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RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:02:28 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I think we are all going to wake up one morning in the next year to the news that they have successfully tested a bomb in Israel.



Why would the Israeli's do that? Everybody already knows they have them, built on proven designs that are already tested by the US.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:04:01 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Why would the Israeli's do that? Everybody already knows they have them, built on proven designs that are already tested by the US.

I think he's talking about Iran.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:06:14 AM   
truckinslave


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Yes. Thanks.

A semi-humorous remark about the possibility of Iran attacking Israel with nuclear weapons.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:08:37 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

And how are the Iranians going to deliver this hypothetical bomb? Federal Express?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:14:27 AM   
truckinslave


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Joined: 6/16/2004
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Ship. Ship of the desert. Missile.

Why do you think Israel staunchly defends their right to search ships to Palestine?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:14:39 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Yes. Thanks.

A semi-humorous remark about the possibility of Iran attacking Israel with nuclear weapons.

YW. Sorry for jumping in. No disrespect intended. But to be honest, I also worry that's how we might find out they've actually got a bomb.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:24:08 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, I think they're negotiating for 2 reasons.

1. To buy time for their research efforts to come to fruition.

2. To attempt to drive a small wedge between us and Israel.

You don't suppose sanctions have had a devastating effect on their economy and the mullahs are in fear of internal discontent?

The sanctions have only made the Mullahs more powerful by showing how evil the west is to make the people suffer and then they have martyrs lined up.

Happy, well fed people don't make good martyrs.

My personal opinion is that the sanctions, especially regarding banking, has cut their income in about half (from what I have read).. and is a major reason why they are even bothering to "talk" to the "West".. and by "West", that means mostly the US.. which has shown itself to be untrustworthy (spying, history of meddling & illegal attacks, etc) so if the "West" doesn't trust Iran,.. then why would anyone expect Iran to trust the US?.. even US allies & neutral countries no longer trust the US.. and any "friendly" mid-east countries too.. and some are making moves/plans to reduce US influence in their country.. At this point, no country/govt can be "trusted".. jmo..

Also, if the US dollar is eventually eased out/ousted as the world's reserve currency, then that cuts US influence off at its knees.. and countries are working to do that (that's part of the reason for the euro)..

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703313304576132170181013248 Why the Dollar's Reign Is Near an End

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:24:54 AM   
truckinslave


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Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No disrespect intended.


Seriously- thanks.
I don't see how anyone could have seen "disrespect" in your comment; certainly I didn't.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:30:57 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Ship. Ship of the desert. Missile.

Why do you think Israel staunchly defends their right to search ships to Palestine?



Exactly. And it's why they maintain air defenses like no place else on the planet.

It wouldn't be the risk of sparking a full out nuclear war that would keep Iran from launching their very first bomb in a sneak attack at Israel, but the high risk of failure.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 9:55:20 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

No disrespect intended.


Seriously- thanks.
I don't see how anyone could have seen "disrespect" in your comment; certainly I didn't.

Just being polite.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 10:02:37 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Exactly. And it's why they maintain air defenses like no place else on the planet.

It could come into the West Bank or Gaza in pieces and get assembled later. Even if it exploded in some underground tunnel it would be bad enough.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 10:05:10 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Myself I see nothing to lose... Right now it is too late to stop their atomic production and a bomb attack next year will be no less effective than one tomorrow. So... the talks in my opinion are not to stop bomb production but to show the world we tried to avoid a confrontation and reduce the political fallout when we and Israel do our best to bomb their abilities to hell...And hope for the best .

Our best bet to stop this would have been to take their ability out 5 years ago... but too late now.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/10/2013 10:13:48 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 11:06:14 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

when we and Israel do our best to bomb their abilities to hell..


The first chance for that is 1/20/2017.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 11:07:21 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Our best bet to stop this would have been to take their ability out 5 years ago... but too late now


No.
Our best chance was to deny them access to nuclear energy.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Iran - 11/10/2013 11:15:55 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Myself I see nothing to lose... Right now it is too late to stop their atomic production and a bomb attack next year will be no less effective than one tomorrow. So... the talks in my opinion are not to stop bomb production but to show the world we tried to avoid a confrontation and reduce the political fallout when we and Israel do our best to bomb their abilities to hell...And hope for the best .

Our best bet to stop this would have been to take their ability out 5 years ago... but too late now.

Butch

How quickly we forget the propaganda ground out during the run up to our attack on Iraq

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Iran - 11/11/2013 6:45:25 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, I think they're negotiating for 2 reasons.

