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RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/25/2013 9:06:55 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I don't want to sign up.

Kaiser has cancelled our policy and our premium has gone up from $477 a month for a good policy to $605 a month for their lowest level of coverage which is so crappy we might as well have nothing.

At this point we're considering taking the penalty and putting the difference into a managed care account.


You could always look on the exchange and see what is out there. Very few people will actually pay more for equivalent coverage.


I can get slightly better coverage than the ACA for the same cost as the ACA directly through a carrier. But, that's not the point. I had a good policy that I could afford. Now, I am being forced to pay more for less. I'm being punished for being middle class and I don't think that's fair.

How would you know until you look?



Well, I no longer have my same insurance company. We went from four company offerings to one. The coverage is less and the cost is the same. What happed to the promise I could keep my same insurance, did it go the way of that promise Obama would bring back our manufacturing? Where is this Obama guy anyway, is he in charge? Guess not, since he knows nothing and is responsible for nothing. I say, it doesn't matter, let's pass this and then read what is in it, we probably should sign our next auto loan contracts that way too.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 10/25/2013 9:10:33 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/25/2013 9:44:47 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.gallup.com/poll/165548/approval-affordable-care-act-inches.aspx

"October 23, 2013
Approval of Affordable Care Act Inches Up
More Democrats now approve of the law, while most Republicans still disapprove
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- Despite the highly publicized technical issues that have plagued the government's health insurance exchange website that went live on Oct. 1, Americans' views of the Affordable Care Act are slightly more positive now than they were in August. Forty-five percent now approve of the law, while 50% disapprove, for a net approval score of -5. In June and August, net approval was slightly lower, at -8.



These results come from a Gallup poll conducted Oct. 18-20, a few days after the end of the recent government shutdown -- which centered on partisan debates over funding the healthcare law -- and as media coverage of the poorly functioning health exchange sites increased. The results suggest that the problems with the health exchanges have not negatively affected Americans' overall views of the law, at least to this point."


Just wanna say Im happy that a few of the people I know who have signed up are happy with their new found insurance abilities!!!!!


So, his approval ratings are now slightly above Hell freezing over.

That's a heck of a move.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/26/2013 11:13:32 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

TAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZY TAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZY TAZZZZZZZZZ TAZZZZZZZZZZ TAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZY GIRL
Allo my darlin!!!!
missed you!


Missed you tooooooooooooooo

Been busy!

Seems the groping continues without me

Good to know they cant pin that on me anyone!


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/26/2013 11:16:28 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

The analysis showed huge variations among states: A family of four making $50,000 in Wyoming, for instance, would pay $1,237 a month on average for a midlevel plan before subsidies, compared to $584 a month on average in Tennessee. After subsidies are added in, however, the cost to both families would be $282 because the amount they pay is linked to their income, not to the cost of coverage.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2013/september/25/federal-exchange-rates-lower-than-expected.aspx



LOL.. this has already been debunked numerous times. For the younger brackets they presumed 27. For the older brackets(50+) they chose 50.

To say that that number is representative of the group as a whole is, well, a lie.

But, who ya gonna believe - a democratic ally (Kaiser) or the non partisan CBO.

Yeah. Tough call.


Who said it was representative of the group as a whole? Dont put words into my posts.

Considering the only person who discussed that particular insurance is close to that age group, its not irrelevant.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/26/2013 11:26:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

It's official. MSNBC announces this afternoon, on every show, it is Hannity's fault people are not signing up for Obamacare because of his and the GOP's lies, lies and more lies about Obamacare. Ed and the Rev are actually screaming and yelling. It is a hoot to watch these losers. They remind me of used car salespersons.
UPdate: A talking head looked us in the eye and let us know how responsible and caring and open Obama has been. I choked.



Now you know I had to address this. Apparently Mr Hannity had 6 guests on his show, all there to describe their "horror stories" about trying to sign up for ACA.

I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.

First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did.

There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That’s all.

Next I called Allison Denijs. She’d told Hannity that she pays over $13,000 a year in premiums. Like the other guests, she said she had recently gotten a letter from Blue Cross saying that her policy was being terminated and a new, ACA-compliant policy would take its place. She says this shows that Obama lied when he promised Americans that we could keep our existing policies.

Allison’s husband left his job a few years ago, one with benefits at a big company, to start his own business. Since then they’ve been buying insurance on the open market, and are now paying around $1,100 a month for a policy with a $2,500 deductible per family member, with hefty annual premium hikes. One of their two children is not covered under the policy. She has a preexisting condition that would require purchasing additional coverage for $600 a month, which would bring the family’s grand total to around $20,000 a year.

