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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/27/2013 10:38:12 PM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

I love the NSA.

I love Obama.

Arturas does too.

Hear that, NSA? We are good Americans and support the right of our Government to listen in on us and our allies. Tell that to the I.R.S. too. We like them too.
What a wonderful country we live in. We also support the Teachers Unions and Reverend Wright, our President's spiritual teacher for most of his life all of which we do believe was in the U.S.
I also like what you are doing to the Marines dress cap, it is good that male and female marines wear the same uniform starting with their hats. Thank you, Great Leader.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/27/2013 10:40:12 PM

Esinn

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/26/nsa-surveillance-brazil-germany-un-resolution

This has been touched on, I believe - in this discussion. Possibly someone linked it and I missed it, occasionally I do such things. In light of NSA scandals, deception and lawlessness this is 2 days old - that is like years in normal terms.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 2:45:31 AM

Phydeaux

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I don't know why you want to block me - I mostly agree with you on the NSA.

It is illegal to spy on americans
and stupid to get caught spying on others.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 4:25:49 AM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I don't know why you want to block me - I mostly agree with you on the NSA.

It is illegal to spy on americans
and stupid to get caught spying on others.

I do not want to block you, I never really commented on who I wanted to block. It is not stupid to get caught spying on others - it is to the point where it could cost US trade deals. Brazil/Mexico who we were caught spying on and there is still no definitive outcome are responsible for providing an overwhelming amount of our oil. There is good evidence to suggest espionage was committed against Petrobras (shrug), it is one of the largest companies on the planet (typically coming at 30-34). Thinking of European nations. It makes enemies and makes future trade more difficult as well. Quite a few talks are up in the air as of this moment. Approaching 20 trillion in debt. I'd argue we can't afford to lose a penny. As you mentioned, we are close enough in agreement. So, I would rather not split public hairs over things like that. (Disagreement on international spying)

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 4:35:49 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

I love the NSA.

I love Obama.

Arturas does too.

Hear that, NSA? We are good Americans and support the right of our Government to listen in on us and our allies. Tell that to the I.R.S. too. We like them too.
What a wonderful country we live in. We also support the Teachers Unions and Reverend Wright, our President's spiritual teacher for most of his life all of which we do believe was in the U.S.
I also like what you are doing to the Marines dress cap, it is good that male and female marines wear the same uniform starting with their hats. Thank you, Great Leader.

Even I know the spying on Merkel started under Bush, or are you giving him a free pass ? Anyone who thinks any of this started under Obama needs to get a grip.

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Post #: 45

RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 5:09:42 AM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

I love the NSA.

I love Obama.

Arturas does too.

Hear that, NSA? We are good Americans and support the right of our Government to listen in on us and our allies. Tell that to the I.R.S. too. We like them too.
What a wonderful country we live in. We also support the Teachers Unions and Reverend Wright, our President's spiritual teacher for most of his life all of which we do believe was in the U.S.
I also like what you are doing to the Marines dress cap, it is good that male and female marines wear the same uniform starting with their hats. Thank you, Great Leader.

Even I know the spying on Merkel started under Bush, or are you giving him a free pass ? Anyone who thinks any of this started under Obama needs to get a grip.

Anyone who thinks this started under Bush needs bitch slapped up, put in 4 point restraints and shocked vigorously or possibly just a history lesson. Regardless of when this started there is no correlation of justification - meaning the date it started does not justify the means or current actions. It should have immediately stopped then when a constitutional scholar peace prize winner took the throne. IF you want to argue he did not know evidence goes both ways ATM. He does not and immediately must stop it or is as criminal if not worse.

All experts who do not economically benefit from the USG (monetarily or indirectly) agree that this has exponentially grown out of control under Obama and every day forward. Though I am aware of thousands of people on forums who are blaming Bush almost a decade later.

I voted for Obama in 2008 because I genuinely believed he would prosecute him for war crimes. To date if convicted and Ok'd by a judge, if on that jury I would vote execution. So, I am hardly a Bush/Republican defender. I am more 'progressive' than 'republican oppressive' with some libertarian thrown in. Just tossin that salad out there.

< Message edited by Esinn -- 10/28/2013 5:11:19 AM >

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 8:38:41 AM

MasterCaneman

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Information is addictive, and every President since Truman's gotten hooked on it. It all arises from the fact we got dragged into a war that ended up with the US becoming a superpower. Power is more addictive that information is, and once you have it, you don't want to relinquish it. This need is instilled in every occupant of the White House by the machine that generates and feeds off of both, the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

I don't like Obama, and he's done more with it than most, but at the same time, I don't blame him for it either. He entered office when the nation was fighting on two fronts, was(is) facing credible threats from any number of sources, and yes, sought to strengthen his domestic position as well. He's as corrupt as Bush, who was as corrupt as Clinton, and so on, and so on. Only their moment in history and awareness keeps them from being as scrutinized as GWB and Obama.

