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RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/3/2006 4:55:57 PM

suggababy23

Posts: 73
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

Ohh thank you everyone!!

I couldn't begin to tell you how surprised and happy I am to get all the replies to my question. I was afraid I was going to peek back and get a reply like "get over it". I have recently gone to my first community meeting and I am trying to learn as much as I can, from as many different sources as I can and to hear that, really put a stumbling block in my path. I had even thought of just giving it up. I would love to meet a man who enjoys a woman who has an opinion. I always try to be respectful when I convey it and it's my hope that I would meet a man who would put me back into my place if I ever did step outside of the limits. I do enjoy who I am and wouldn't want to be anyone else. Well maybe Beyonce, she has the best figure ever, but mentally, nope, no one comes to mind. I just started to wonder if maybe it was me but now that I have had a little time to think and let the hurt pass, I think perhaps it was for the best.

(in reply to untamedshysub)

Post #: 41

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/3/2006 9:04:15 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

only weak people need to make others feel small by belittling who they are. Be true to yourself because in the end that is all you have. You have to look yourself in the mirror every day. Do you want to like what you see, or see the Ghost of who you were?

WTF are you talking about untamed?

(Was that Nietzsche?)

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 7/3/2006 9:12:40 PM >

(in reply to untamedshysub)

Post #: 42

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/3/2006 11:07:12 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

People will tell you that you aren't a "true sub" based on anything they think they can use as leverage against you, usually to shame you into getting what they want.

Decide what works for you, not what someone is trying to shame you into accepting.

LOL LA... so true...

Many a times i've been told i'm unowned because i'm way too dominant to be submissive... and i so have to laugh. Because i'm too out spoken in telling someone just what i think of certain things. I am far from being a doormat. Wipe ones feet on me... and i'll leave claw marks.

You just keep learning... seeing what you are really made of... be yourself...and tell anyone who doesn't like it.. to kiss your ass... (others will tell you to do it politely though)....LOL

I may not be owned... but it's of my own choice... not because of not having offers. So stay true to yourself... and you'll find yourself enjoying your submission even more...and so will the one whom you submit too....

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 43

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 7:05:50 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: reticence
I can be as outspoken and as assertive as anyone. But it is not how I self-identify. I have control over how I present. I am amused sometimes that being polite, respectful, and in control of one's tongue is taken for doormatism or timidity.

I have found through the years that one gets much more flies with honey than with vinegar. It is not mine to correct the world, to always have to be right, to argue every point when I perceive another to be wrong. I feel it in no way detracts from my intelligence to be a listener, to let others speak unhampered, and to let many things go unchallenged. I certainly have enough things wrong with me that need my time and attention that I dont find it necessary to indict everyone else for their character flaws.
One can be intelligent, confident, and articulate AND not feel that her toes are stepped all over when s/he defers to another.

There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, stubborn, and all those other things, but just because one does not choose to be that way, does not mean they are any less of a capable, independent person. It is all about how you choose to present yourself to the world.

I enjoyed what reticence wrote. It reminds me of a scene in the Karate Kid movie where the master sought to teach the boy to ‘roll with the punches’, so to speak; to move from the swinging weight in a way that allowed him to not to be knocked down but also not clash with the weight itself.

I am learning here, even on these boards, to walk away from those who insist on stepping on toes. It’s amazing to me how many profess to be submissive, yet do everything they can to appear to the world otherwise. Is it intelligent, confident and articulate to bait people to bicker and backbite instead of enjoying a spirited debate? Is it strong and outspoken to flip somebody off when they do or say something that offends us?

reticence said “It is not mine to correct the world, to always have to be right, to argue every point when I perceive another to be wrong.” I figure it’s good enough to state my beliefs as clearly as I can and leave it at that. By my way of thinking, it’s good practice for this very opinionated one to learn when to just shut up. And I don’t think that makes me either a doormat OR the uber submissive. I just think to clash repeatedly is kind of ugly to watch and knowing when to “fold ‘em” is something I’d rather practice.

(in reply to reticence)

Post #: 44

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 7:37:44 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
I just think to clash repeatedly is kind of ugly to watch and knowing when to “fold ‘em” is something I’d rather practice.

As Johnny Cash sang....
"You got to know when to hold 'em; know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away; know when to run.
You don't ever count your money while you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin' is done."