I asked Allison if she’d shopped on the exchange, to see what a plan might cost under the new law. She said she hadn’t done so because she’d heard the website was not working. Would she try it out when it’s up and running? Perhaps, she said. She told me she has long opposed Obamacare, and that the president should have focused on tort reform as a solution to bringing down the price of healthcare.

I tried an experiment and shopped on the exchange for Allison and Kurt. Assuming they don’t smoke and have a household income too high to be eligible for subsidies, I found that they would be able to get a plan for around $7,600, which would include coverage for their uninsured daughter. This would be about a 60 percent reduction from what they would have to pay on the pre-Obamacare market.

Allison also told me that the letter she received from Blue Cross said that in addition to the policy change for ACA compliance, in the new policy her physician network size might be reduced. That’s something insurance companies do to save money, with or without Obamacare on the horizon, just as they raise premiums with or without Obamacare coming.

If Allison’s choice of doctor was denied her through Obamacare then, yes, she could have a claim that Obamacare has hurt her. But she’d also have thousands of dollars in her pocket that she didn’t have before.

Finally, I called Robbie and Tina Robison from Franklin, Tenn. Robbie is self-employed as a Christian youth motivational speaker. (You can see his work here.) On Hannity, the couple said that they, too, were recently notified that their Blue Cross policy would be expiring for lack of ACA compliance. They told Hannity that the replacement plans Blue Cross was offering would come with a rate increase of 50 percent or even 75 percent, and that the new offerings would contain all sorts of benefits they don’t need, like maternity care, pediatric care, prenatal care and so forth. Their kids are grown and moved out, so why should they be forced to pay extra for a health plan with superfluous features?

When I spoke to Robbie, he said he and Tina have been paying a little over $800 a month for their plan, about $10,000 a year. And the ACA-compliant policy that will cost 50-75 percent more? They said this information was related to them by their insurance agent.

Had they shopped on the exchange yet, I asked? No, Tina said, nor would they. They oppose Obamacare and want nothing to do with it. Fair enough, but they should know that I found a plan for them for, at most, $3,700 a year, 63 percent less than their current bill. It might cover things that they don’t need, but so does every insurance policy.


http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

Imagine that! He had 3 couples on, and not a one had bothered to shop the exchange.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/26/2013 11:42:27 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

It's official. MSNBC announces this afternoon, on every show, it is Hannity's fault people are not signing up for Obamacare because of his and the GOP's lies, lies and more lies about Obamacare. Ed and the Rev are actually screaming and yelling. It is a hoot to watch these losers. They remind me of used car salespersons.
UPdate: A talking head looked us in the eye and let us know how responsible and caring and open Obama has been. I choked.



Now you know I had to address this. Apparently Mr Hannity had 6 guests on his show, all there to describe their "horror stories" about trying to sign up for ACA.

I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.

First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did.

There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That’s all.

Next I called Allison Denijs. She’d told Hannity that she pays over $13,000 a year in premiums. Like the other guests, she said she had recently gotten a letter from Blue Cross saying that her policy was being terminated and a new, ACA-compliant policy would take its place. She says this shows that Obama lied when he promised Americans that we could keep our existing policies.

Allison’s husband left his job a few years ago, one with benefits at a big company, to start his own business. Since then they’ve been buying insurance on the open market, and are now paying around $1,100 a month for a policy with a $2,500 deductible per family member, with hefty annual premium hikes. One of their two children is not covered under the policy. She has a preexisting condition that would require purchasing additional coverage for $600 a month, which would bring the family’s grand total to around $20,000 a year.

I asked Allison if she’d shopped on the exchange, to see what a plan might cost under the new law. She said she hadn’t done so because she’d heard the website was not working. Would she try it out when it’s up and running? Perhaps, she said. She told me she has long opposed Obamacare, and that the president should have focused on tort reform as a solution to bringing down the price of healthcare.

I tried an experiment and shopped on the exchange for Allison and Kurt. Assuming they don’t smoke and have a household income too high to be eligible for subsidies, I found that they would be able to get a plan for around $7,600, which would include coverage for their uninsured daughter. This would be about a 60 percent reduction from what they would have to pay on the pre-Obamacare market.

Allison also told me that the letter she received from Blue Cross said that in addition to the policy change for ACA compliance, in the new policy her physician network size might be reduced. That’s something insurance companies do to save money, with or without Obamacare on the horizon, just as they raise premiums with or without Obamacare coming.

If Allison’s choice of doctor was denied her through Obamacare then, yes, she could have a claim that Obamacare has hurt her. But she’d also have thousands of dollars in her pocket that she didn’t have before.

