involved in the Tea Party, they aren't a libertarian movement, they're a conservative one. And even their fiscal conservatism is highly selective.

On social issues, it's even more stark. The Tea Party is all in favour of government promoting their social values. To the point where most would refuse to vote for a candidate who was fiscally conservative, but socially liberal.

That's the big difference between them and Occupy. Largely, Occupy refused Democratic attempts to harness them. The Tea Party movement was a lot more willing to be incorporated into the Republican establishment. To the point where, by now, they're merely a faction of that establishment, not an opposition to it.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 12:18:36 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Read churchills complete unabridged histories of wwII - all 7? volumes - at age 7.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 5:02:34 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

We have stereo types because they are a useful shortcut for our brains. If they weren't useful, we would'n't have them.
Just like we go to a restaurant - our brain cuts out all the incident conversations - and we don't "hear" them.

And - for the record - other animals stereotype as well.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, Phydeaux. I know what you mean and have some sympathy but I can't see how it relates here. Could you explain further?

Let me give you two examples.

It is dark. You are a woman, alone. Due to the angle of the sun - you can't see the approaching stranger.

This is an inherently dangerous situation. The brain does not have time to consciously figure out - is this a man. Is this a woman. So the brain picks up on clues - very very rapidly - for example - size, angles, speed of approach - and determines whether fight, or flight, or something else is necessary.

Another example. The preoptic nerve of the brain has "pre" filters that categorize and recognize shapes. Throw a ball by surprise at someone and he will catch it.
Throw a knife and he will (try) to duck. He may fail in either event. But the brain is trying to invent methods to cope.

Last example. Some people have phobias of knives. Or of animals. Did you ever notice that we never have phobias of wicker baskets?
A phobia is an unreasoned response being inappropriately applied.

So, in the same vein. I personally detest it when people say how "bad" stereotypes are. Stereotypes certainly need to be examined. But there's a joke: In heaven the police are british, the lovers are Italians, the bankers are swiss, the mechanics are british...

In hell the lovers are british, the mechanics Italians, the germans are the police...

Its funny because stereotypes are *useful*

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/20/2013 5:07:48 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Reality has a well known liberal bias!!!!
how many "proposals", let alone bills have tea party members put forward to chain wall street????
lets face it, how many republicans or conservatives, libertarians and "ahem independents" have sponsered any bill to shut down wall street, insurance, banks, mortgage companies, etc etc ?????
obama care 42 times
we see JP morgan deal of 13 billion....Justice department
Also
JPMorgan was reported to have reached a tentative $4 billion settlement with the Federal Housing Finance Agency over claims it sold bad mortgages to government agencies ahead of the financial crisis
And it faces criminal charges, sbut Im sure they will get their cronies(both parties btw) to get them out of that
Why has congress not done more?

Because dear lucy, the democratic party is HEAVILY in the pockets of wallstreet. Check the donorship the last 5 years - more than a 3:1 financial advantage to the dimocrats.

Compare and contrast. After the savings and loan crisis under Reagan - more than 1100 people went to jail.
The savings and loan crisis under Obama... zero.

Instead - he nominates them to his cabinet.

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