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KnightofMists -> The Dark Side (7/2/2006 8:34:13 PM)

You often here in the lifestyle comment like;

"I Have No Limits"

"I Will Do Anything For Him"

I ask you to read this;  before you continue reading the rest of my post and other posts

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/letters/story.html?id=051d6ea3-1da0-4dad-a540-6f8ce8344885&k=94473

A couple thoughts to share.  I have met this person.  I know many that know this person or have met this person. 

She had No Limits!  She Did Anything For Him! 

So the question......  Does "No Limits" mean NO Limits... Does "Do Anything" mean ANYTHING"?

What are your thoughts?  What additional thoughts do you have to share?



sharainks -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 8:41:21 PM)

Obviously she had no limits or boundaries or good judgement.

Most people can say what they want about no limits but find them soon enough when the things suggested exceed their sense of morality, safety, or legality.  IMO he was looking for an easy target, found one and the unmentionable suffered for her stupidity.



CrappyDom -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 8:42:00 PM)

I assume you mean the woman and not the guy cause he seems like someone I would waste a bullet on.

No limits is a game of chicken where one side trusts the other to not really invoke it.  It stunned me when LA spoke of having her clit removed and it is still is rattling around in my head in a sort of nightmarish way.

Someone like this woman in my opinion isn't capable of consenting to much. clearly isn't capable of finding a partner and needs more sympathy (and a lot of fucking therapy) than punishment.



cheshireboy -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 8:44:56 PM)

read the article....twice...and i understand the concept of "no limits," and those that want to have no limits and many the mental reasoning behind it...but for me, limits are healthy, and if you want to have no limits, fine, just set the only limit as it can be illegal....or mayhaps in my mind that should be the given.



littlesarbonn -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 8:52:17 PM)

I believe there are as many people who want to claim they have no limits as there are who feel they must debunk every claim of "no limits" that they hear. It's almost a religion with some people.

I have been in "no limits" relationships with women I have served, and each time one of us mentioned it, especially on the Internet, no small amount of people created a personal mission to prove that such a relationship couldn't happen, saying things like "what if she wanted you to cut off your leg with a chainsaw?" There's often a lot of irrationality in these conversations so that it's usually easier just to avoid talking about the "no limit" thing except with the person with whom you decide to share the "no limit" parameters of a relationship.



KnightofMists -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 8:53:22 PM)

You assume correctly... it was the women I met. 

Your correct that this person needs alot of help.  However, how many are out there that need help just like her and we find out after the fact.   This is an extreme example..... but really I think there are things that could be less horrible and still reflect a person that needs help.

What message are we that seem to grounded sending to those in the lifestyle.  Yes their is Predators!  But, Predators don't make Victims they find them and use them.  In there use of victims they create new victims and sometimes future predators.  What are we doing to break the cycle?



Taylore -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:02:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

You often here in the lifestyle comment like;

"I Have No Limits"

"I Will Do Anything For Him"

I ask you to read this;  before you continue reading the rest of my post and other posts

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/letters/story.html?id=051d6ea3-1da0-4dad-a540-6f8ce8344885&k=94473

A couple thoughts to share.  I have met this person.  I know many that know this person or have met this person. 

She had No Limits!  She Did Anything For Him! 

So the question......  Does "No Limits" mean NO Limits... Does "Do Anything" mean ANYTHING"?

What are your thoughts?  What additional thoughts do you have to share?


When this slave first started her relationship with Master, he had me sit down and write out everything that I would absolutly NOT do, even after 10 years in a relationship ( though we have not been together that long, that was the 'general' example that Master used ).
It has been three years since that day, and never has any activity on my 'list' come into discussion by him. There were some that I asked him about, and then said that I would like to try; but he has never tried to say that I NEED TO DO SO because it is his wish.
 
So, I guess that I have NO LIMITS in regards to what we HAVE agreed upon; but at the same time, because of the list I made out to start with; I HAVE LIMITS that Master will not breach.
 
After reading this the first time, I asked Master about the list I had done, and if he would and had ever considered trying to convince me to try some more of what was on there. His words were no. When I asked him why, he answered 'because to do so would not only destroy the trust that you have in me, but would also destroy any integrity I had in myself."
 
I will be honest though, I do not know what or how I would act if the situation ever occured. I like to think that I would stay true to my own ethics; but it is a situation I have never been in. Therefore, I can not really say.
 