Finally, I called Robbie and Tina Robison from Franklin, Tenn. Robbie is self-employed as a Christian youth motivational speaker. (You can see his work here.) On Hannity, the couple said that they, too, were recently notified that their Blue Cross policy would be expiring for lack of ACA compliance. They told Hannity that the replacement plans Blue Cross was offering would come with a rate increase of 50 percent or even 75 percent, and that the new offerings would contain all sorts of benefits they don’t need, like maternity care, pediatric care, prenatal care and so forth. Their kids are grown and moved out, so why should they be forced to pay extra for a health plan with superfluous features?

When I spoke to Robbie, he said he and Tina have been paying a little over $800 a month for their plan, about $10,000 a year. And the ACA-compliant policy that will cost 50-75 percent more? They said this information was related to them by their insurance agent.

Had they shopped on the exchange yet, I asked? No, Tina said, nor would they. They oppose Obamacare and want nothing to do with it. Fair enough, but they should know that I found a plan for them for, at most, $3,700 a year, 63 percent less than their current bill. It might cover things that they don’t need, but so does every insurance policy.


http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

Imagine that! He had 3 couples on, and not a one had bothered to shop the exchange.


Always glad to help. So, it is, or is not, Hannity's and the GOP's fault Obamacare is not being used like Ed on MSNBC said?



< Message edited by Arturas -- 10/26/2013 11:51:29 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/26/2013 11:43:29 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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LOL I didnt expect much more from you.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/26/2013 11:56:50 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL I didnt expect much more from you.


What would you want me to say? I don't know this person you reference. The post does not seem to relate to my post very much, so I suppose I can only say, in the context of your post, that personally, I had Blue Cross PPO over the last fifteen years and lost it starting 2014 because premiums are going too high and was offered a lessor policy for the same price I paid last year for better. Is this because of Obamacare or just a coincidence? I don't know, I do know that MSNBC Mr. Ed claimed nobody was signing up because they are being scared off by the GOP in general and Hannity in particular with lies, lies and more lies. The Rev said so too. So, what does your long quote from a source I don't know have to do with this?

...and what are you doing up so late?

< Message edited by Arturas -- 10/26/2013 11:59:24 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 12:04:29 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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You can read all that I posted and NOT see the lies?

Can I please have a pair of your rose colored glasses?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 12:34:18 AM   
Extravagasm


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The families featured on the show must represent . . a slice of Hanninity's humanity LOL.

Appropriatness of ObamaCare was certainly weighted during the time Congress passed it, a good while ago. And required the Executive branch to begin implementation.

What we have now . . is those who believe in the Rule of Law . . and those who seem to have forsaken it ;)

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 2:41:53 AM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You can read all that I posted and NOT see the lies?

Can I please have a pair of your rose colored glasses?


While I decry Hannities sloppiness in vetting these people to present a story (if it occurred) Mr. Stern's rebuttal is in fact a lie.

He didn't secure quotes for actual plans, either. Rather, as it says in the fine print - he used a calculator on a website of a democrat organization. Which was based off of CBO estimates. Which used assumptions the democrats directed them to make. And has no bearing on what an actual policy would have cost.

So rather than provide actual quotes, as he claimed - he lied.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 2:46:12 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

The analysis showed huge variations among states: A family of four making $50,000 in Wyoming, for instance, would pay $1,237 a month on average for a midlevel plan before subsidies, compared to $584 a month on average in Tennessee. After subsidies are added in, however, the cost to both families would be $282 because the amount they pay is linked to their income, not to the cost of coverage.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2013/september/25/federal-exchange-rates-lower-than-expected.aspx



LOL.. this has already been debunked numerous times. For the younger brackets they presumed 27. For the older brackets(50+) they chose 50.

To say that that number is representative of the group as a whole is, well, a lie.

But, who ya gonna believe - a democratic ally (Kaiser) or the non partisan CBO.

Yeah. Tough call.


Who said it was representative of the group as a whole? Dont put words into my posts.

Considering the only person who discussed that particular insurance is close to that age group, its not irrelevant.


Ahem. You did. You presented these figures as being creditable, and relevant. They are neither.
These figures are *meaningless*.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 3:59:34 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Ahem. You did. You presented these figures as being creditable, and relevant. They are neither.
These figures are *meaningless*.


Have you verified them? Have you crunched the numbers? or are you allowing the talking heads to puppet you about?

Family of 4, Wyoming, 52, 45, 20, 14. annual income 50,000, cost (Per the link ABC gave - http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-pricing-feature-can-be-off-the-mark/ - I am sure you recognize that link since you provided it in another thread.)

