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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 7:28:41 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
What's specifically is on the news that I'm missing ?

Maybe not missing, but ignoring the gravity of it because it is such an everyday event it misses the grey cells.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I refer you to post #91.
".............a little something called, "Situational Awareness" might be a good lesson before marksmanship.

There are some other kinds of non-PC things that can be taught and talked about as well to help them keep from becoming victims....."

Where you quoted me I said "there are other considerations that go hand in hand" to successfully defend yourself with a firearm. Some of them include things on avoiding having to use it. There are things that apply in or out of the home.

Then why is it that you and Bama and other pro-gunners are always responding with the rhetoric that more guns will save the day??
It's always your first response and you don't get round to other things until your arguments have proved to be futile and nonsensical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffinIf you don't have at least a little more common sense than what God gave a piss ant then a gun won't do you much good. I think you are deliberately trying to miss the point.

No, not deliberately.
Just that I don't see a sensible point to take any note of.



1) Ignoring the gravity of what exactly ?

2) You haven't proved the futality of anything. Your logic is what is nonsensical. You keep stating assailants always have the advantage. I've asked you more than once, how, if the victim is armed, is it advantageous for the assailant ? I mean if you have your .357 magnum in hand, how the fuck does the assailant have an advantage ? Explain it for once Mr expert.

3) You definitely miss the point. And furthermore, we don't want your UK gun laws that you constantly extol. They won't work here. It's a different place and a different culture. We have a choice in the US whether we want to be armed or not. If not, you're free to deal with a violent crime or its prevention anyway you like.



_____________________________

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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 7:53:35 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
1) Ignoring the gravity of what exactly ?

To the fact that gun deaths are such a horrendous crime to anyone that does not live in a pro-gun society.
The fact that the US have sooo many of them that it's an everyday occurence.
If I remember rightly, someone said that there are something like 49,000 gun deaths in the US every single day. Can't remember who right now as it was just after the Newtown tragedy, but it was splashed all across the world news channels.

We are told there are something like 110,000 killed in the Syrian war over the last two years.
That is indeed a terrible tragedy.
Put that into perspective - that is less than 3 day's worth of US gun deaths.
And yet you still advocate that a gun would cure the problem.
I don't see how yet another gun would.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
2) You haven't proved the futality of anything. Your logic is what is nonsensical. You keep stating assailants always have the advantage. I've asked you more than once, how, if the victim is armed, is it advantageous for the assailant ? I mean if you have your .357 magnum in hand, how the fuck does the assailant have an advantage ? Explain it for once Mr expert.

As I have pointed out several times...
Your assailant is prepared, probably armed, very alert and attentive.
Your average victim is just going about their normal business.
So, unless you are fully armed and living on your wits 24/7 with eyes up your ass, you will never be as prepared as your assailant is.
It really isn't rocket science to work that one out.

It's a bit like a sniper - ready and prepared (and usually hidden out of sight) to hit their target.
The target victim, even when fully protected, with armed guards and are prepared for an assassination attempt, still aren't as prepared as the sniper.
Same thing. Or can't you see that?
I doubt you can because all you can think is that if you have your gun you can splatter the perpetrator all over the walls before he can get at you.
Sorry, that only happens in comic books and Dirty Harry films.
That is why sooo many are still victims dispite all the guns and preparation - the assailant is much better prepared and geared-up mentally than their intended victims.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
3) You definitely miss the point. And furthermore, we don't want your UK gun laws that you constantly extol. They won't work here. It's a different place and a different culture. We have a choice in the US whether we want to be armed or not. If not, you're free to deal with a violent crime or its prevention anyway you like.

Whilst that may be true, maybe the likes of you and Bama should seriously think of a culture change.
Until you have lived in a gun-free society where you are 668x less likely to get killed and know that in general, you and your kids are safe without having to fortify the schools and shopping malls, you have no idea how free that actually feels.
Having lived on both sides of the pond, I can honestly say that I didn't feel safe in the US and even carrying a gun wouldn't have helped.
And no, I didn't miss the point. I'm putting a different point across that you cannot grasp.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 8:13:16 AM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well, it's confirmed that the demand for firearms is up in that area. Two of the wife's friends from out that way, including a European immigrant lady who has never touched a gun in her life, want me to teach them to use a shotgun.



That is great and all Rich, but a little something called, "Situational Awareness" might be a good lesson before marksmanship.

