RE: He said it would be steak, but ...

RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 10:29:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic What Igor said Then I'll call bullshit on both of you. Personally, I'm just enjoying the hell out of this latest spin. "The problem with Obamacare implementation is that the Republicans didn't help." Translation being, "Democrats are utterly incompetent, when left to their own devices." No. The problems with the ACA are it is too much a right wing plan. Obama wanted a bipartisan plan so he adopted a marginally successful right wing think tanks plan under the assumption that the GOP would go along with it. Instead they fought it, even though it was their plan pushed by their side throughout the 1990's. If the Democrats had just gone ahead with what their base wanted, and what most Americans want, it would have been a single payer plan. Well, that's when Democrats point out that the ideas within the ACA were from the Republicans, and THEN, release the single payer option AFTER they have had a decent experience of the ACA. When you ask folks that understand the material, you will generally find people are either 'ok' with it, or wish for a better system. Not one of them wants to go back to the previous system which had to many problems to count. People's insurance rates increasing by double digit numbers each year, bankruptcy is the 'norm' rather than 'not very often', and not a lot of competition. I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it: 1 ) In the House 2 ) In the Senate 3 ) The White House 4 ) US Supreme Court 5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010 6 ) General Elections of 2012 7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013 8 ) Forty-Three separate bills 9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines! Yeah, I believe that would best define 'incompetent' as being a Republican (and more importantly) and Tea Party trait! How many of those Tea Parties won public office at the national level? NONE!

joether -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 10:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Then I'll call bullshit on both of you. And you should. No matter where I stand on the ACA (jury's out in my mind), the facts on this are simple. The Democrats wanted something. The Republicans didn't want to play along. The Democrats pushed forward anyway. Ergo, it's all on them. I think the Republicans can safely wash their hands of most of it. I'd be annoyed to find that crap like the web site struggles were the result of underfunding from Republican efforts but yeah, the Democrats need to hold the lions share of whatever good/bad comes from the ACA. LOL. Now that is entire amounts of bullshit! Republicans tried to water the bill down as it was proceeding through Congress in 2009-2010. Go read the ACTUAL history books JeffBC! Night after Night, Day after Day, Republicans and conservative groups tried anything and everything to slow, undermine and stop the ACA from proceeding forward. They went so far as to nearly shutting down the whole US Government. Or have you already forgotten that bit of RECENT US History? Republicans can not wash their hands of all their misdeeds, INCLUDING the last one.....EVER. Funny thing is, with all the successes within the ACA, not one conservative on here or nationwide can congratulate the President and Democrats in all honesty and sincerity. Notice that last word, conservatives. The ACA has problems like any law on the books. Heck, look at all the problems created by the 2nd Amendment! You want a bill that is perfect in every possible, conceivable, absolute way? Your going to be waiting a very long, long. LONG....time!

JeffBC -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 10:47:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether LOL. Now that is entire amounts of bullshit! Republicans tried to water the bill down as it was proceeding through Congress in 2009-2010. Go read the ACTUAL history books JeffBC! Night after Night, Day after Day, Republicans and conservative groups tried anything and everything to slow, undermine and stop the ACA from proceeding forward. They went so far as to nearly shutting down the whole US Government. Or have you already forgotten that bit of RECENT US History? Republicans can not wash their hands of all their misdeeds, INCLUDING the last one.....EVER. Oh please. quote: Funny thing is, with all the successes within the ACA, not one conservative on here or nationwide can congratulate the President and Democrats in all honesty and sincerity. Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT. I'll be happier counting wins & losses when reality sets in. As it sits, all I have is a lot of conflicting (and highly spun) news stories regarding rates going up, rates going down, coverage getting screwed over, etc. quote: Notice that last word, conservatives. The ACA has problems like any law on the books. Heck, look at all the problems created by the 2nd Amendment! You want a bill that is perfect in every possible, conceivable, absolute way? Your going to be waiting a very long, long. LONG....time! I gather you think I'm a conservative? Let me disabuse you of that. I think we have a corporatist state and both the democrats and republicans are mostly hand puppets. I am quite confident that neither party gives a rat's ass about anything other than power and money. If you forced me to choose I'd have to say that the Republicans are more directly willing to sell us all into slavery but at least they are more forthright about it. Obama's big cheesy smile while he does it aggravates me.