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Post #: 47

RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 8:51:45 AM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Information is addictive, and every President since Truman's gotten hooked on it. It all arises from the fact we got dragged into a war that ended up with the US becoming a superpower. Power is more addictive that information is, and once you have it, you don't want to relinquish it. This need is instilled in every occupant of the White House by the machine that generates and feeds off of both, the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

I don't like Obama, and he's done more with it than most, but at the same time, I don't blame him for it either. He entered office when the nation was fighting on two fronts, was(is) facing credible threats from any number of sources, and yes, sought to strengthen his domestic position as well. He's as corrupt as Bush, who was as corrupt as Clinton, and so on, and so on. Only their moment in history and awareness keeps them from being as scrutinized as GWB and Obama.

Terrorism has never been a credible threat to people living in the USA. Most likely it never will be either. You got one thing right though. This is not about NatSec(Security) , GWOT( Terror) or privacy. It is the US IC posturing for global information dominance.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 9:16:36 AM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Wow.... simply wow.

So you cannot back up the attack you made on me. Why then did you choose to attack me in the first place?

Am I missing something? Attack???

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 9:55:38 AM

MasterCaneman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Information is addictive, and every President since Truman's gotten hooked on it. It all arises from the fact we got dragged into a war that ended up with the US becoming a superpower. Power is more addictive that information is, and once you have it, you don't want to relinquish it. This need is instilled in every occupant of the White House by the machine that generates and feeds off of both, the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

I don't like Obama, and he's done more with it than most, but at the same time, I don't blame him for it either. He entered office when the nation was fighting on two fronts, was(is) facing credible threats from any number of sources, and yes, sought to strengthen his domestic position as well. He's as corrupt as Bush, who was as corrupt as Clinton, and so on, and so on. Only their moment in history and awareness keeps them from being as scrutinized as GWB and Obama.

Terrorism has never been a credible threat to people living in the USA. Most likely it never will be either. You got one thing right though. This is not about NatSec(Security) , GWOT( Terror) or privacy. It is the US IC posturing for global information dominance.

That made absolutely no sense. What was MAD other than institutionalized terror between two national entities? We've been subject to threats ranging from anarchist bomb-throwers at the turn of the 20th century all the way to the WTC. The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with "terror", and everything to do with the self-serving mechanisms that fuel the need for intelligence-gathering and it's effect on political leaders and systems.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 10:05:53 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Wow.... simply wow.

So you cannot back up the attack you made on me. Why then did you choose to attack me in the first place?

Am I missing something? Attack???

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4573401

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 10:07:14 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Information is addictive, and every President since Truman's gotten hooked on it. It all arises from the fact we got dragged into a war that ended up with the US becoming a superpower. Power is more addictive that information is, and once you have it, you don't want to relinquish it. This need is instilled in every occupant of the White House by the machine that generates and feeds off of both, the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

I don't like Obama, and he's done more with it than most, but at the same time, I don't blame him for it either. He entered office when the nation was fighting on two fronts, was(is) facing credible threats from any number of sources, and yes, sought to strengthen his domestic position as well. He's as corrupt as Bush, who was as corrupt as Clinton, and so on, and so on. Only their moment in history and awareness keeps them from being as scrutinized as GWB and Obama.

Terrorism has never been a credible threat to people living in the USA. Most likely it never will be either. You got one thing right though. This is not about NatSec(Security) , GWOT( Terror) or privacy. It is the US IC posturing for global information dominance.

There are thousands of dead Americans who would object that terrorism is not a credible threat to Americans.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 11:07:17 AM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Information is addictive, and every President since Truman's gotten hooked on it. It all arises from the fact we got dragged into a war that ended up with the US becoming a superpower. Power is more addictive that information is, and once you have it, you don't want to relinquish it. This need is instilled in every occupant of the White House by the machine that generates and feeds off of both, the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

I don't like Obama, and he's done more with it than most, but at the same time, I don't blame him for it either. He entered office when the nation was fighting on two fronts, was(is) facing credible threats from any number of sources, and yes, sought to strengthen his domestic position as well. He's as corrupt as Bush, who was as corrupt as Clinton, and so on, and so on. Only their moment in history and awareness keeps them from being as scrutinized as GWB and Obama.

Terrorism has never been a credible threat to people living in the USA. Most likely it never will be either. You got one thing right though. This is not about NatSec(Security) , GWOT( Terror) or privacy. It is the US IC posturing for global information dominance.

There are thousands of dead Americans who would object that terrorism is not a credible threat to Americans.

And that is a shame.

According to UNICEF around 4,000 children die each year from lack of access to clean water, that is a shame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXR4Z_NBD-E

In some places democratic women by the thousands are raped, beaten. fucked with sticks and killed - for being activists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IUDurAXEYw, and that is a shame too.

Though none of these are credible threats to Americans.

Terrorists need killed and tortured, they are bad people. One thing they are not is credible threats to American Citizens.

On another note.... After review it was suggested that Thinthread could have potentially stopped 9/11. But it was not expensive enough to justify unjustifiable budgets. So, the NSA opted to go with Trailblazer (partly because of cronyism too).....
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/ig-thinthread.pdf

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 11:29:01 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Information is addictive, and every President since Truman's gotten hooked on it. It all arises from the fact we got dragged into a war that ended up with the US becoming a superpower.

