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GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 3:02:30 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		In an interesting piece in the NYT, ex Reagan and Bush official Bruce Bartlett denounces the Tea Party inspired "War on the Poor', and examines signs of increasing realisation within the GOP that the Tea Party has become more of an election liability than a positive force for the GOP:
"I have long believed that the Tea Party is a populist movement with no staying power. When it was at its peak, conservatives and Republicans sought to harness its energy to achieve long-held ideological, electoral and legislative goals. But the Tea Party has proved to be a double-edged sword that now threatens those goals more than it aids them. A pushback has clearly begun.
Republican hopes in 2016 may depend on how well it succeeds."
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/the-decline-of-the-tea-party/

Has the recent Obamacare-related closure of the Federal Govt, a PR disaster for the GOP, turned opinion within the GOP against the Tea Party ideologues? Have the slowly accumulating election losses finally taught the GOP that the electorate isn't interested in ideological purity but in politics that delivers results? Has the ultra Right politics of the Tea Party alienated the electorate, ensuring it stays out of office?

GOP insider Bartlett thinks so. What do you think? Is it time for the GOP and the USA generally to reject the extreme Right and chart a more centrist course?

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 4:01:36 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		It's about time the GOP moderates figured out what the Tea Party is. Their current goal is to take over the Republican Party.

tweak, the danger to the GOP isn't that the GOP will lose general elections due to the Teafolks. The danger is that the Teafolks will:

1. Get the donors to fund Tea Party types instead of mainstream GOPers.
2. Distract the entire GOP with incessant fights over the heart and soul of the GOP.
3. Turn off donors from the GOP altogether.

This is a fascinating development. The Tea Party is a legitimate third party, but instead of developing from the ground up like other third parties, it's trying to take over an existing party to get started.

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 4:50:35 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Has the recent Obamacare-related closure of the Federal Govt, a PR disaster for the GOP, turned opinion within the GOP against the Tea Party ideologues? Have the slowly accumulating election losses finally taught the GOP that the electorate isn't interested in ideological purity but in politics that delivers results? Has the ultra Right politics of the Tea Party alienated the electorate, ensuring it stays out of office?

GOP insider Bartlett thinks so. What do you think? Is it time for the GOP and the USA generally to reject the extreme Right and chart a more centrist course?


There's another article I read this morning regarding last night's election results: How the tea party lost on Tuesday night

quote:

The most noteworthy points are what happened to Cuccinelli versus what happened to Christie. Cuccinelli lost moderate voters by more than 18 points while Christie coasted to a historic win in a deep blue state. No Republican had done as well as Christie did statewide in New Jersey since the 1980s. It will be hard for the party to interpret that as something other than a loud and clear call to move toward the politics espoused by Christie and away from what the tea party has argued for.

Winning is an awfully persuasive argument in politics — perhaps the most persuasive argument.

To be clear, there were lots of factors at play Tuesday. Cuccinelli and Young were both outspoken social conservatives, a reality that cost the former and may have cost the latter. Local issues mattered and so did the effective campaigns against the tea party candidates. So no, not everything that went wrong for tea party candidates was a direct result of voters’ desire to defy the movement.


However, I think the real telling point will be next year's elections. I can't say for sure whether it's the Tea Party or just the general notion that Republicans have been the primary authors of America's economic, moral, and social decline. The Tea Party reminds me of the unabashed and brazen Reaganites of the 1980s, with the same ideology, beliefs, and tactics, so they're probably thinking that since it worked so well in the 1980s, it should work just well today. But obviously, it's not working.

Reagan won primarily because the Cold War was going on and Democrats were seen as too weak on defense. Since that's not the case anymore, all the Tea Party has to fall back on now is Reaganomics, but since the people have been able to see the current results of "voodoo economics" over the past 30 years, they clearly don't like what they see. The social conservatives (which would encompass the Religious Right) also seem to be in a bit of a quandary, since they're inextricably associated with the wantonly pro-business "screw the poor" attitudes which piss off so many people in this country.