EdBowie -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 10:57:17 PM)
"...I am quite confident that neither party gives a rat's ass about anything other than power and money." As long as there are people naïve enough to not understand that basic truth, they will be easy pickings for both parties.

lovmuffin -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 11:24:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it: 1 ) In the House 2 ) In the Senate 3 ) The White House 4 ) US Supreme Court 5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010 6 ) General Elections of 2012 7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013 8 ) Forty-Three separate bills 9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines! By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon. Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014.

DaddySatyr -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 11:30:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: joether I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it: 1 ) In the House 2 ) In the Senate 3 ) The White House 4 ) US Supreme Court 5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010 6 ) General Elections of 2012 7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013 8 ) Forty-Three separate bills 9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines! By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon. Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014. Don't blame him for not being able to figure out the rise in costs or the rising deductables, Lov. Numbers aren't his strong suit. There is no doubt that the trials and tribulations of honest, hard-working Americans have failed to reach the ears of the governing elite. Thank God we still have a second amendment.

DomKen -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 11:41:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm The important point is so many Americans could afford the "substandard" plan giving them what they could afford and now they must pay the penalty rather than buy insurance they cannot afford and so those who had insurance no longer have it to allow those who previously lacked insurance to have free or subsidized insurance. No one who could only afford junk insurance won't be able to afford real coverage. If their income is that low they'll get very large subsidies or qualify for Medicaid.

DomKen -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 11:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT. Children able to stay on parents coverage till age 26. Minimum levels of coverage effectively outlawing junk health insurance that only gave the illusion of coverage. Improvements to Medicare part D including shrinking the so called donut hole. Medicare cost saving which have caused Medicare to crack down on fraudulent suppliers like most of the power chair manufacturers. Forbidding denial of coverage for people with preexisting conditions allowing people with numerous chronic conditions to either get insurance at all or to be able to switch jobs and still get the coverage they need. Just to name some of the big ones already in effect.

lovmuffin -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/10/2013 11:53:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: joether I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it: 1 ) In the House 2 ) In the Senate 3 ) The White House 4 ) US Supreme Court 5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010 6 ) General Elections of 2012 7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013 8 ) Forty-Three separate bills 9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines! By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon. Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014. Don't blame him for not being able to figure out the rise in costs or the rising deductables, Lov. Numbers aren't his strong suit. There is no doubt that the trials and tribulations of honest, hard-working Americans have failed to reach the ears of the governing elite. Thank God we still have a second amendment. Yes, thank God for that, "three hundred and fifty-six days a year", into the foreseeable future.

MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 12:24:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT. Children able to stay on parents coverage till age 26. Minimum levels of coverage effectively outlawing junk health insurance that only gave the illusion of coverage. Improvements to Medicare part D including shrinking the so called donut hole. Medicare cost saving which have caused Medicare to crack down on fraudulent suppliers like most of the power chair manufacturers. Forbidding denial of coverage for people with preexisting conditions allowing people with numerous chronic conditions to either get insurance at all or to be able to switch jobs and still get the coverage they need. Just to name some of the big ones already in effect. That's funny. You mentioned what the law states but not actually what is happening. What was being asked is, "Who got insurance that couldn't before."

BenevolentM -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 12:41:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie ... Is she that stupid to not understand that even the ACA is a marketplace, subject to inviolate market rules which have a natural reaction to unnatural interference? I hope that your concerns will be proven unfounded since many are without healthcare, but given what you wrote it is possible that the markets are responding to its novelty which in time will wear off and perhaps also to the fear mongering of the Republicans. If the Republicans truly stayed out of it then no one could blame them for its demise. It could be problem reaction solution at work were the boogie man is an elephant wearing an Obama costume. Who exactly is the evil one here?

