quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

I'm waiting for Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et al Dem pols, the msm and, last but certainly not least, Obama minions to blame this on Bush. LOL

quote:

Nobody has the right to force you to buy something you don't want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
Scumbag Obama knew he was LYING about Obamacare from the get-go (2008) because he knew if he told the truth about Obamacare he wouldn't get elected.

So he knew of all the exact details of the Affordable Care Act, including the seventeen pages of amendments, BEFORE the document was revised from his initial plan that he sent to Congress in mind 2009....BEFORE....he was elected. Frankly, the President has been much more honest of the ACA and even taken responsibility for it not living up to standards; much unlike former President George W. Bush and all those missing WMDs we were suppose to find in Iraq when we invaded it!

Besides, you never read the document, so your speaking from the point of view of others telling you how to think.....

Um yes, actually, yes, he did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Yeah.. Bush is responsible for Obamacare because of WMD's in Iraq.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I knew you'd make my point for me. Liberals and Republicans can't seem to step away from the tyranny trough. Both groups have steadily torn the intent of this country from it's roots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
By the way... I've set myself up so that I WON'T be paying shit into healthcare. There's a movementto protest at the grassroots level as we'll as political.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
You simply can't keep forcing people to do things against they're will and not expect them to rightly push back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Also...you failed to address any of my other questions. Why can't it be voluntary? Why the force? Why not let those that want it, join up or opt out?

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I knew you'd make my point for me. Liberals and Republicans can't seem to step away from the tyranny trough. Both groups have steadily torn the intent of this country from it's roots.

What happen to conservatives, moderates, and Democrats? Oh, you also counting Libertarians here too; or are they just conservative?

They're all the same these days... tyranny of the majority loving assclowns, one and all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
By the way... I've set myself up so that I WON'T be paying shit into healthcare. There's a movementto protest at the grassroots level as we'll as political.

Well, you'll either have a healthcare plan by Jan 1, 2014, or will be paying a fire of either 1% of your gross pay or $95 which ever is more. You can protest all you want. But not paying that fine without healthcare sort of undermines your credibility. Your stating that the rules do not apply to you even though your a citizen like anyone else. That is a federal law your breaking.

My credibility? What you just said makes no sense. I've put myself below the poverty threshold and I refuse to sign up, pay a fine or participate.

As for breaking a law.. I deem it unconstitutional per the founders intent and I don't follow lawsthat are such. Not all Americans are Schweppes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
You simply can't keep forcing people to do things against they're will and not expect them to rightly push back.

No one is forcing you to do anything at all. There are penalties for not doing things. While 2014's penalty will not be bad, 2015's might cause most in your grassroots to think twice. That one is 2.5% or $695 of your gross income which ever is greater.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Also...you failed to address any of my other questions. Why can't it be voluntary? Why the force? Why not let those that want it, join up or opt out?

Actually, it *IS* voluntary just as you demand. If you want to '...opt out...' you pay the fine for the 2014 section of your IRS form. In 2015 and each year after that fine is considerably higher on the IRS form. You don't want healthcare, don't get any! Its a free country. The Government does not own the healthcare industry as much as the conservative misinformation machine would have you believe the contrary. People voted other people into office, to create and vote on a bill that would become the law of the land.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
You simply can't keep forcing people to do things against they're will and not expect them to rightly push back.

No one is forcing you to do anything at all. There are penalties for not doing things. While 2014's penalty will not be bad, 2015's might cause most in your grassroots to think twice. That one is 2.5% or $695 of your gross income which ever is greater.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Also...you failed to address any of my other questions. Why can't it be voluntary? Why the force? Why not let those that want it, join up or opt out?

Actually, it *IS* voluntary just as you demand. If you want to '...opt out...' you pay the fine for the 2014 section of your IRS form. In 2015 and each year after that fine is considerably higher on the IRS form. You don't want healthcare, don't get any! Its a free country. The Government does not own the healthcare industry as much as the conservative misinformation machine would have you believe the contrary. People voted other people into office, to create and vote on a bill that would become the law of the land.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

Sorry, Joether, but presenting the choice of "either you buy insurance or you pay a tax penalty" isn't really making it voluntary. That's as "voluntary" as paying taxes is "voluntary." Regardless of which way one "chooses," they are being forced to do something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Sorry, Joether, but presenting the choice of "either you buy insurance or you pay a tax penalty" isn't really making it voluntary. That's as "voluntary" as paying taxes is "voluntary." Regardless of which way one "chooses," they are being forced to do something.

The RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with the Privileges of Citizenship.
If you don't like it, you're free to leave. I hear that Bahrain is quite nice....

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Hey, if you don't like the RESPONSIBILITIES OF CITIZENSHIP then don't be one. That's called FREEDOM. It's YOUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.
Now, I'm concerned about the way you tried to turn this around and suggest that *I* in any way was attempting to curtail your views. Since it's not my server, obviously you are mistaken in some way, and you should make an effort to not be innaccurate in the future in that regard.
Y'all gotta ante up if you wanna play cards at the Big Girls' Table, son.... You don't want people thinking your some sort of freeloader, right?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you don't buy car insurance, you go to jail. This is no different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
Scumbag Obama knew he was LYING about Obamacare from the get-go (2008) because he knew if he told the truth about Obamacare he wouldn't get elected.