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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:11:32 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		At this point in time....the gop isn`t suffering enough for any organic movement to start......


And anyone moderate still gets eviscerated by the lunatic fringe and it`s powerful media arm, fux news and friends.....called a "RINO" and much much worse....


The t`s are still climbing over bodies, clawing for control of the party while more normal cons like j-boner are forced into things he doesn`t want...


Chris Christie still get`s mentioned as a possible gop moderate alternative to start a moderate`s movement but he doesn`t have the balls nor the inclination to battle other republicans. I can`t think of anyone else in the gop(elected) that`s willing to speak-out against the party`s extremists....the so called tea party.


The party and it`s leadership seem clueless to the anger toward them and many are doubling down, saying the product is fine and that only the packaging needs changes.....


But the shutdown/extortion scheme was truly a tipping point for the American people but unfortunately, it`s going to take more disastrous stunts and damage to America and Americans like the shutdown before anything real happens like a gop reformation or party split.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/6/2013 5:15:08 AM >

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:12:38 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
It's about time the GOP moderates figured out what the Tea Party is. Their current goal is to take over the Republican Party.
tweak, the danger to the GOP isn't that the GOP will lose general elections due to the Teafolks. The danger is that the Teafolks will:
1. Get the donors to fund Tea Party types instead of mainstream GOPers.
2. Distract the entire GOP with incessant fights over the heart and soul of the GOP.
3. Turn off donors from the GOP altogether.
This is a fascinating development. The Tea Party is a legitimate third party, but instead of developing from the ground up like other third parties, it's trying to take over an existing party to get started.


Many see the Tea Party as a way to bring the GOP back to the traditional party planks of the Republican Party. The GOP is a more like the Independent Party than the traditional GOP. The Tea Party tried to change the GOP from within, which is better than attempting to replace it with a separate party.

If you were presented with a party you think is completely wrong, and a party that you think is supposed to be right, but has drifted off, would you work towards creating a new party or bringing the party that is supposed to be right back on course?


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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:21:52 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The so called "tea party" are the extremist of the gop......with no loyalty to fiscal responsibility/making gov. smaller or to our nation`s security(traditional gop values).



They are also the bigots, homophobes and the fundies trying to force their republican Jesus down all our throats.....



An example.....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/6/2013 5:22:11 AM >

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:21:56 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

If you were presented with a party you think is completely wrong, and a party that you think is supposed to be right, but has drifted off, would you work towards creating a new party or bringing the party that is supposed to be right back on course?



This question would have been really poignant if asked of a southern democrat in the 60s for example.

While the GOP is definitely having it's issues and some of those issues drove me out, 20 years ago, there are some things (True economic conservatism) that deserve to have a major party bringing them to the fore.

Democrats may have the shortest memories on the planet based upon their long history of being on the wrong side of quite a few important issues and their revisionist history, now.

After all, Roosevelt did the right thing, keeping us out of WWII for so long and Kennedy was spot on in Vietnam. Right?





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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:24:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
The so called "tea party" are the extremist of the gop......with no loyalty to fiscal responsibility/making gov. smaller or to our nation`s security.
They are also the bigots, homophobes and the fundies trying to force their republican Jesus down all our throats.....
An example.....


You are pushing Ted Cruz's father as the typical Tea Partyer? That is ridiculous.

Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government, or National Security? Anything, other than spin and rhetoric, that is?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:32:29 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The democrats went though a reformation in the 50s/60s where we threw out the bigots and they joined the gop......no wonder you want to forget this......


Republicans can`t remember just yesterday or even a few hours ago...... ......let alone 50 years ago.....




< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/6/2013 5:33:03 AM >

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:40:39 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government, or National Security? Anything, other than spin and rhetoric, that is?


Does it matter whether the tea party's commitment to these issues is real or rhetorical?

The point at hand is that the tea party's focus on ideological purity (as they see it) is making the GOP un-electable. All the ideological purity in the world isn't going to matter if the GOP is consigned to permanent exclusion from office will it?

