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RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:08:51 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In this country more crimes are prevented with guns than are committed with them, and clearly you are.

Citation please??
Because we don't hear that on any of that in the news we see over here - including US news channels.



And read this while you are at it.
www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm

News media lol
example on the same day in LA one man shot an adult and two children, we heard about it every 30 minutes for the next 3 days.
On the same day a man deliberately ran his car through a daycare playground killing 5 children.
It was relegated to one mention on page 5 electronic "news media" never even mentioned it.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:09:38 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In this country more crimes are prevented with guns than are committed with them, and clearly you are.

Citation please??
Because we don't hear that on any of that in the news we see over here - including US news channels.



The same doj figures you were so proud of if you hadn't been cherry picking to prove a point that is wrong.

I didn't quote the figures... tj did.
I still don't see a quoted source - just your rhetoric.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:14:29 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		NO they dont...
the only person to make that claim was Kleck in which out of 5000 epople 55 said they had used their guns to prevent a crime, back in 93

The DOJ has said nothing of the kind
Unless you have that handy thing called a link

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:14:57 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In this country more crimes are prevented with guns than are committed with them, and clearly you are.

Citation please??
Because we don't hear that on any of that in the news we see over here - including US news channels.



And read this while you are at it.
www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm

News media lol
example on the same day in LA one man shot an adult and two children, we heard about it every 30 minutes for the next 3 days.
On the same day a man deliberately ran his car through a daycare playground killing 5 children.
It was relegated to one mention on page 5 electronic "news media" never even mentioned it.


I checked the link.
It says "Posted for Educational use only" and is dated 1995.
It's pretty old, incomplete, and a pro-gun report.

As for the media coverage, don't you think the media is trying to tell you that guns are a problem and not a solution by hi-lighting the gun crime??


ETA: The bold and italics are part of the report - not mine.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/27/2013 6:17:48 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:24:54 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

NO they dont...
the only person to make that claim was Kleck in which out of 5000 epople 55 said they had used their guns to prevent a crime, back in 93

The DOJ has said nothing of the kind
Unless you have that handy thing called a link

Wrong as usual actually it was the FBI and many others which I have posted in the past if you guys can't see the point why bother with doing it again and again and ............

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:26:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In this country more crimes are prevented with guns than are committed with them, and clearly you are.

Citation please??
Because we don't hear that on any of that in the news we see over here - including US news channels.



And read this while you are at it.
www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm

News media lol
example on the same day in LA one man shot an adult and two children, we heard about it every 30 minutes for the next 3 days.
On the same day a man deliberately ran his car through a daycare playground killing 5 children.
It was relegated to one mention on page 5 electronic "news media" never even mentioned it.


I checked the link.
It says "Posted for Educational use only" and is dated 1995.
It's pretty old, incomplete, and a pro-gun report.

As for the media coverage, don't you think the media is trying to tell you that guns are a problem and not a solution by hi-lighting the gun crime??


ETA: The bold and italics are part of the report - not mine.

It was current enough for Newsweek.
And Kleck was anti gun before doing the study.
I think they are anti gun because they are pro government control. Don't protect yourself let the government do it for you.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/27/2013 6:27:21 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:33:57 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Im just calling you on your BS, which you cant back up... not wont
CANT

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 6:36:12 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		There is one group that is overwhelmingly but not exclusively targeted for rape, and that is women.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


teens, young people and children are most vulnerable to rape & the most defenseless..


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:08:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		FR

What happens when we get rid of guns


Four Mississippi teenagers have been charged with murder in the killing of a beloved World War II veteran who gained local fame for his home-cooked hot tamales.

The long and lustrous life of Lawrence “Shine” Thornton, 87, was celebrated last week during a ceremony at St. Joseph Catholic Church. Following the ceremony, Thornton was buried with military honors at Greenlawn Memorial Gardens.

Thornton died Oct. 20, succumbing to the injuries he sustained after four teenagers "pushed him down and stole his wallet," during an apparent mugging that occurred in the late-afternoon two days earlier in the driveway of his long-time Greenville home.

Meanwhile, Greenville Assistant Police Chief Andrew Kaho told the Delta Democrat Times that Terrance Morgan, 19; Edward Johnson, 19; Leslie Litt, 18; and Geblonski Murray, 18; were all arrested Monday, and charged with capital murder, robbery and conspiracy to commit robbery.

And although little is known about the specifics of the run-in that cost Thornton his life, much has reportedly been said about the apparently momentous loss to the delta community.