There are some other kinds of non-PC things that can be taught and talked about as well to help them keep from becoming victims.

I do hope that the shotgun stuff goes well.


I was waiting to see someone mention that. That's the problem and the solution all in one. This may be a roundabout reply, so bear with me here. Everyone here knows my position on firearms so I won't bother repeating it. It's not the presence or absence of weapons that's the issue. It's the general lack of awareness of one's surroundings that's a major factor. People have become so used to being the dominant species on this world they forget they're just as easily prey, and we have the double-contradiction of being the apex predator as well. Rape is nothing more than the hunting urge perverted by some internal or external stimuli on the subject. That's why they do it, and they take advantage of the fact that most people are blithely unaware of their surroundings.

Now, with that said, here's where the argument for more women to have carry permits and handguns comes in. Most states require a training regimen before the permit is issued. That's the important part, more so than the actual possession and carry of the weapon. I've seen a training session being held at the club I belong to, and most of the drills revolved around observation, awareness, and recognition of threats. By re-awakening the prey sense within the brain through this training, the potential prey (women) learn how to see things they might otherwise have missed.

The weapon is secondary at this point, the backup system. Let's face it, how many times have we seen some pretty young woman walking down the street with her eyes on a phone, or something similar? The problem is the overwhelming variety of stimuli we expose ourselves to, which makes us 'dull' our awareness so as not to overload ourselves mentally. Predators take note of things like this, both for their prey and potential witnesses. What the training does is force the student to start focusing on things again.

It's still necessary though. Avoidance tends to be stressed in good classes. To actually shoot is always taught as a last resort, both for legal and ethical grounds. The mere presence of a firearm alone does not give someone power, it's the knowledge of when, where, and how it is employed or not that does. It's the awareness that we don't live in a totally safe environment, and the predator that is the most dangerous is a member of our own species

I cannot speak for how a woman feels on this matter, as I don't have the foggiest idea of that kind of fear. I won't even begin to comment on how to 'keep' a rapist from doing what (invariably) he does-that's a huge area on its own. I have a couple ideas, but all are unworkable in society today and come with dangerous costs.

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Profile   Post #: 163
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 8:16:38 AM   
Lucylastic


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nope that 30 000, per year...have a look at the people who are watching for the news accounts, with a list of every death by gun(justified or not)
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html

You can also dl the CSV files which lists the deaths, their age, their location and the news article it came from(mostly local altho there are a few by MSM outlets)
Read the main page because it does give the disclaimers

http://slate-interactives-prod.elasticbeanstalk.com/gun-deaths/getCSV.php

TO be fair, no links to people who report having saved themselves or others by having a gun

But since I last posted this bit there have been this many deaths(two days) by guns reported by the media(there may be doubles, Im a bit busy right now to take them out. ) the multiple posts are for multiple murders in two cases

