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RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 3:30:48 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: singlemaltlady
I don't see what you are seeing. How is the OP violating anyone here?

I think it's a worthwhile skill to be highly attuned to responsibility-acceptance vs. responsibility-avoidance. This is useful in lots of contexts, but specifically when it comes to sex, I believe this is the key to the vast majority of rapes. Most rapes are not Central Park jogger nightmares, but, rather, are acts that "otherwise good kids" do when they are no longer responsible for their sexual desire. Who's responsible instead? The woman -- whether it's the girl's fault for drinking in Steubenville, or the culture of Eve Teasing in India. In fact, I think this is the core of "rape culture": who gets stuck with responsibility when the chips are down?

The OP of this thread is engaging in a fair amount of responsibility-avoidance. Example: how hard would it have been to say something like, "My bad for not explaining myself better, but damn, you guys were rough on me." Both admitting he screwed up, and still expressing that he didn't appreciate the posts on the thread. But the OP accepted no responsibility for the direction the thread went. Other example: writing a book on a topic when you don't understand the topic. That's the behavior of a charlatan, frankly -- not someone who accepts responsibility for his (hopefully temporary) ignorance.

So, regarding violation: let's say something goes down. Do you want someone who will say, "I'm responsible for whatever happens," or someone who will say, "You're responsible if things break bad." ???

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to singlemaltlady)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 4:31:02 PM   
singlemaltlady


Posts: 38
Joined: 10/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: singlemaltlady
I don't see what you are seeing. How is the OP violating anyone here?

I think it's a worthwhile skill to be highly attuned to responsibility-acceptance vs. responsibility-avoidance. This is useful in lots of contexts, but specifically when it comes to sex, I believe this is the key to the vast majority of rapes. Most rapes are not Central Park jogger nightmares, but, rather, are acts that "otherwise good kids" do when they are no longer responsible for their sexual desire. Who's responsible instead? The woman -- whether it's the girl's fault for drinking in Steubenville, or the culture of Eve Teasing in India. In fact, I think this is the core of "rape culture": who gets stuck with responsibility when the chips are down?

The OP of this thread is engaging in a fair amount of responsibility-avoidance. Example: how hard would it have been to say something like, "My bad for not explaining myself better, but damn, you guys were rough on me." Both admitting he screwed up, and still expressing that he didn't appreciate the posts on the thread. But the OP accepted no responsibility for the direction the thread went. Other example: writing a book on a topic when you don't understand the topic. That's the behavior of a charlatan, frankly -- not someone who accepts responsibility for his (hopefully temporary) ignorance.

So, regarding violation: let's say something goes down. Do you want someone who will say, "I'm responsible for whatever happens," or someone who will say, "You're responsible if things break bad." ???


Assuming the OP is truthful, it is not irresponsible to gather information, make a mistake, garner feedback on writing skills or on the topic at hand. This is not a published guide. This is someone who is working on it. They don't have to get it right in the first draft. I don't see a lack of responsibility here. Perhaps inept with lots to learn, but that's how all writers start. By the time it is finished, the writer is changed.

If "something were to happen," - do you mean if someone reads something and acts on it? The person who acts is responsible.

As for rape culture, the most dangerous place on the planet for women and girls is the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Verify through Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International or Hope for the Congo. There, boy soldiers are given Viagra by the commanders so that they can implement a 3 day rape campaign of over 300 women. Why? To destroy them enough so they will move. Their village is in the way of the mines (where they get minerals for our cell phones and laptops). It's about money and the females are just a thing (object to be used) that get in their way. That is not about sex. However, there is an added cultural harm there because once a woman is raped, her husband is disgraced into fleeing. Also, they like to bayonet the women so that they cannot reproduce and they will leak urine, get infected and die a painful death. I'm not sure where you got the impression that most rapes are perpetrated by irresponsible young people. Kind of reminds me of the myth that bad people have bad looks, hygiene, etc... total misnomer.

