quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I still remember one breathless dominant proclaiming how obamacare had been a smashing success.. How the websites had crashed under the enormous loads and more than a million people had already signed up.

Except that it was *all* a lie.

2713 people were enough to crash the website.
6 people signed up.


And that 30 million -- oops 7 million --target for this year? Yea.. we might hit a million.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Oh dear me. They're bringing up Bush already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I chose to halve the defense budget. 

Methinks that's a good target, but we'd likely have to roll that back over the course of a few years, if not an entire decade.

Well of course how else could we preserve the profits for korporate amerika.


And, it will drastically change the way we currently run defense. I think the first thing we do is attend to Ron Paul's defense ideas and start closing most of our foreign bases.

Of course not buying strike fighters and bombers would be more effective if one considers the actual costs involved.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, the endgame has been and always was singlepayer nationalized healthcare.   And we are going to have to go for it.  It is playing perfectly.  The nutsackers are backed in the corner, listen to them howl, listen to them weeping and gnashing their teeth.

It is the greatest joke EVER!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux




So lets play a game joether.


Instead of actually having a discussion

We'll call this game rational thinking.


Rational thinking is a game for those who cannot...for those who can it is called intellectualism

So I'll give you some basic clues - and then you come back and see if you can win any prizes!

So.. here's clue number one:

A). How much does community rating increase the cost of insurance, on average?


It is a pretty well accepted fact that insurance cost are set by the level of greed of the korporation peddeling it.

B). How much does guaranteed issue increase the cost of insurance on average?

Once again most will accept the fact that greed is the prime mover here...for an adult not to recognize that is concerning

C). How much will the extra protections afforded by obamacare cost, on average? Since this is a hard one - I'll give you a hint. Look to the CBO.

How would that compare to insurance sold in the previous manner cost?


So for the first jar (an ointment that will remove shit from your eyes...):


How does it work on removing shit from the mouths of the ignorant?

How will it be possible for the government to do all these things AND add 30 million people to the insurance roster.

Perhaps we should waite and see since these were some of the same objections raised to both the lousiana purchase and the tva...both of which seem to have had an overall positive effect on our society.

[plays the jeopardy theme song].

For the bonus round:
So the current CBO estimate is that Obamacare will cost 1.86 trillion. Of course that's a load of shit.

Are we now speakig ex cathedra?



How much do you suppose its going to add to the costs when people don't sign up on schedule? (Hint: it begins with *b*).


Wouldn't this would assume that 30 million people would prefer to remain uninsured rather than bow to the "dictates" of the government?

Please tell me what an insurance death spiral is? Tell me, exactly, how we will avoid one since by January we will have preferentially moved sick people into government healthcare

Would this be all 6 of the ones you have assured us are the only ones sucking of of the system?



- with a good number of healthy people merely electing to pay the fine.

We will all appreciate your contribution no matter how small


Ok.. And for the extra special bonus round: Tell me all that money that the people that *did* sign up for obamacare -- where is it going to come from?
Do you suppose it might supplant regular spending? Ie., if I spend $400 more a month on health care, I'll have $400 less a month to spend on other things?

Assumes facts not in evidence

So go back to lollipop land where you can make something true merely by wishing hard enough...

We are all aware that the residents of lollipop land are wishing that the aca would just go away...either wishing doesn't work or they are not wishing hard enough?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/1/2013 9:03:03 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DOM68005

When you stick up somebody at the end of a gun or seriously enforced law, compliance goes up.

Might want to take a quick peak at the gun thread...it is clear that many think that compliance goes down under a given set of circumstances.


You either get screwed into purchasing obamacare or you get taxed into bankruptcy by the IRS because you failed at some future date to report properly report your bank account being victimized by obamacare payments.

Actually what we are talkng about here is ones inability to read their bank statement...how is that the govt. fault


Based on the rates that I have seen, there is no such thing as affordable in obamacare for millions of Americans.

Since the aca was created to service the 30 million who were uninsured that would seem like an improvement don'tcha thimk???


The hoops to get help from the government to comply are excessive and for many too complicated to understand.

Omg there are stupid people in america???who knew?



It was designed that way.
You have read the aca? Which part,specfically, does that?

(in reply to DOM68005)

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, the endgame has been and always was singlepayer nationalized healthcare.   And we are going to have to go for it.  It is playing perfectly.  The nutsackers are backed in the corner, listen to them howl, listen to them weeping and gnashing their teeth.