DomKen -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 12:53:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT. Children able to stay on parents coverage till age 26. Minimum levels of coverage effectively outlawing junk health insurance that only gave the illusion of coverage. Improvements to Medicare part D including shrinking the so called donut hole. Medicare cost saving which have caused Medicare to crack down on fraudulent suppliers like most of the power chair manufacturers. Forbidding denial of coverage for people with preexisting conditions allowing people with numerous chronic conditions to either get insurance at all or to be able to switch jobs and still get the coverage they need. Just to name some of the big ones already in effect. That's funny. You mentioned what the law states but not actually what is happening. What was being asked is, "Who got insurance that couldn't before." Actually the question was "all the successes of the ACA" as you can see by reading what I quoted.

popeye1250 -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 1:04:39 AM)
They mentioned on the news a few times last week that a record number of people were applying for Medicare to try and by-pass the Obamacare system. Oh, and where's all the Hollywood crowd lately, anyone seen any of them telling people what a great deal Obamacare is? They were out en mass a few years ago but they're all mia now!

tj444 -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 1:19:53 AM)
FR- here is a married couple that is considering getting a divorce cuz they would save thousands on obamacare... (they got married in the first place to get less expensive healthcare thru her employer).. wow.. Is this the extent people have to go to?? [&:] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXIJGawVLk

DomKen -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 2:09:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 They mentioned on the news a few times last week that a record number of people were applying for Medicare to try and by-pass the Obamacare system. No one can apply for Medicare. You are eligible for Medicare if you are over 65 or disabled. Don't you get tired of getting caught just making shit up?

Lucylastic -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 2:54:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 FR- here is a married couple that is considering getting a divorce cuz they would save thousands on obamacare... (they got married in the first place to get less expensive healthcare thru her employer).. wow.. Is this the extent people have to go to?? [&:] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXIJGawVLk hmmmm so she lost her job...no insurance... they havent looked at other pricing yet, before they make their decision, I wonder what kind of insurance they had that was worth getting married for. Surely now , if she is unemployed, she will qualify for subsidies.

EdBowie -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 5:00:31 AM)
Really? And what are these people doing to suddenly become old enough for Medicare? Using the Obama time machine? quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 They mentioned on the news a few times last week that a record number of people were applying for Medicare to try and by-pass the Obamacare system. Oh, and where's all the Hollywood crowd lately, anyone seen any of them telling people what a great deal Obamacare is? They were out en mass a few years ago but they're all mia now!

EdBowie -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 5:04:22 AM)
Yep, all they have to do is keep propping up easily disproven lies for an entire year, and hope that no one notices... worked so well in this lection.[8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: joether I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it: 1 ) In the House 2 ) In the Senate 3 ) The White House 4 ) US Supreme Court 5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010 6 ) General Elections of 2012 7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013 8 ) Forty-Three separate bills 9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines! By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon. Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014.

DesideriScuri -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 7:17:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 FR- here is a married couple that is considering getting a divorce cuz they would save thousands on obamacare... (they got married in the first place to get less expensive healthcare thru her employer).. wow.. Is this the extent people have to go to?? [&:] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXIJGawVLk Is this a live by the sword (less expensive health insurance), die by the sword (more expensive health insurance) example for this marriage? I call for the strengthening of DOMA so we can save bi- and homosexuals from the garbage that is the current state of marriage. [8D]

thishereboi -> RE: He said it would be steak, but ... (11/11/2013 7:40:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC No, instead we have them selling us all into slavery and eroding constitutional rights to the point of non-existence. And all the while, except for a couple Ted Rall types who haven't fled the country, people who actually hold the values of liberalism dear are just impotently watching it happen. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4583308 quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic like I give a rats ass what you call bullshit on... LOL, Like you give a rats ass about whether the whole law is any good or not, Lucy. It has nothing to do with you, beyond being the current storyline in your favorite soap opera. Got to love it when a right winger claims in one post that liberals are eroding people's rights and in another tries to deny someone the right to speak. you would think after all this time, its obvious that Im not gonna shut up. Free speech for everyone but lil ol me, I wonder why, I gotta be told what I think, SNSORTS He didn't say you didn't have the right to speak. He said it didn't have anything to do with you. But please enlighten us. How is your health insurance going to be impacted by the ACA?

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