So he knew of all the exact details of the Affordable Care Act, including the seventeen pages of amendments, BEFORE the document was revised from his initial plan that he sent to Congress in mind 2009....BEFORE....he was elected. Frankly, the President has been much more honest of the ACA and even taken responsibility for it not living up to standards; much unlike former President George W. Bush and all those missing WMDs we were suppose to find in Iraq when we invaded it!

Besides, you never read the document, so your speaking from the point of view of others telling you how to think.....

Um yes, actually, yes, he did.

You DO understand what an 'amendment' is, right? It is generated AFTER a bill is first created. Its is taking the original document and stating how it has been changed. Now, your stating that the President knew of the 17 pages of amendments....BEFORE...the bill was first created and SENT to Congress for those amendments to come into effect?

Wait for it everyone, Phydeaux will figure this out in a few pages from now....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Yeah.. Bush is responsible for Obamacare because of WMD's in Iraq.

Lets go over this one slowly so that you can keep up with the rest of us....

Bush stated he had....what sort of information.....Phydeaux? "Iron Clad Proof' that Saddam was developing biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction. Generally when someone states 'iron clad' it means there is no falsehood. An there are plenty of videos of that President and his cabinet stating to the American people in the months leading up to the invasion in 2003, that Iraq had a huge number of WMDs. We invaded and found.....NOTHING...for WMDs. Or at least no where in the same universe that the President stated at the time. And did he and/or his cabinet come forward and apologize for lying to the nation?

At least the current President can admit fault and take responsibility of the power he has been given. Mr. G. W. Bush was NOT responsible with power. And who did you vote into office, Phydeaux? 'George W. Bush'. What does it say of your ability to judge someone's worthiness to be responsible with power?

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you don't buy car insurance, you go to jail. This is no different.

Bullshit.

A car insurance policy isn't just about protecting you. It also protects the bank that holds the loan on your car and others who might be injured should you cause an accident.

A home owners insurance policy isn't just about protecting you. It also protects the bank that holds the loan on your home and others who might be injured while in your home or on your property.

A health insurance policy protects who?
Banks? No. You don't get a loan to pay for health insurance...at least not yet.
Doctors? No. They have their own insurance to cover their practice.
Hospitals? No. They also have their own insurance.
Others? Only if you choose a joint policy for your family.

Basically, a health insurance policy protects only you. Now, if you want to make it compulsory for people who have families because you think minors should be protected, we can discuss that. But for individuals who carry no such responsibilities, you have no foundation to stand on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Hey, if you don't like the RESPONSIBILITIES OF CITIZENSHIP then don't be one. That's called FREEDOM. It's YOUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.

Now, I'm concerned about the way you tried to turn this around and suggest that *I* in any way was attempting to curtail your views. Since it's not my server, obviously you are mistaken in some way, and you should make an effort to not be innaccurate in the future in that regard.


Y'all gotta ante up if you wanna play cards at the Big Girls' Table, son.... You don't want people thinking your some sort of freeloader, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you don't buy car insurance, you go to jail. This is no different.

Bullshit.

A car insurance policy isn't just about protecting you. It also protects the bank that holds the loan on your car and others who might be injured should you cause an accident.

Full coverage protects the bank from losing money if you total your car. Liability insurance is so that if you are the cause of an accident that injures people or property, the people that you injure or the owners of the property you harm don't have to pay for the damages out of their own pockets.

A home owners insurance policy isn't just about protecting you. It also protects the bank that holds the loan on your home and others who might be injured while in your home or on your property.

A home owner's policy protects the bank from having to pay for damages you may do to the property before it is paid for in case you default on your loan. It also pays the costs for people that might be injured in your home or on your property so that they don't have to cover the cost themselves.

A health insurance policy protects who?
Banks? No. You don't get a loan to pay for health insurance...at least not yet.
Doctors? No. They have their own insurance to cover their practice.
Hospitals? No. They also have their own insurance.
Others? Only if you choose a joint policy for your family.

Basically, a health insurance policy protects only you. Now, if you want to make it compulsory for people who have families because you think minors should be protected, we can discuss that. But for individuals who carry no such responsibilities, you have no foundation to stand on.

If you don't have a health insurance policy, and you then have need of hospital or other medical services and can't cover the cost yourself, who covers the cost? Either the hospital covers the cost, OR the hospital passes the cost on to the other patients, and everyone else has to pay higher cost to cover what you couldn't pay for. To say that a health insurance policy protects only you is very inaccurate. Just like auto insurance and home owner's insurance, health insurance keeps other people from having to pay for what you are responsible for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Hey, if you don't like the RESPONSIBILITIES OF CITIZENSHIP then don't be one. That's called FREEDOM. It's YOUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.

Now, I'm concerned about the way you tried to turn this around and suggest that *I* in any way was attempting to curtail your views. Since it's not my server, obviously you are mistaken in some way, and you should make an effort to not be innaccurate in the future in that regard.


Y'all gotta ante up if you wanna play cards at the Big Girls' Table, son.... You don't want people thinking your some sort of freeloader, right?