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 5:50:43 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government, or National Security? Anything, other than spin and rhetoric, that is?


Does it matter whether the tea party's commitment to these issues is real or rhetorical?

The point at hand is that the tea party's focus on ideological purity (as they see it) is making the GOP un-electable. All the ideological purity in the world isn't going to matter if the GOP is consigned to permanent exclusion from office will it?



If you listen to the bigots extreme rhetoric in the news reel ,it`s almost word for word the same extreme rhetoric the cons are using today to battle affordable healthcare....

Words like "totalitarian"

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 6:06:37 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government


Well those two right there.

Check the debt. Check revenues.

Homeland Security, Voter ID, Increase in Defense budget.........yanno.

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 6:07:04 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
The so called "tea party" are the extremist of the gop......with no loyalty to fiscal responsibility/making gov. smaller or to our nation`s security.
They are also the bigots, homophobes and the fundies trying to force their republican Jesus down all our throats.....
An example.....


You are pushing Ted Cruz's father as the typical Tea Partyer? That is ridiculous.

Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government, or National Security? Anything, other than spin and rhetoric, that is?



Ted Cruz and sarah palin are the most popular figures in the so called tea party.....FYI.....no need to thank me for informing you.


To Tweak`s point.....the so called tea-party,like neo-cons really don`t have any values per se or a set of beliefs they hold to.....other that getting power.Can anyone name a position that their last presidential candidate mittens didn`t flip on(other than lower taxes for rich people)?


The t`s are more loyal to corporate America and lowering the 1%`s taxes then they are in lowering the deficit. The default, like someone not paying their mortgage for a few months, did/does not save money nor will it improve one`s financial house. It was financial folly....the opposite of sound finances.


The t`s were primarily financed by corporate(the 1 %) donations and super PACs. The busses and venues were payed for by dick armey`s group and others like it.Not nearly as many of those old farts would have come on their own dime,had freedom works not had air conditioned busses waiting.Sarah wouldn`t speak unless she got paid....

And the fundies pushing their agenda on the rest of us is the opposite of smaller government.....If you don`t understand that already, it probably can`t be explained.



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/6/2013 6:17:47 AM >

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President Obama

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 6:16:21 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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And .................. .... the gop`s complete abuse of the Benghazi tragedy and conscious negligence/treachery in it`s aftermath is ample proof that the geopee put politics over the nation`s security.

"Rep. Chaffetz says he "absolutely" voted to cut funding for embassy security"

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/rep-chaffetz-says-he-absolutely-cut-funding-for-embassy-security/
[/quote]


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/6/2013 6:17:24 AM >

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 7:43:01 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government, or National Security? Anything, other than spin and rhetoric, that is?

Does it matter whether the tea party's commitment to these issues is real or rhetorical?
The point at hand is that the tea party's focus on ideological purity (as they see it) is making the GOP un-electable. All the ideological purity in the world isn't going to matter if the GOP is consigned to permanent exclusion from office will it?


Actually, I'd much rather politicians state their true ideology rather than being mealy-mouthed and stating what the current audience wants to hear. If a candidate holds the belief that all illicit drugs shouldn't be illegal, then I would want that candidate to come out and state that (and why), rather than changing tunes depending on who is in front of him/her at the moment.

Unless the politicians are up front about ideology, how do you know what you're voting for?

If the ideology isn't electable, then those politicians holding that ideology won't have any platform to run on. If the Tea Party candidate is challenged by a different Republican candidate, then the will of the people should decide which one best represents them, not whichever candidate the GOP throws the most money behind.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 7:55:06 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government?

Well those two right there.
Check the debt. Check revenues.
Homeland Security, Voter ID, Increase in Defense budget.........yanno.


Check the debt? Yep, it's there. And, yep, Democrats want to increase revenues (which are already nearing all-time highs, if they haven't eclipsed them for FY2013) while the Tea Party affiliated GOP want to reduce spending to impact the debt.