It is the greatest joke EVER!!!!

tail, from some of your posts, I assume you are some type of communications specialist. That means you have at least a basic grasp of math. Roughly 47% of people pay no federal income tax. (and they even get some money back) That means 53% must carry the entire load.

So the 47%(your figure)are they too poor to pay taxes? Wouldn't that speak directly to wage and labor issues?
Are they the super rich who have paid to have laws written just for them? Wouldn't that speak directly to the priviledge of the rich?
What I am driving at here is that your qestion does not address the issue only an aspect of the issue which is not relevant.




The CBO and everybody projects entitlement deficiets in the near future.

What exactly are those entitlements? Are they give aways called "farm subsidies" given to billionaire korporate farmers?

What part of these facts escapes you? You don't believe the CBO? You can't make a logical conclusion of these numbers?


I have no reason to disbelieve the cbo. The logcal conclusion one may draw from this is that we need to stop subsidizing the wealthy.

The nations that have single payer and Liberal "give everybody, everything" philosophy, have 50 & 60% tax rates

Which countries have a 50-60% tax rates besides the u.s.?

If the tax rates go to the point where they want half of what I make working,

I guess it depends on what one gets for teir 50%. If one gets a bloated defense establishment and poor peope on welfare that would seem like a question of priorities. What have the wars of the past 200+ years given to the average american? What might have been accomplished had all those funds been directed towards civic improvement? Civic improvement like infastructure,parks,health care etc.


I will switch from the working 50%, to the "sit on my ass" and be given a living 50%.

One has to wonder what sort of person would rather exist at the lowest level of poverty rather than work for a living?


And so will millions of others.

In a country with more than 300 million a few million loosers more or less is insignificant.

Thus, every year, the working class will see the light and the money comming in gets less and less.

Not everyone is that fucking lazy. Taxes in the u.s. are over 50% year now and I don't get didly for my bux. In a country with social agenda as opposed to a korporate agenda one gets somewhat more than a bloated defense budget and moronic rhetoric.

Hence, Liberalism works until you run out of other peoples' money.
Sweden,denmark,germany,england, italy,france,austria,poland,cuba,china,russia...etc all seem to still be in business.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/1/2013 9:26:43 AM >

(in reply to papassion)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, the endgame has been and always was singlepayer nationalized healthcare.   And we are going to have to go for it.  It is playing perfectly.  The nutsackers are backed in the corner, listen to them howl, listen to them weeping and gnashing their teeth.

It is the greatest joke EVER!!!!

quote:

Original:  papassion (in red) 
tail, from some of your posts, I assume you are some type of communications specialist.
ass, you  would be wrong.
 
That means you have at least a basic grasp of math. Roughly 47% of people pay no federal income tax. (and they even get some money back)
perhaps nutsackers shouldn't have cut taxes like that.

That means 53% must carry the entire load.
that of course is not true, not the entire load, as has been ignored by nutsackers repeatedly, they still pay fica and whatnot.

The CBO and everybody projects entitlement deficiets in the near future.
They have predicted that for awhile, the borrowing against it in lieu of taxation, reducing taxes, spending by nutsackers on useless shit and idiology, the greying of america, lotsa reasons, and it ain't something new or hasn't been coming and warned about since St. Wrinklemeat...and all the while the nutsacker war in Iraq.........

What part of these facts escapes you?
None, but many escape you.
 
You don't believe the CBO?
frankly, no...there may be some truth in there, but their track record is pretty hopeless. I take it into consideration.

 
You can't make a logical conclusion of these numbers?

Yup, raise taxes, drop spending, concentrate on infrastructure, jobs, paying down debt, disallow offshore banking (like many countries) and get out of these trade agreements and start tarriffing and dutying foreign goods......stuff like that


The nations that have single payer and Liberal "give everybody, everything" philosophy, have 50 & 60% tax rates.
Just think when all is said and done if you add monies to get a drivers license, extra cost of healthcare, money to file court papers, excises, alcohol, tobacco, licensing, permits, and so on, you are over your 50% now.  
 
 
 If the tax rates go to the point where they want half of what I make working, I will switch from the working 50%, to the "sit on my ass" and be given a living 50%.
 
and you will become the poor, which is happening in any case.
 

And so will millions of others.
 
The poor are always with us, deep thinker.

Thus, every year, the working class will see the light and the money comming in gets less and less.
 
Doing that now, and taxes are not at 50%, nor even going up.
 