Highest priced plan?

Marketplace BlueSelect Silver for Individuals and Families
Blue Cross Blue Shield of Wyoming

Deductible$2,500
Coinsurance25%
Out of Pocket Maximum$6,350 -
See more at: http://www.valuepenguin.com/ppaca/exchanges/wy#sthash.mXmQ6lz8.dpuf

Monthly Cost
$510.38
Premium: $1,785.81
Subsidy: $1,275.44

Lower plan?

WINhealth Silver
WINhealth Partners

Monthly Cost
$280.46
Premium: $1,555.90
Subsidy: $1,275.44

DeductibleData Not Available
CoinsuranceData Not Available
Out of Pocket MaximumData Not Available

Go ahead, crunch the numbers instead of blindly following another's talking points.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/27/2013 4:01:17 AM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 12:36:50 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Ahem. You did. You presented these figures as being creditable, and relevant. They are neither.
These figures are *meaningless*.


Have you verified them? Have you crunched the numbers? or are you allowing the talking heads to puppet you about?

Family of 4, Wyoming, 52, 45, 20, 14. annual income 50,000, cost (Per the link ABC gave - http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-pricing-feature-can-be-off-the-mark/ - I am sure you recognize that link since you provided it in another thread.)

Highest priced plan?

Marketplace BlueSelect Silver for Individuals and Families
Blue Cross Blue Shield of Wyoming

Deductible$2,500
Coinsurance25%
Out of Pocket Maximum$6,350 -
See more at: http://www.valuepenguin.com/ppaca/exchanges/wy#sthash.mXmQ6lz8.dpuf

Monthly Cost
$510.38
Premium: $1,785.81
Subsidy: $1,275.44

Lower plan?

WINhealth Silver
WINhealth Partners

Monthly Cost
$280.46
Premium: $1,555.90
Subsidy: $1,275.44

DeductibleData Not Available
CoinsuranceData Not Available
Out of Pocket MaximumData Not Available

Go ahead, crunch the numbers instead of blindly following another's talking points.



See, now you're moving the goal posts. And, for the record, I don't blindly follow anyones talking points. In fact, I have never read a set of talking points.

In the previous post you blithely quote "average rates" - knowing full well that average rates vary more than 300% by state and location.

Toss in whether or not the person is a smoker - gives you another 50% variation.

Toss in that subsidies can range from nothing to damn near all of it depending on income.

And, as I stated - the figures present in your original post were meaningless.

Its not just me saying this tazz - even liberals such as ezra klein acknowledge that the pricing info given out does not necessarily reflect the price the consumer will get.


As for your quote:
a). It is amusing that you cherry picked a data point. Ie, you chose a person that conformed to the assumptions.
I won't even push the envelope. How about you pick a person that is 64, male, and a smoker living in...colorado.
Single.

Or tell you what - to keep it an apples to apples comparison and make my point a little more obvious - keep it a family of 4.

Finally, I sincerely doubt you actually applied to the healthcare site, and entered the data. Since I tried 3 times today - and lo and behold - still crashing. So why don't you upload a screen shot?




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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 4:50:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

See, now you're moving the goal posts. And, for the record, I don't blindly follow anyones talking points. In fact, I have never read a set of talking points.


I back up my posts... and I am moving goal posts?

You know, that pesky post you claimed was irrelevant... is now a goal post?

quote:

In the previous post you blithely quote "average rates" - knowing full well that average rates vary more than 300% by state and location.


You mean the post that said the average rate... in Wyoming vs Tennessee. Thats what has you so upset? That someone actually took an average in a state and compared that average to another average in another state?

Oh my!

quote:

Toss in whether or not the person is a smoker - gives you another 50% variation.


Something that has been known all along.

quote:

Toss in that subsidies can range from nothing to damn near all of it depending on income.


Well, yeah, or do you want everyone's subsidized at the same rate? Sorta defeats the purpose no?

quote:

a). It is amusing that you cherry picked a data point. Ie, you chose a person that conformed to the assumptions.
I won't even push the envelope. How about you pick a person that is 64, male, and a smoker living in...colorado.


What is amazing is that you want to negate that post yet continue to argue the results that post proved by a source YOU provided.

Income for that 64 year old man who smokes and lives in Colorado?

quote:

Or tell you what - to keep it an apples to apples comparison and make my point a little more obvious - keep it a family of 4.


Ages, smokers, income?

quote:

Finally, I sincerely doubt you actually applied to the healthcare site, and entered the data. Since I tried 3 times today - and lo and behold - still crashing. So why don't you upload a screen shot?