"We all caught our breath, held our hearts, and said a prayer for our dear friend Shine.”

- Southern Foodways Alliance’s


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:10:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the only person to make that claim was Kleck

In January 2013, President Barack Obama issued 23 executive orders directing federal agencies to improve knowledge of the causes of firearm violence... One of these orders directed the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to, along with other federal agencies, immediately begin identifying the most pressing problems in firearm violence research...

The result, published by the National Academies Press, was:

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

Which found and reported...

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year -- in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008. ~p.15

Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies. ~p. 15-16

K.



(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:12:17 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		No I didn't say he would have been ok if he had been armed but if they had broken in and faced a shotgun wouldn't they have thought twice.
And it demonstrates how much the criminal advantage increases when you make it safe for them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:14:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the only person to make that claim was Kleck

In January 2013, President Barack Obama issued 23 executive orders directing federal agencies to improve knowledge of the causes of firearm violence... One of these orders directed the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to, along with other federal agencies, immediately begin identifying the most pressing problems in firearm violence research...

The result, published by the National Academies Press, was:

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

Which found and reported...

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year -- in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008. ~p.15

Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies. ~p. 15-16

K.




Don't you know that any survey that does not say we must outlaw firearms is merely pro gun drivel, ask anyone who thinks they get a fair assessment of the issue from CNN

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:18:24 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		im reading it now, try it....it actually has a LOT more to say on the subject, than you cherry picked




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:20:37 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		And page 16(relative to the "quotes"




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:20:53 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

There is one group that is overwhelmingly but not exclusively targeted for rape, and that is women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
teens, young people and children are most vulnerable to rape & the most defenseless..



blah, blah, blah..

"44% of victims are under age 18
Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance
Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault."

http://www.rainn.org/statistics

Once again I ask.. how are those under the age allowed to legally buy a gun supposed to defend themselves if the answer to protection is a gun?

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:21:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im just calling you on your BS, which you cant back up... not wont
CANT

I have done so time after time you just won't accept it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:21:43 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Don't you know that any survey that does not say we must outlaw firearms is merely pro gun drivel, ask anyone who thinks they get a fair assessment of the issue from CNN

At least K gave me a link
Something you cant

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:28:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

There is one group that is overwhelmingly but not exclusively targeted for rape, and that is women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
teens, young people and children are most vulnerable to rape & the most defenseless..



blah, blah, blah..

"44% of victims are under age 18
Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance
Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault."

http://www.rainn.org/statistics

Once again I ask.. how are those under the age allowed to legally buy a gun supposed to defend themselves if the answer to protection is a gun?

Clearly they can't while this may be an alien thought to you the strong are responsible to protect the weak.
And nobody said it was the only solution awareness, a big dog, and when all else fails a gun.
Who said it would end all crime, nobody.
Who said it was a panacea for all evils, nobody.
Who said that since it isn't the whole picture of making you safe that no one should have a gun, everyone in this thread who isn't part of this society ( and thus not their concern) and you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:41:08 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

There is one group that is overwhelmingly but not exclusively targeted for rape, and that is women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
teens, young people and children are most vulnerable to rape & the most defenseless..



blah, blah, blah..

"44% of victims are under age 18
Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance
Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault."

http://www.rainn.org/statistics

Once again I ask.. how are those under the age allowed to legally buy a gun supposed to defend themselves if the answer to protection is a gun?

Clearly they can't while this may be an alien thought to you the strong are responsible to protect the weak.
And nobody said it was the only solution awareness, a big dog, and when all else fails a gun.
Who said it would end all crime, nobody.
Who said it was a panacea for all evils, nobody.
Who said that since it isn't the whole picture of making you safe that no one should have a gun, everyone in this thread who isn't part of this society ( and thus not their concern) and you.

of course the strong should protect the weak but rape isn't very often a public event where the strong could have stopped it but didn't.. this may be an alien thought to you but rape tends to be done in private settings with no one else around to help those being attacked..

44% are under the age of 18.. that is a huge percentage of the total that are raped, yet they are ignored by the pro-gun group.. when a female gets to the age that they can legally own a gun, the majority of the danger is gone simply cuz by then they are more knowledgeable about how to avoid becoming a victim.. and usually cuz by then they have already been one.. so at that point, owning a gun isn't that much of a protection, assuming you can even get to the gun before your attacker can..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: One reason an American might wish to own a gun... - 10/27/2013 7:42:33 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Hey, Lucy? Will you be taking up the question that seems to terrify so many? Maybe I missed it among the cluttering clamor of those who wish to distract from it?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 140
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