 



catize -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:05:02 PM)

At the end of the day we are each responsible for our own behavior.  I cannot empathize with anyone who victimizes another, let alone their own flesh and blood.  If she truely had 'no limits' then she would not try to excuse her behavior by claiming she was the abused one. They had an on line relationship, she wasn't abused, she was stupid and allowed her poor choice to affect an innocent''s life.  Whining the words .........'but master said!' does not alleviate her blame. 



Caretakr -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:09:16 PM)

There is one real limit-just how far the TOP will go.

And the man in the story was clearly a criminal.

Taylor describes pretty much the same ritual I go through. We both place our cards on the table, and make careful decisons as to the foundational aspects of how both kink and household will be conducted. If those are broken, I am considered to have released her. And that goes BOTH ways.

Now, I have a question for you.

What was YOUR motivation in using such an extreme example?



KnightofMists -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:16:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taylore
I will be honest though, I do not know what or how I would act if the situation ever occured. I like to think that I would stay true to my own ethics; but it is a situation I have never been in. Therefore, I can not really say.  


Thank you for such an straightforward answer.  I would imagine the majority of us would like to think we would do the right thing for ourselves.... but until we walk the talk.... do we really know?  The important thing is that we do believe it and hold onto it.... for if it ever comes to pass... we have a better chance of protecting our personal boundaries/limits.

In my situation, alandra and kyra do not have limit lists.  They do have the expectation that I will not Harm their Well-Being.  It is not my final choice of what will or will not Harm their Well-Being.  If at any time they consider anything to be of permanent or long-term harm then it will not be done.  My girls have the following Directive that is the highest priority of all instructions or orders that I have given them.

"the slave has the responsibility to ensure their Well-Being to the best of their ability.  If the slave is of the opinion that their Well-Being is at risk, they must advise the Master as quickly as possible"

BTW.  I agree... thou I love alot of things about kyra physically.... her eyes are my favorite!



BitaTruble -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:20:36 PM)

quote:

What are we doing to break the cycle?


As an individual, there is little I can do but advocate adult knowledgeable consent and personal responsibility. The fact of the matter is, unless everyone is willing to institute some sort of Big Brother philosophy, shit is gonna happen and I'm not willing to vote yes on Big Brother. People make choices and sometimes innocents are hurt through no fault of their own but at the same time, you can't save the world. If you are aware and informed of an issue such as this, and you want to step in, what do you think you can do unless and until a crime has been committed? Society as a whole is reactive .. and when we try to advocate prevention is worth a pound of cure, people like me are going to tell other people to butt the hell out of my life.

You actually knew her Knight.. what do you think you could have done, personally, to prevent this from happening? How do you think you would have done it?

There are no guarantees in life and even if you think you can step in, the odds are your interference will be short lived at best and at worst, you get yourself in trouble and end up behind bars.. and what good can you do then?

The whole situation is sad and today we can get angry .. and tomorrow something else sad will happen and that little boy and this will be forgotten because people have their own lives to live and their own problems with which to deal. I know that sounds harsh, but it is reality. We take the good along with the bad as one of the prices we pay for freedom.

Sharing my personal experiences and advocating are pretty much all I have to offer .. and I offer those things freely. Beyond that, if someone has some magic formula to save the world, I'm all ears to hear them out.

Celeste



PlayfulOne -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:26:14 PM)

My little one would say that she would do anything for me.  I will tell you that "anything' has an asterick attatched to it.  She expects me to have the same charector, strength, and good judgement I exhibited when she gave herself to me.  We have a running bit going where I keep teasing her about getting a genital piercing.  Part of the ongoing discussion involves taking her down to the piercing shop for an inspection of what can be done.  She does not want a piercing and is dreading the inspection, but her answer is "Yes Sir".  I haven't decided and I am having too much fun with the running mind fuck to get it done, but this falls under "anything" and if its what I want it is what she shall do.  Now if suddenly I start talking about taking the knife and doing a female circumiscion as soon as she thought I was serious, she would want to stop the bus and have a chat.  That is where the asterick comes in.  While "anything" covers a lot of territory including things she might not really want to do it is not absolute and common sense has to step in somewhere.

I do feel for the lady in the story, I think she was a victim in waiting for the right person to come along and manipulate her.  I disagree with Crappy and think he should just be beaten to death as he is not worth the bullet.  I can feel for her and have pity for her, but could never forgive her.  Somewhere in there you must find the place to protect your unmentionable and she has to pay the piper for that.