http://members.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-10-26/story/jacksonville-police-identify-man-slain-arlington
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/One-Man-Killed-in-Overnight-Shooting-229442151.html
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20131026/NEWS01/310260031/Man-79-shot-killed-Okemos-home-relative-custody
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/10/eastern_new_orleans_murder_vic_3.html
http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-news/2013/10/man_charged_in_fatal_shooting.html
http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/Madison-County-Boy-Dies-after-Possible-Accidental-Shooting-229419011.html
http://www.adn.com/2013/10/27/3145344/boy-6-fatally-shoots-girl-12-with.html
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/10/teen_killed_in_holly_grove_sat.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Two-killed-another-injured-in-overnight-shootings.html
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/10/58-year-old_man_dies_following.html
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/10/26/columbus-beechwood-fatal-shooting.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/three-people-wounded-one-fatally-shot-overnight-in-st-louis/article_3991a4df-24f0-534e-8872-1a184f77c6b8.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/dc-police-investigating-a-fatal-shooting-near-a-florida-avenue-nw-gas-station/2013/10/26/7fe72c44-3e46-11e3-b7ba-503fb5822c3e_story.html
http://www.startribune.com/local/east/229389611.html
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/One-Dead-One-Hurt-in-Early-Morning-Shooting-229373501.html
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/10/26/39-year-old-man-fatally-shot-on-norco-street/
http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2013/10/26/fatal-shooting-overnight-in-new-haven-3/
http://tbo.com/pinellas-county/clearwater-police-shoot-kill-armed-man-20131026/
http://tbo.com/ap/national/phoenix-police-five-people-found-shot-to-death-20131026/
http://tbo.com/ap/national/phoenix-police-five-people-found-shot-to-death-20131026/
http://tbo.com/ap/national/phoenix-police-five-people-found-shot-to-death-20131026/
http://tbo.com/ap/national/phoenix-police-five-people-found-shot-to-death-20131026/
http://tbo.com/ap/national/phoenix-police-five-people-found-shot-to-death-20131026/
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9302385
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/developing-investigation-in-giles-county/-/20128466/22652814/-/15fax7o/-/index.html
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/man-shot-multiple-time-dies-at-hospital/-/10131532/22655182/-/c7wnjdz/-/index.html
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9302826
http://blog.pe.com/breaking-news/2013/10/27/banning-police-officer-fatally-shoots-man-at-hotel/
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/tucson-police-release-names-in-apparent-murder-suicide/article_e8bccac8-3e58-11e3-a0e9-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/hallock-533264-wife-deputies.html
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/hallock-533264-wife-deputies.html
http://www.abqjournal.com/289154/abqnewsseeker/witness-car-chase-shots-fired-in-north-valley.html
http://www.wset.com/story/23799895/man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-giles-co
http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/Waco-police-seek-2-men-after-deadly-drug-deal-4930612.php?cmpid=hpts
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/one-person-dead-following-shooting-incident-in-west-palm-beach
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20131027/LOCAL/310279939/-1/LOCAL11
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Oxnard-Teen-Arrested-in-Mans-Shooting-Death-229480931.html
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/10/27/police-investigating-fatal-mount-oliver-home-invasion/
http://members.jacksonville.com/breaking-news/2013-10-27/story/police-involved-jacksonville-shooting-sunday-night-suspect-dead
http://www.adn.com/2013/10/27/3145742/xg.html
http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/10/27/3576365/1-killed-1-injured-in-home-invasion.html
http://www.whiotv.com/news/news/local/man-found-shot-head-boyer-street/nbZmt/
http://www.whiotv.com/news/news/crime-law/man-dead-after-leo-street-shooting/nbZcC/
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131027/METRO01/310270027/Sister-fatally-shoots-self-brother-dies-crash?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-2-shot-1-fatally-in-zion-house-party-20131027
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Two-killed-another-injured-in-overnight-shootings.html
http://www.wmctv.com/story/23799573/suspect-in-deadly-shooting-with-deputies-identified
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland/anne-arundel-county/3-dead-in-anne-arundel-county-murdersuicide/-/10137088/22656434/-/k5o3d5z/-/index.html
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland/anne-arundel-county/3-dead-in-anne-arundel-county-murdersuicide/-/10137088/22656434/-/k5o3d5z/-/index.html
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland/anne-arundel-county/3-dead-in-anne-arundel-county-murdersuicide/-/10137088/22656434/-/k5o3d5z/-/index.html
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/10/27/man-shot-dead-inside-home-in-upscale-yorba-linda/
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/10/27/suspect-fatally-shot-by-deputies-in-bellflower/
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2013/10/1-killed-6-injured-in-drive-by-shooting-at-halloween-party.html
http://wnep.com/2013/10/27/developing-coroner-and-state-police-investigation-in-forty-fort/
http://wnep.com/2013/10/27/developing-coroner-and-state-police-investigation-in-forty-fort/
http://www.wafb.com/story/23800959/two-dead-in-apparent-murdersuicide
http://www.wafb.com/story/23800959/two-dead-in-apparent-murdersuicide
http://www.abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=9302976
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/man-found-shot-to-death-on-sidewalk/nbZgx/
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/10/27/suspect-sought-in-dallas-homicide/
http://www.newson6.com/story/23800581/man-shot-killed-outside-tulsa-motel
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/27/fatal-shooting-victim-found-inside-parked-car-in-brooklyn/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-overnight-violence-oct-27-28-20131027

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 8:27:13 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I thought it was smart justice? They are letting Hubbart out in the same community he committed his crimes.

50% of Americans own guns.
He was convicted of 38 violent rapes.
He admitted to 41 rapes claiming 70 more were unreported.
Of the 111 people he raped, 55 of them are armed.
Of the 55 armed victims and their families, there has to be at least a dozen people gunning for him when he gets out.