Not true. No one draged us we charged into it willingly,

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 11:42:12 AM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

There are thousands of dead Americans who would object that terrorism is not a credible threat to Americans.

(I am going to delete me initial reply unless you already responded)
You are a mathematician, right?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Or check the annual FBI crime statistics. There are things we as Americans need to fear which can cause us harm, death, pain or prolonged suffering.

Terrorists are evil, bad and psychotic people. They need killed and tortured. One thing they are not and it is a mathematical fact.... They are not a threat to Americans living in the USA. All terrorists combine on the planet kill about as many people as we kill here in the USA on an annual basis (12-13.5k annually)

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 11:44:56 AM

Esinn

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quote:

There are thousands of dead Americans who would object that terrorism is not a credible threat to Americans.

You now what, I just noticed the hide button. I will leave both posts stand. Just for future reference of those interested. While not blocked, all of your replies are now removed from my view. TTYL

(I am going to delete me initial reply unless you already responded)
You are a mathematician, right?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Or check the annual FBI crime statistics. There are things we as Americans need to fear which can cause us harm, death, pain or prolonged suffering.

Terrorists are evil, bad and psychotic people. They need killed and tortured. One thing they are not and it is a mathematical fact.... They are not a threat to Americans living in the USA. All terrorists combine on the planet kill about as many people as we kill here in the USA on an annual basis (12-13.5k annually)

< Message edited by Esinn -- 10/28/2013 11:51:42 AM >

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 12:52:55 PM

PeonForHer

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It *is* about getting caught, in the spying world. When French Secret Service agents got caught blowing up a Greenpeace ship, it was embarrassing, and embarrassment is the main thing in the world of modern-day espionage. The French overdo it - and consequently fuck up, as do the Americans, though the latter even more so. Frankly, I think it boils down to this: certain nations, people and organisations, have too much money and end up employing idiots who can't handle what tools they have at their disposal. Only a certain sort wants to work in the intelligence game and that's never the most intelligent sort, sadly.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 1:32:54 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

I love the NSA.

I love Obama.

Arturas does too.

Hear that, NSA? We are good Americans and support the right of our Government to listen in on us and our allies. Tell that to the I.R.S. too. We like them too.
What a wonderful country we live in. We also support the Teachers Unions and Reverend Wright, our President's spiritual teacher for most of his life all of which we do believe was in the U.S.
I also like what you are doing to the Marines dress cap, it is good that male and female marines wear the same uniform starting with their hats. Thank you, Great Leader.

Even I know the spying on Merkel started under Bush, or are you giving him a free pass ? Anyone who thinks any of this started under Obama needs to get a grip.

And anyone that thinks that "blame it on bush" is a legitimate defense for things blowing up 5 years into an Obama administration needs to get a bigger grip.

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 2:27:22 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

There are thousands of dead Americans who would object that terrorism is not a credible threat to Americans.

(I am going to delete me initial reply unless you already responded)
You are a mathematician, right?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Or check the annual FBI crime statistics. There are things we as Americans need to fear which can cause us harm, death, pain or prolonged suffering.

Terrorists are evil, bad and psychotic people. They need killed and tortured. One thing they are not and it is a mathematical fact.... They are not a threat to Americans living in the USA. All terrorists combine on the planet kill about as many people as we kill here in the USA on an annual basis (12-13.5k annually)

So your argument seems to be that if terror attacks do not make it onto the CDC list of top 10 causes of death in 2010 we should not take any action to prevent terror attacks? You cannot possibly be actually arguing that.

Edit: A Brave Sir Robin with a preemptive claim of blocking. Truly pathetic. Would anyone else offended by this person's dismissal of thousands of deaths do me a favor and quote this post so he cannot pretend to have not seen it.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 10/28/2013 2:29:29 PM >

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RE: bugging Angela Merkel's phone - 10/28/2013 5:30:58 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Anyone who thinks this started under Bush needs bitch slapped up, put in 4 point restraints and shocked vigorously or possibly just a history lesson. Regardless of when this started there is no correlation of justification - meaning the date it started does not justify the means or current actions. It should have immediately stopped then when a constitutional scholar peace prize winner took the throne. IF you want to argue he did not know evidence goes both ways ATM. He does not and immediately must stop it or is as criminal if not worse.

All experts who do not economically benefit from the USG (monetarily or indirectly) agree that this has exponentially grown out of control under Obama and every day forward. Though I am aware of thousands of people on forums who are blaming Bush almost a decade later.

I voted for Obama in 2008 because I genuinely believed he would prosecute him for war crimes. To date if convicted and Ok'd by a judge, if on that jury I would vote execution. So, I am hardly a Bush/Republican defender. I am more 'progressive' than 'republican oppressive' with some libertarian thrown in. Just tossin that salad out there.

Nothing you have said alters the fact that spying on Merkel started under Bush, as I stated. The fact Obama should have stopped it is a whole different debate.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/28/2013 5:33:33 PM >

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