Hence, Liberalism works until you run out of other peoples' money.
Hence Nutsackerism works only when you can fleece the lower classes of their money and property.  Making them pay to clean up toxic waste, bail out banks, fund the national azaelea collection, build up the military-industrial complex by porkulus,  howl about non-existant  free market principles that are useless, allow corporations to fleece america and protect them from competition....yeah....I will point out to you that the Nutsackers would not be considered (in this country at any rate) associated with Liberalism, but they preside over and have made, the largest debt in the history of this country....so...... 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to papassion)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I chose to halve the defense budget. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Nope, the endgame has been and always was singlepayer nationalized healthcare.   And we are going to have to go for it.  It is playing perfectly.  The nutsackers are backed in the corner, listen to them howl, listen to them weeping and gnashing their teeth.

It is the greatest joke EVER!!!!

tail, from some of your posts, I assume you are some type of communications specialist. That means you have at least a basic grasp of math. Roughly 47% of people pay no federal income tax. (and they even get some money back) That means 53% must carry the entire load. The CBO and everybody projects entitlement deficiets in the near future. What part of these facts escapes you? You don't believe the CBO? You can't make a logical conclusion of these numbers?

quote:

ORIGIONAL: papapassion
The nations that have single payer and Liberal "give everybody, everything" philosophy, have 50 & 60% tax rates. If the tax rates go to the point where they want half of what I make working, I will switch from the working 50%, to the "sit on my ass" and be given a living 50%. And so will millions of others. Thus, every year, the working class will see the light and the money comming in gets less and less. Hence, Liberalism works until you run out of other peoples' money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I still remember one breathless dominant proclaiming how obamacare had been a smashing success.. How the websites had crashed under the enormous loads and more than a million people had already signed up.

Except that it was *all* a lie.

2713 people were enough to crash the website.
6 people signed up.


And that 30 million -- oops 7 million --target for this year? Yea.. we might hit a million.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Some of those contracts are long term and would cost more to get out of them ahead of time. 

quote:

We just dont need the gps and toys based warfare as the chinese have proven.  We need boots.   I don't see isolationism working, since most of our economy comes from overseas, where we gonna get kids christmas toys come the unrest in some country?  We gotta build at home here first (which is a founding republican principle, btw) so there is something here to have and hold and defend.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Q:How many people signed up for obamacare!
A: 6!

Source: CBS News.

Question:

How many people are signed up under the Massachusetts Health Care Reform Act?

Answer:

97% of the population.

An do you know what will happen in a few months, Phydeaux? Tens of millions of Americans will get health care plans. Millions will pay the fine. Either way, the grand majority of Americans will be following the current laws on the books. In a few months will you come back here, and tell all of us that you were wrong? Or merely slink back into the shadows, denying to your dying breath that you ever said anything like you are now? It happened with George W. Bush on those 'massive stockpiles' of 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq. How many did we find, Phydeaux? Which is why in a few months, you'll be proved wrong. This is not a belief, this is knowing human behavior as it relates to laws in America. People will get health care plans. The issue with the website, while annoying at the moment, will get fixed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


The nations that have single payer and Liberal "give everybody, everything" philosophy, have 50 & 60% tax rates.

quote:




If the tax rates go to the point where they want half of what I make working, I will switch from the working 50%, to the "sit on my ass" and be given a living 50%. And so will millions of others. Thus, every year, the working class will see the light and the money comming in gets less and less. Hence, Liberalism works until you run out of other peoples' money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
The nations that have single payer and Liberal "give everybody, everything" philosophy, have 50 & 60% tax rates.

Which ones would those be? We have had single payer healthcare for nigh on 70 years, and our taxes never came close to that.

But then, I don't know any of these "give everybody everything" nations (God knows the UK isn't one,) so maybe they only exist in some Koch Brothers talking-points playbook.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine

quote:


If the tax rates go to the point where they want half of what I make working, I will switch from the working 50%, to the "sit on my ass" and be given a living 50%. And so will millions of others. Thus, every year, the working class will see the light and the money comming in gets less and less. Hence, Liberalism works until you run out of other peoples' money.

Funny thing, in this country almost all the people living on welfare would give their eyeteeth for a job, if only there were any. I'm told it's the same in the US. The reason the money isn't coming in is that the workers don't have any work, and the rich (who outsourced their jobs) have had plenty of tax loopholes set up by their tame politicians. That's not Liberalism, it's Capitalism, at the crisis stage.