I thought this was the ultimate justice. He will be facing up to what he had done, pay for it with his life and make his previous victims that eventually get to kill him feel much better.

Just saying.

If owning a gun was the answer & way to defend yourself.. and if 50% of those women he attacked had a gun in their household, why didn't they use the gun in the first place???

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 8:29:42 AM   
hlen5


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Maybe they got armed after the fact?

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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 8:38:13 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Now, with that said, here's where the argument for more women to have carry permits and handguns comes in. Most states require a training regimen before the permit is issued. That's the important part, more so than the actual possession and carry of the weapon. I've seen a training session being held at the club I belong to, and most of the drills revolved around observation, awareness, and recognition of threats. By re-awakening the prey sense within the brain through this training, the potential prey (women) learn how to see things they might otherwise have missed.

My sig line has 2 vids that 60 Minutes did which shows how gun owners freeze or are unable to shoot the shooter (before getting killed themselves) in an attack situation.. Here they are again..

Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, part 2

Some of these people train regularly also but as one of the people said, shooting at a target in a shooting range is totally different from reacting to a real life situation.. One person didn't even know that there was a second shooter (even tho he was right in front of him) in one of the "attacks".. Stress and panic and shock dramatically change a persons ability to react and how well they can defend themselves with a gun..

Imo, situational awareness is the most important defense.. I practice that whenever I am anywhere.. also, not showing fear or submissiveness.. looking dudes straight in the eye without wavering.. walking with purpose.. all that stuff to show you are not victim material..

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 8:50:13 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Maybe they got armed after the fact?

some perhaps but given the stats, many of those did have a gun when attacked.. I expect that some states require guns to be locked up when not used (which makes them useless if you cant get to them in time) and people feel safe in their home so I doubt they carry on their person, rather they take their gun off so again, likely are attacked before getting to their gun, or even worse, the attacker could get to their gun first.. In most articles where the victim shot the intruder, they heard the intruder breaking in.. this rapist in the article targeted homes with open garage doors, which would allow easy and quieter access so they might not have known he was in the house until they were grabbed by him..

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:04:00 AM   
BamaD


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If I remember rightly, someone said that there are something like 49,000 gun deaths in the US every single day. Can't remember who right now as it was just after the Newtown tragedy, but it was splashed all across the world news channels.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This shows how silly your sources are that would total 17,885,000 people killed every year by guns, or about 5% of the total population.
This absurdity alone explains your position.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/28/2013 9:07:32 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:07:00 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Maybe they got armed after the fact?

some perhaps but given the stats, many of those did have a gun when attacked.. I expect that some states require guns to be locked up when not used (which makes them useless if you cant get to them in time) and people feel safe in their home so I doubt they carry on their person, rather they take their gun off so again, likely are attacked before getting to their gun, or even worse, the attacker could get to their gun first.. In most articles where the victim shot the intruder, they heard the intruder breaking in.. this rapist in the article targeted homes with open garage doors, which would allow easy and quieter access so they might not have known he was in the house until they were grabbed by him..

In California even if you have a gun you have to make sure you can't use it.
Most states aren't that stupid.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/28/2013 9:08:14 AM >


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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:11:09 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

In California even if you have a gun you have to make sure you can't use it.
Most states aren't that stupid.

so then we see that owning a gun is not a very good solution to protecting yourself from this rapist (who lives in CA)..

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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:13:08 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
nope that 30 000, per year...have a look at the people who are watching for the news accounts, with a list of every death by gun(justified or not)

I stand corrected.
But even so.... that's a fucking huge number of deaths and the US doesn't even have a war going on in their country.
So I grant that that the average US gun deaths is 8 years worth of total Syrian war deaths.
That figure is just... so mind boggling!

And yet the pro-gunners don't seem to care that their own country is being ripped apart by gun deaths every single day as if it's nothing more than a parking violation.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/28/2013 9:18:37 AM >

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:13:58 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

In California even if you have a gun you have to make sure you can't use it.
Most states aren't that stupid.

so then we see that owning a gun is not a very good solution to protecting yourself from this rapist (who lives in CA)..

Nonsensical

_____________________________

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:16:19 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
nope that 30 000, per year...have a look at the people who are watching for the news accounts, with a list of every death by gun(justified or not)

I stand corrected.
But even so.... that's a fucking huge number of deaths and the US doesn't even have a war going on in their country.
So I grant that that the average US gun deaths is just 4 day's worth of total Syrian war deaths.
That figure is just... so mind boggling!