K



KnightofMists -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:33:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

What was YOUR motivation in using such an extreme example?


I have read a lot the boards of late about No Limits.  Total Responsibility etc etc.  We often see the extreme examples to try to shift the extreme of one way with the extreme of another.  But, such extreme's are often written off as unrealistic or unlikely.  I am sure many of us know of some pretty tough situations... but extremes like this that are talked about are more urban myth than fact for most of us.  This situation is fact... I am have personally came in contact with this person.  I am not exactly sympathetic to the her, but I am not without compassion in appreciating that there is alot more here than we will ever know or understand.

I am also, trying to send a message/wake up call to those new or not so new that maybe at risk to such errors in judgements and/or shifting responsibility of their actions.  I am also trying to send a message to the rest of us that how we carry out our lives is being watched by others.  We are admired and we are emulated..... so consider for yourself what message you are sending out? 

An Incredible and truly Dynamic Leather Man in my community once in a talk expressed that we all informally mentor others by the very actions/words that others observe.  These words sink in more today as I read the story yesterday, even thou I knew this was in the works months ago.



Misstoyou -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:39:09 PM)

I can understand the concept of one having no limits as to what is done to oneself, or what two people do between each other, but I fail to see how "I have no limits with him/her" justifies dragging anybody else into it, let alone what happened here.



Caretakr -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:45:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

What was YOUR motivation in using such an extreme example?


I have read a lot the boards of late about No Limits.  Total Responsibility etc etc.  We often see the extreme examples to try to shift the extreme of one way with the extreme of another.  But, such extreme's are often written off as unrealistic or unlikely.  I am sure many of us know of some pretty tough situations... but extremes like this that are talked about are more urban myth than fact for most of us.  This situation is fact... I am have personally came in contact with this person.  I am not exactly sympathetic to the her, but I am not without compassion in appreciating that there is alot more here than we will ever know or understand.

I am also, trying to send a message/wake up call to those new or not so new that maybe at risk to such errors in judgements and/or shifting responsibility of their actions.  I am also trying to send a message to the rest of us that how we carry out our lives is being watched by others.  We are admired and we are emulated..... so consider for yourself what message you are sending out? 

An Incredible and truly Dynamic Leather Man in my community once in a talk expressed that we all informally mentor others by the very actions/words that others observe.  These words sink in more today as I read the story yesterday, even thou I knew this was in the works months ago.


I understand, my respect for your caring.[:)]



KnightofMists -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:45:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

What are we doing to break the cycle?


You actually knew her Knight.. what do you think you could have done, personally, to prevent this from happening? How do you think you would have done it?


I guess you have a hard time reading this late at night.... I said
quote:

I have met this person.  I know many that know this person or have met this person


I am not concerned about the past.... I can't change the past.  What I am concerned about is the future.... just maybe this thread will give a person the courage to go right instead of left in the future. Just maybe my actions will cause others to take actions that will cause someone someday to go right instead of left.  At one time we were just cavemen with clubs, Now we are a much more civilized people.  Are we there yet... NO... but we are better... and tomorrow... I think we can be better as well.  Their is no magic except the desire to be better and making that effort to be better.




Caretakr -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:47:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

I can understand the concept of one having no limits as to what is done to oneself, or what two people do between each other, but I fail to see how "I have no limits with him/her" justifies dragging anybody else into it, let alone what happened here.


absolutely nothing justified this,which is why a minor will now have to deal with a life long trauma, and the other two are in extreme trouble-and rightly so.[:'(]



JessieMe -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:50:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

I can understand the concept of one having no limits as to what is done to oneself, or what two people do between each other, but I fail to see how "I have no limits with him/her" justifies dragging anybody else into it, let alone what happened here.


Amen!



BitaTruble -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:53:14 PM)

quote:



I guess you have a hard time reading this late at night....


Rest assured there is absolutely nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. It's not that late. The questions were rhetorical in nature which I would think one could gather from the context of my whole post. My bad for not making that clear.. your bad for getting snotty about it.

We're done here. I'm a firm believer in leading by example and I've said my piece on this issue and have no more to say about it.

Celeste



KnightofMists -> RE: The Dark Side (7/2/2006 9:56:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

I can understand the concept of one having no limits as to what is done to oneself, or what two people do between each other, but I fail to see how "I have no limits with him/her" justifies dragging anybody else into it, let alone what happened here.


"Jump off this bridge" Master says....  What I can't understand or accept is " I have no limits" justifies a person to harming themselves or others.



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