OP - I do laud your attempt to add to the information available to others.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 4:44:51 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Wow. You moved the goalposts quite a bit there. I didn't even realize I was in the middle of an internet argument.

The context of this thread -- and this site -- is consensual dating, especially in countries where there is a fair amount of internet access. Further, there is extensive research that shows men are more likely to rape if they think women are responsible for the act. Also, there are factoids like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251040/Rape-Its-fault-victims-say-50-women.html

So my focus was, and is, on major industrial countries, esp. the US and the UK. War rape (the technical term for what you describe) is a different phenomenon.

I'm about to meet a lady for dinner, so I'm off the thread.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to singlemaltlady)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 5:30:04 PM   
singlemaltlady


Posts: 38
Joined: 10/22/2013
Status: offline 		RM1 My points are more of a correction than an argument along with sources to find accurate information. And, I wrote it more for all readers, especially the OP.

The DRC has been a post-conflict area for years and receives rebuilding funds based on the designation of "peaceful." The femicide is not a war issue there any more than it is anywhere else. The women don't count when peace negotiations are underway or when the U.N. makes these funding decisions. RM1, your mistake of calling it war stuff shows me that you think femicide is war! I agree.

I read the article you posted. It says that vast majority of women do NOT blame other women for their own rapes, although the writer chose to focus on the tiny minority of those who do. Not everyone is intelligent or educated. No news there.

OP, you see what happened here. It is very important to use verifiable facts and not to lean on opinion(s). This researcher, writer on women's sexuality and on political and violent sieges against women, offers some insight on safety, sexuality and oppression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_Hating

< Message edited by singlemaltlady -- 10/27/2013 5:46:12 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 6:53:51 PM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AussieinDubai

I am writing a "Guide to BDSM", which began as an overview of BDSM I wrote for curious vanilla folk, which has now turned into a much larger book. I am including a chapter for novice subs, with a lot of information on safety, how to handle the first meeting, and the danger signs to look out for. Can anyone think of anything that I should include? What should set the alarm bells off?


So you have one chapter for novice subs in Dubai, or is the whole book for curious expats in Dubai?

Seriously?

Where are you going to sell it? And how many expat kinksters do you think there are in Dubai... ones who know less than you about BDSM, and know less than you about the risks of meeting someone from online for kink?

How are these curious vanilla folk in Dubai supposed to find your book? And if non kinksters can find it, don't you think the police can too? You'd be inciting criminal behavior and you have no way of knowing if there is even a demand for such a book there.

Firt rule of writing: Write about that which you know.
Somehow I think the UAE angle came up because you were confronted with wanting to give advice in an area that you know nothing about.

cynically yours.....


edit: typos

< Message edited by evesgrden -- 10/27/2013 6:55:25 PM >

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

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RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 7:42:26 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		ahhh....another white knight to the rescue.

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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 8:31:52 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AussieinDubai
I am writing a "Guide to BDSM", which began as an overview of BDSM I wrote for curious vanilla folk, which has now turned into a much larger book. I am including a chapter for novice subs, with a lot of information on safety, how to handle the first meeting, and the danger signs to look out for. Can anyone think of anything that I should include? What should set the alarm bells off?

What I find most alarming is that 50 Shades of Grey was so successful it inspired a fucking inexperienced idiot noob tourist to turn to the internet for instant info so they can push off a book in a market genre they know nothing about. Good luck in Dubai, I hear they really fuck up deviates, perverts and kinksters in the United Arab of Emirates. Can't imagine why you would want to go public there.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 8:39:41 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: singlemaltlady


Assuming the OP is truthful, it is not irresponsible to gather information, make a mistake, garner feedback on writing skills or on the topic at hand.




You don't think it is irresponsible for someone who has proven himself inept at communication to write a guide for women to follow, when his lack of communication skills could well end up with these women in dire straits? In places where they could find themselves publicly stripped and flogged?

You don't think it is irresponsible for him not to accept any criticism as valid?