I was basing that on the article YOU provided as proof that the healthcare.gov site is wrong. That isnt good enough for you? If not, why did you provide it as proof?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 6:52:49 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
What in the world are you talking about that healthcare.gov is wrong?

I don't understand then either what you mean - or what you are trying to prove.

Healthcare.gov is an abomination. It is expensive. It is difficult. It doesn't work. It won't hit enrollment targets by the enrollment dates.

There are thousands of things you could call it. But I don't understand the reference to calling it "wrong".


My objection to quoting rates has nothing to do with right or wrong. It has to do with:

a). When you present a rate, and say its for a male, age 52 - you are making it seem as this number is illustrative and useful. That if I were similar to this person, I could expect similar results. Nothing is further from the truth. The rates I get - can vary hugely, depending on my income, location, smoking status. The number is meaningless - and its *only* purpose is to get people to sign up.

b). The methology was chosen *deliberately* to lie, and to present obamacare in the best possible light. Rather than choosing a 57 year old - they chose a 50 year old. But even more than that - the assumptions that dictate the prices are hugely flawed.

The original "estimages" that were used to sell Obamacare are already wrong by 65%. And this is before the delay in the employer mandate. Before the no income verification. Before the failure of the spanish roll out. Costs are now over *double* what they were expected to be.

So again I say. Any presentation of costs based on CBO estimates are pure fairy tale.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 7:27:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

a). When you present a rate, and say its for a male, age 52 - you are making it seem as this number is illustrative and useful. That if I were similar to this person, I could expect similar results. Nothing is further from the truth. The rates I get - can vary hugely, depending on my income, location, smoking status. The number is meaningless - and its *only* purpose is to get people to sign up.


If you were 52, a nonsmoker and made the same amount of money, then I would hazard a guess, if we live in the same state, the costs may be extremely similar. Or is it you thought that the cost quoted would include everyone? That age didnt affect it? The charts on that have been out for almost a year now. Didnt look at any of those posts? Didnt listen to any of those reports?

Its been made obvious from the start, the less you make, the more in subsidies you get.

quote:

The original "estimages" that were used to sell Obamacare are already wrong by 65%. And this is before the delay in the employer mandate. Before the no income verification. Before the failure of the spanish roll out. Costs are now over *double* what they were expected to be.


Is it 50% more than the original insurance plan would have been? Which is how you are spinning this.

Or is it that it could be 50% more than what the industry and economists have averaged it out to be in the months leading to the rollout of the actual figures?

Now you are saying 65%....

Which is it?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 7:47:08 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

a). When you present a rate, and say its for a male, age 52 - you are making it seem as this number is illustrative and useful. That if I were similar to this person, I could expect similar results. Nothing is further from the truth. The rates I get - can vary hugely, depending on my income, location, smoking status. The number is meaningless - and its *only* purpose is to get people to sign up.


If you were 52, a nonsmoker and made the same amount of money, then I would hazard a guess, if we live in the same state, the costs may be extremely similar. Or is it you thought that the cost quoted would include everyone? That age didnt affect it? The charts on that have been out for almost a year now. Didnt look at any of those posts? Didnt listen to any of those reports?

Its been made obvious from the start, the less you make, the more in subsidies you get.

quote:

The original "estimages" that were used to sell Obamacare are already wrong by 65%. And this is before the delay in the employer mandate. Before the no income verification. Before the failure of the spanish roll out. Costs are now over *double* what they were expected to be.


Is it 50% more than the original insurance plan would have been? Which is how you are spinning this.

Or is it that it could be 50% more than what the industry and economists have averaged it out to be in the months leading to the rollout of the actual figures?

Now you are saying 65%....

Which is it?



Since you are not listening.

The costs to an individual are different than the costs to the country. The costs for Obamacare are now estimated to be 1.85 trillion. Well, to be fair, these are the estimated costs of the subsidies. That cost has doubled.

I have previously linked multiple sites that showed what the comparative costs were to individuals. Costs to women are up on average 65%. Costs to men 99%.

And its absolutely predictable that they would be. Obama care has guaranteed issuance, expanded services, community rating, and a (theoretically) expanded pool of users.

I know of no (serious) studies that show guaranteed issuance and community rating don't increase costs.

To give an example. In the state of Florida, the Miami Herald examined the price differential between expiring plans and Obamacare.

86% of the difference was guaranteed issuance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/27/2013 7:55:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Lets see, we had... how many people... accessing health care... who were paying... how much? 45 billion in 2008... just one year.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: obamacare 2 points up! - 10/28/2013 4:24:22 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
FR

The Hitler Parody hits Obamacare.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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