What about the rest of your allegation isn't aligned with fiscal responsibility and/or smaller government?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 7:59:17 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
The so called "tea party" are the extremist of the gop......with no loyalty to fiscal responsibility/making gov. smaller or to our nation`s security.
They are also the bigots, homophobes and the fundies trying to force their republican Jesus down all our throats.....
An example.....

You are pushing Ted Cruz's father as the typical Tea Partyer? That is ridiculous.
Do you have anything to back your accusations that the Tea Party isn't loyal to fiscal responsibility, smaller government, or National Security? Anything, other than spin and rhetoric, that is?

Ted Cruz and sarah palin are the most popular figures in the so called tea party.....FYI.....no need to thank me for informing you.


Correct. No need for me to acknowledge something that did not happen.

quote:

To Tweak`s point.....the so called tea-party,like neo-cons really don`t have any values per se or a set of beliefs they hold to.....other that getting power.Can anyone name a position that their last presidential candidate mittens didn`t flip on(other than lower taxes for rich people)?
The t`s are more loyal to corporate America and lowering the 1%`s taxes then they are in lowering the deficit. The default, like someone not paying their mortgage for a few months, did/does not save money nor will it improve one`s financial house. It was financial folly....the opposite of sound finances.


Any proof that the Tea Party is more loyal to Corporate America than to lowering the deficit?

quote:

The t`s were primarily financed by corporate(the 1 %) donations and super PACs. The busses and venues were payed for by dick armey`s group and others like it.Not nearly as many of those old farts would have come on their own dime,had freedom works not had air conditioned busses waiting.Sarah wouldn`t speak unless she got paid....
And the fundies pushing their agenda on the rest of us is the opposite of smaller government.....If you don`t understand that already, it probably can`t be explained.


In some cases, yes, their beliefs would increase the scope of government, and in others, it would decrease both the size and scope of government.

Mind getting more specific, or are you just going to keep making allusions?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 8:02:04 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, one does not have hope that the ignorant will no longer be with us.

Uh, democrats have been about reducing spending and raising revenues.  That is called fiscal responsiblity.

And the other, cannot be explained to those who cannot follow 3rd grade logic, never having considered logic beyond out of diapers.

Go with the simpletonian drooling view, it has worked for nutsackers since Reagan drooled on TV.  It hasn't worked out real well, but if we just give it a chance..........

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RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 8:09:08 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
And .................. .... the gop`s complete abuse of the Benghazi tragedy and conscious negligence/treachery in it`s aftermath is ample proof that the geopee put politics over the nation`s security.
"Rep. Chaffetz says he "absolutely" voted to cut funding for embassy security"
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/rep-chaffetz-says-he-absolutely-cut-funding-for-embassy-security/


Chaffetz admitted voting to cut funding for embassy security. What happens when funding is cut? Don't you have to decide where to make those cuts? According to your article, there are thousands of security personnel in Baghdad. Why didn't the cuts happen there?

You and Soledad O'Brien are correlating a cut in funding of the budget for embassy security to the denial of increased security in Benghazi. The only time that would be true, is if there was no possibility to reduce security anywhere else. Someone chose to not cut in Baghdad (as an example) and increase in Benghazi. That certainly isn't an example of not supporting "National Security."

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: GOP pushback against Tea Party - 11/6/2013 8:13:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Yeah, one does not have hope that the ignorant will no longer be with us.
Uh, democrats have been about reducing spending and raising revenues.  That is called fiscal responsiblity.


Democrats are for reducing spending? You mean the ones that were claiming a "fiscal cliff" over reductions in spending increases? Those Democrats?

quote:

And the other, cannot be explained to those who cannot follow 3rd grade logic, never having considered logic beyond out of diapers.
Go with the simpletonian drooling view, it has worked for nutsackers since Reagan drooled on TV.  It hasn't worked out real well, but if we just give it a chance..........


Another example? Thanks, MN, but not necessary.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 20
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