Because I don't see anything good occurring as a result of someone with this level of arrogance and lack of communication skills advising others on how to avoid problems.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to singlemaltlady)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/27/2013 9:28:09 PM   
sheisreeds


Posts: 578
Joined: 7/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: singlemaltlady

The "shower of abuse" is definitely a favorite of some posters here. My first advice to a new poster is that they should read the forums for a few weeks before posting anything. In that way, they can see who habitually tries to lift themselves up by stepping on others. Some just criticize the person for asking a question. Some think that because therapy worked for them, that it's the great panacea for all. Some are ignorant, rude and limited in their views. There are some who are so empty, they say they are in a relationship (and the poster is not, or worse, just had their heart broken) and therefore, they are healthier (superior) to the OP.


Cute. I've been around this forum for a few years now, and the large majority of those of us who "shower the abuse" with actually a fair amount of restraint, and it is reserved to when the OP is not genuine. I have no problems getting snarky when the person posting is often down right scary.

Also. The majority of us who engage in the shower of abuse also provide genuine and thoughtful responses where they are due.

Most of the showerers also tend to be some of the more open minded, experienced, and well versed members of this forum, who are just sick of pretend, and the bullshit.

That being said, OP I have plenty I could say on this topic, but I won't help since I don't want to aid in your project. If it ever happens I fear the information would be poorly represented due to lack of experience of the author, or be used for less than genuine purposes. I agree with the other regular posters.

_____________________________

~ s.

Oh my darling, give me reason
give me something to believe in


You need a spankin' baby!

(in reply to singlemaltlady)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 3:21:42 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

ahhh....another white knight to the rescue.


If you're referring to my post you're quite mistaken. I just read RS and thought it was the non-diplomatic version of what I said.



_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 3:44:53 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		I think it was a fast reply to the OP.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to evesgrden)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 5:23:07 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Out of curiosity, singlemaltlady, when I said "there is extensive research that shows men are more likely to rape if they think women are responsible for the act," did you think I was just blowing smoke? Because I wasn't. For example, here's a review of multiple rape studies that explicitly states in the abstract that men who rape are more likely to see women responsible for the rape.

http://dare.uva.nl/document/19409

Also, I found your take on the Daily Mail article I posted a bit strange. It's the Daily Mail, so should be assumed false, I agree. I posted it more as an example of cultural context than fact, which is why I called it a "factoid." However, the article refers to the Wake Up to Rape Report from 2010, the summary of which is available for free here:

http://www.vawpreventionscotland.org.uk/sites/default/files/Havens_Wake_Up_To_Rape_Report_Summary.pdf

Pages 8-10 of the report summary deal with questions about who bears responsibility for rape.

Are you now going to tell me I'm still just working off opinion, by invoking "femicide" and posting another link to a Wikipedia article?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to singlemaltlady)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 8:22:14 AM   
AussieinDubai


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline 		To clear things up: I am helping to write a document which is intended for Westerners living or planning to live in Muslim countries. There are often a clash of cultures and westerners will often get into legal difficulties. It is not intended to show disrespect to Islam or Middle Eastern countries. Neither is it going to be sold as a commercial publication, and is purely non profit. Sex outside of marriage is illegal in most Muslim countries, and by claiming rape, or abuse, a woman is declaring officially that she has broken the law, and the Police have no choice but to charge her. Women are being deliberately targeted by people who may call themselves “Doms”, and they are being abused in the knowledge that the “Dom” is very unlikely to be prosecuted. In one case we represented we we able to whisk the woman straight to the airport as soon as she was released from hospital, and in another we negotiated for the charges to be dropped on condition of deportation.

If you want to accuse me of being a “White Knight”, I am guilty as charged and proud of it.