And yet the pro-gunners don't seem to care that their own country is being ripped apart by gun deaths every single day as if it's nothing more than a parking violation.


Your exaggeration of the problem by 12,250 to 1 does zero for your credibility.
Can you imagine what the response would be if I claimed that all the media had said there were only 6 gun deaths in the U S last year, it is the same distortion.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/28/2013 9:39:32 AM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:17:27 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Nonsensical

that is certainly how I see your posts, I am sure I am not the only one with that opinion either..

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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:22:09 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
nope that 30 000, per year...have a look at the people who are watching for the news accounts, with a list of every death by gun(justified or not)

I stand corrected.
But even so.... that's a fucking huge number of deaths and the US doesn't even have a war going on in their country.
So I grant that that the average US gun deaths is just 4 day's worth of total Syrian war deaths.
That figure is just... so mind boggling!

And yet the pro-gunners don't seem to care that their own country is being ripped apart by gun deaths every single day as if it's nothing more than a parking violation.


Your exaggeration of the problem by 12,250 to 1 does zero for your credibility.

Yep, my maths is crap today.
Even so, it's a fucking staggering amount even when compared to a world tragedy like Syria.
And you don't even have a war going on in your back yard!!

It's truly shameful that pro-gunners want to keep that figure going.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:41:36 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
Clearly they can't while this may be an alien thought to you the strong are responsible to protect the weak.

Does that include health care?

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:42:10 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
nope that 30 000, per year...have a look at the people who are watching for the news accounts, with a list of every death by gun(justified or not)

I stand corrected.
But even so.... that's a fucking huge number of deaths and the US doesn't even have a war going on in their country.
So I grant that that the average US gun deaths is just 4 day's worth of total Syrian war deaths.
That figure is just... so mind boggling!

And yet the pro-gunners don't seem to care that their own country is being ripped apart by gun deaths every single day as if it's nothing more than a parking violation.


Your exaggeration of the problem by 12,250 to 1 does zero for your credibility.

Yep, my maths is crap today.
Even so, it's a fucking staggering amount even when compared to a world tragedy like Syria.
And you don't even have a war going on in your back yard!!

It's truly shameful that pro-gunners want to keep that figure going.


Again a gross misrepresentation.
Nobody says that is good, and no matter how many times you repeat it does not make it true.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 9:49:58 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Now, with that said, here's where the argument for more women to have carry permits and handguns comes in. Most states require a training regimen before the permit is issued. That's the important part, more so than the actual possession and carry of the weapon. I've seen a training session being held at the club I belong to, and most of the drills revolved around observation, awareness, and recognition of threats. By re-awakening the prey sense within the brain through this training, the potential prey (women) learn how to see things they might otherwise have missed.

My sig line has 2 vids that 60 Minutes did which shows how gun owners freeze or are unable to shoot the shooter (before getting killed themselves) in an attack situation.. Here they are again..

Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, part 2

Some of these people train regularly also but as one of the people said, shooting at a target in a shooting range is totally different from reacting to a real life situation.. One person didn't even know that there was a second shooter (even tho he was right in front of him) in one of the "attacks".. Stress and panic and shock dramatically change a persons ability to react and how well they can defend themselves with a gun..

Imo, situational awareness is the most important defense.. I practice that whenever I am anywhere.. also, not showing fear or submissiveness.. looking dudes straight in the eye without wavering.. walking with purpose.. all that stuff to show you are not victim material..

And that was the point I was trying to make. I don't doubt for a second the veracity of people freezing up and that there's a huge gulf between the sanitized target range and gritty reality. I always used to roll my eyes when I heard a young woman saying she carried a knife for protection, without realizing what she'd have to do to actually "protect" herself with it. The training for concealed-carry is the salient point, not the weapon itself. It serves an important role, but only when all the other measures have been exhausted or defeated.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/28/2013 10:14:52 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

In California even if you have a gun you have to make sure you can't use it.
Most states aren't that stupid.

so then we see that owning a gun is not a very good solution to protecting yourself from this rapist (who lives in CA)..

But then you have shot down virtually every other type of self defense.
May be a surprise to you but there are criminals in states that do not have pro criminal laws like CA, were having a means to self defense is not so inhibited.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 180
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