And it doesn't just hold true for poker

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 45

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 7:41:06 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

Bearlee.... the more I read your post.. the more I see... i'm a submissive... it's done this way...if it's not.. you're not submissive....you seriously need to learn... there are different ways for all... not just one way..... you may not like ones ways.. but they are theirs..just like yours is yours...

This is not a flame... this is an observation.....I do not see anyone ( that I can recall).. questioning your submission.. but you sure are quick the question others. Actually you do not even question.. you just quickly toss out what you think to be wrong in ones submission. You might want to open those eyes some..and accept others.. as they have accepted you... or keep trying to accept you...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 46

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 7:42:17 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
I just think to clash repeatedly is kind of ugly to watch and knowing when to “fold ‘em” is something I’d rather practice.

As Johnny Cash sang....
"You got to know when to hold 'em; know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away; know when to run.
You don't ever count your money while you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin' is done."

And it doesn't just hold true for poker

LMAO.. that was Kenny Rogers...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 47

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 8:01:41 AM

wouldlike2

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

LOL LA... so true...

Many a times i've been told i'm unowned because i'm way too dominant to be submissive... and i so have to laugh. Because i'm too out spoken in telling someone just what i think of certain things. I am far from being a doormat. Wipe ones feet on me... and i'll leave claw marks.

You just keep learning... seeing what you are really made of... be yourself...and tell anyone who doesn't like it.. to kiss your ass... (others will tell you to do it politely though)....LOL

I may not be owned... but it's of my own choice... not because of not having offers. So stay true to yourself... and you'll find yourself enjoying your submission even more...and so will the one whom you submit too....

i do understand that very well and have dealt with that too - to hear i just want it my way..
to be honest it has hurt me in the past and touched me in thinking about how can someOne who do not know me determine who am i?
there were times i hold back with my thuoghts and feelings just cause about the fear i may not submissive or may gonna "loose" the prospective One.
i have learned i have to be true to myself - being real. it does not mean i would be disresepectful and i will not !
if it does not fit - then so it is.
i know i am challenging sometimes, untamed , outspoken..

but i know also who am i! and thats a good foundation at least to be with the One and to make Him happy...

pet

_____________________________

Love arises from the mind while the body follows and reflect the soul

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 48

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 9:35:07 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I have heard this several times.. but I figure they are just ignorant about what submission is and what it means to be one. There is only one person whom I need to value my submission, and that is my Daddy, and he thinks I am extremely submissive... and I am ... to him...smiles. I could give a rat's ass what anyone else thinks of my submissiveness, unless my Daddy valued their opinion.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to suggababy23)

Post #: 49

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 1:26:22 PM

hispossession

Posts: 161
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

I have an incredibly submissive nature... but primarily around my Master, Sir, and a few other of Master's friends.

The rest of the time I am a take charge kinda girl... I see something that needs to be done and it gets done. I have a very "dominant" personality when it comes right down to it... I am very much capable of following orders and direction but I'm just as good at giving orders and direction... *grins* I just don't ever try it with Master.

I guess it just means that you have to have a Dom/Master in your life who isn't intimidated by the fact that you have a strong, capable, functioning personality... Master is exactly that... in fact it is one of the things that he values about me.

_____________________________

I do not want to be the leader...
Anais Nin

(in reply to suggababy23)

Post #: 50

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/4/2006 8:15:55 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

*Fast reply*

I've been told that I'm not a submissive, that I was too outspoken, that I needed to learn to repect his dominance... etc

And my reply was to laugh, after all if my Dommes's wanted me to chill out, be quiet, or felt I was out of line, THEY would tell me. I never agreed to submit to every person who claims domliness, and frankly someone elses opinion of my submissiveness matters not in our relationship.

(in reply to Hercuckslave)

Post #: 51

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/5/2006 6:59:39 PM

mylittlesub

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline

I'm also relieved to see this thread... guess we've all heard the "you're not submissive because ..." at one time or another. Its easy to take that criticism to heart if you are not secure in your submission, and are seeking to learn and grow with someone.

Most Dominants I have met or talked with appreciate and respect intelligence, wit, and a sense of humor in a submissive as much as in anyone. With my Master, I have been touted as being strong-willed, outspoken, and intelligent - and as long as I address him in a respectful and courteous manner, even the things that we disagree on can be discussed honestly and openly, or we can "agree to disagree".