In addition, we now have cases of Western men, who are baited with so called “subs”, and who are then threatened with blackmail, and are forced to hand over cash, or act as mules to smuggle currency into the West. Quality material comes directly from people who have personal experience, or experts in their field and know what they are talking about, and most information on the net is unsubstantiated and cannot be verified. I have sought information from lawyers, police, experts on Arabic culture, internet experts, journalists, prostitutes and expats with long experience in living in the Middle East. Virtually everyone asked has given information freely, and the most negative reaction I had was a polite decline. I am not an expert on BDSM, the same way that I am not an expert on most of the areas I have researched. That's why I made the mistake of asking a straightforward question on collarchat. Perhaps I should have given a long winded explanation of what I am trying to achieve.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 8:38:09 AM   
Blonderfluff


Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AussieinDubai

Thanks for the shower of abuse. Under the laws of the U.A.E., if a woman goes to the police complaining of something that might have been done, she will be immediately charged with adultery, which is illegal here. Unless she can find four Muslim men to testify on her behalf, she will certainly be facing a jail sentence. The guide I was writing is intended specifically for Westerners living in Muslim countries, as I can't find anything online or in the book collection to cover this specific situation.

I am also doubtful that this is actually a tome you are working on. Any idea how difficult it would be to,not only publish it in the proper language, but how incredibly dangerous it would be to distribute??

Salman Rushdie comes to mind.

_____________________________

Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.



I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to AussieinDubai)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 9:00:15 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		This is remarkably easy.
1. Be married to your sexual partner.
2. Don't stray.
3. Do not travel without a companion.
4. Do not report a rape.
5. Leave the country and return to your western origins if you want to reclaim your sexuality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AussieinDubai

To clear things up: I am helping to write a document which is intended for Westerners living or planning to live in Muslim countries.



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to AussieinDubai)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 9:06:01 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AussieinDubai
Perhaps I should have given a long winded explanation of what I am trying to achieve.

In all sincerity, I think you would have been better off.

I'm kind of wondering if you're attempting to work above your pay grade. That's not an insult. It would be above My pay grade too, and I've been involved in BDSM for a decade and a half. I'd be woefully ill-informed of the legal ramifications of practicing kink in the U.A.E. and frankly, that certainly sounds like the more pressing issue. Personally, if I were visiting, I'd probably put My kink on hold because it doesn't really sound like there is a recourse against "dangerous" anybody other than don't engage.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AussieinDubai)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 5:01:33 PM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline 		I'm with LP on this.

The government and Sharia law is as much or more of a threat than anyone you'd meet online, how to conduct a first meet (although why that would be different in the UAE than anywhere else I don't know).

What sets off alarm bells... when in Rome do as the Romans do. You're wanting to give novice subs advice on safety. How do you avoid getting stoned to death. That's the question.

So you've gotten all kinds of expert advice for curious vanilla folks who may go to Muslim country?

If you're curious vanilla, or a novice why the fuck would you begin to experiment in a muslim country of all places, where religion and the government will happily show you what real punishment is.

Right.. go tell folks how to do it safely, and worst case scenario they'll learn about real cages and snuff scenes.

What sets off alarm bells? People like you. This isn't about insulting you, but what you're attempting to do is dangerous and will put more people at risk than it will help.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 5:43:33 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden
This isn't about insulting you, but what you're attempting to do is dangerous and will put more people at risk than it will help.


My gut is saying the same thing. This is one of those things where it's best to leave the advice to someone that has way more experience. The penalty for failure is just way too high.

This website is primarily North America, it may be better to seek a website that centers around an area closer to UAE.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 6:19:47 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		And since he already knows there are major legal ramifications, why come here for advice instead of consulting a lawyer there?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Dangerous Doms? - 10/28/2013 7:25:10 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

ahhh....another white knight to the rescue.


If you're referring to my post you're quite mistaken. I just read RS and thought it was the non-diplomatic version of what I said.




Sorry, not you. It was a fast reply late at night. UGH. I meant the op who seems to be a typical white knighter to the rescue. Only this time he won't be rescuing them. He will be helping to persecute them.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to evesgrden)
Profile   Post #: 40
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