He told me something once years ago that has stuck with me whenever I was told by someone else that I'm *not* submissive: "any Dominant can have a doormat to serve him/her. It takes one helluva Dominant, however, to be able to lay claim to a submissive that others think is NOT."

Think about that for a minute - and be proud of who you are.

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 52

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/6/2006 7:16:56 AM

thegunslinger

Posts: 81
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Status: offline

Being outspoken is one of the qualities that attracted Me to my sub, and I still like her to be outspoken...as long as she follows the rules.

(in reply to Hercuckslave)

Post #: 53

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/6/2006 7:33:59 AM

gardenbluebird

Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline

I read something a while back that seems true to me. It went something like this -

A submissive is the most successful beta dominant. We aren't the most dominant, but we are powerful in our own right. We choose to serve the strongest dominant who is a match for our personalities and needs and blend our power with theirs.

Those who do not have the strength to control our power have not earned the privledge of our submission.

Speaking as an onery cuss of a slave I will happily and with great dedication serve the one that I have chosen. However, if anyone starts demanding that I be anything less than what I am they have in that moment proved themselves unworthy of my service.

(in reply to thegunslinger)

Post #: 54

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/6/2006 7:40:54 AM

TxBadMan

Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: suggababy23

I was wondering if anyone here has ever heard that they were too outspoken or that their personality was too bold for them to be a submissive. I recently heard this from a man that I was very interested in serving and it really crushed me. I am fairly new but I am very dedicated to learning and being trained to be a good submissive. I admit that I dont have a docile or timid personality but when I dedicate myself to serving someone, I give them my all. I don't want to become a doormat but it's not my wish to try to overpower my dominant. Has anyone else heard this before? How did you handle it?

Personally, I perfer young ladies to have a bit of 'spunk' , let's me know that they have a mind of their own and know how to use it. I will, however, repeat something that has been said before. It's all in how you speak to another. I encourage my girls to be outspoken as long as they remain respectful about it.

_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to suggababy23)

Post #: 55

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/11/2006 6:49:20 AM

fi

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

as i am new to this i am still learning how i can be 'me' but also be submissive. Master likes my humor, opinions & fire, but he says that i must learn to decipher between being His totally & when i can show a little of my feistiness.
in other words, i am supposed to know when to 'behave' and not air my opinions or views. sheww i do have to say, it confuses the shit outta me, but i guess i will learn with time.

(in reply to Hercuckslave)

Post #: 56

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/11/2006 7:18:30 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: suggababy23

I was wondering if anyone here has ever heard that they were too outspoken or that their personality was too bold for them to be a submissive. I recently heard this from a man that I was very interested in serving and it really crushed me. I am fairly new but I am very dedicated to learning and being trained to be a good submissive. I admit that I dont have a docile or timid personality but when I dedicate myself to serving someone, I give them my all. I don't want to become a doormat but it's not my wish to try to overpower my dominant. Has anyone else heard this before? How did you handle it?

I'm not naturally submissive. I am the type that tends to be agressive, will take over if allowed to, and tend to believe that if you want something done right, do it yourself. I'm more dominant than 99% of the "Doms" I meet.

However, when I meet someone within that 1% that I am not stronger than, I'll feel submissive. So, with the right person I can be very submissive.

I've spent many years being told that I'm not submissive. Big whoop. Double big whoop if it's some guy in cyber space. Bottom line is, yes, I'm submissive, just not to you.

I've also found that some "Doms" will use the "you're not submissive" line as an attempt to get a submissive/slave to do something they want.

Also, keep in mind that somewhere out there is a person that will appreciate what you bring to the table.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to suggababy23)

Post #: 57

RE: Too outspoken to be a submissive? - 7/11/2006 8:56:02 AM

suggababy23

Posts: 73
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

bobbi,

That is something that I have started to realize in the last year or so. I tend to be more dominant than the men I meet. I have had a couple sub men come to me and ask to scene with me and when I tell them I am actually a submissive, it is a shock. Sometimes I think its valuable to remember that any man can walk up to a woman and say "I am a Dominant". There's no paper work or certificates to certify that what that man is saying is true. Some men enjoy women who are more docile then myself and I have to remember that. It's just hard to do so when you feel like you failed. The initial shock is difficult to get over. I was thinking more with my heart than with my mind. I have hope that there is a man out there who does enjoy my personality and has no desire to change it, as I would not want to get a Dom and try to change him.

The hardest part is keeping that faith, you know? :)

~sugga

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 58

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