1. To buy time for their research efforts to come to fruition.

2. To attempt to drive a small wedge between us and Israel.

You don't suppose sanctions have had a devastating effect on their economy and the mullahs are in fear of internal discontent?

The sanctions have only made the Mullahs more powerful by showing how evil the west is to make the people suffer and then they have martyrs lined up.

Happy, well fed people don't make good martyrs.

My personal opinion is that the sanctions, especially regarding banking, has cut their income in about half (from what I have read).. and is a major reason why they are even bothering to "talk" to the "West".. and by "West", that means mostly the US.. which has shown itself to be untrustworthy (spying, history of meddling & illegal attacks, etc) so if the "West" doesn't trust Iran,.. then why would anyone expect Iran to trust the US?.. even US allies & neutral countries no longer trust the US.. and any "friendly" mid-east countries too.. and some are making moves/plans to reduce US influence in their country.. At this point, no country/govt can be "trusted".. jmo..

Also, if the US dollar is eventually eased out/ousted as the world's reserve currency, then that cuts US influence off at its knees.. and countries are working to do that (that's part of the reason for the euro)..

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703313304576132170181013248 Why the Dollar's Reign Is Near an End


Yeah. Which is why I was opposed to the US promoting the eurozone. I was opposed to the IMF bailing out the Eurozone.
I was opposed to US making good on $192 billion payout via AIG.

Why we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot is beyond me.


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Iran - 11/11/2013 6:58:37 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What are your thoughts on the negotiations with Iran?

I think they are playing the West, and we are all going to wake up one morning in the next year to the news that they have successfully tested a bomb.


Iran has been playing the West since at least 1979. Heck, one can say the entire Middle East has been playing the West since long before then, mainly due to our insatiable thirst for oil and our irrational religious sentimentality regarding the so-called "Holy Land."

They have us pegged and they know how to play the West. They knew how to do that during the hostage crisis from 1979-81, and they knew even better when they persuaded our government to trade arms for hostages so they could get money to fight communists in Nicaragua. During the 1980s, our government was far more caught up in battling the "Evil Empire," which led to a lot of strange bedfellows in the Middle East - a very complicated mess which we're still dealing with today.

We wanted to keep the Soviets out, keep the oil flowing, and protect the Holy Land all at the same time - three objectives we've managed to maintain and balance, albeit shakily. Even though we don't have to worry about the Soviets anymore, the Russians are still potential major players in the region.

We put ourselves into this box, so we have no other viable choice other than to try to talk our way out. We had to talk to the Soviets when they got the bomb, as well as to the Chinese. We thought it would spell the end of the world - and it might still come to that someday. Even nations like India and Pakistan have nuclear capability. We might be able to delay Iranian nuclear development, but I don't think we can stop it in the long run.

Iran may be playing the West, but we've made it easy for them to do that. The West has been playing itself for far too long. However, I think that negotiating with Iran and trying to reach some diplomatic solution is, at the very least, the practical obligatory move at this point. We always have to try to negotiate first before we take it to the next level - if it even comes to that. Other than that, we can try to throw money at the opposition groups and try to destabilize the regime; a little less risky to ourselves than openly attacking them, but possibly more dangerous in the long run if we back the wrong faction - something we've done before in Iran and in other countries.

At this point, we don't trust them, and they don't trust us. Negotiations might seem like an exercise in futility, but we don't have many practical options right now. We're not in as strong a position as we once were in the world, so we may need to play it closer to the vest for a while.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Iran - 11/11/2013 1:10:13 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Yeah. Which is why I was opposed to the US promoting the eurozone. I was opposed to the IMF bailing out the Eurozone.
I was opposed to US making good on $192 billion payout via AIG.

Why we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot is beyond me.

Maybe because the EU is a major destination for our exports. Would have continued the cascade of economic disaster late in '08.

Not too sympathetic to AIG so would agree with you except so many major banks were holding AIG insurance promises on Mortgage bundle debts letting them sink would have contributed to the cascade of disaster. Too big to fail. Doncha hate it?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Iran - 11/11/2013 1:17:09 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

At this point, we don't trust them, and they don't trust us. Negotiations might seem like an exercise in futility, but we don't have many practical options right now. We're not in as strong a position as we once were in the world, so we may need to play it closer to the vest for a while.

Why should they trust us? We overthrew their democratic government and imposed a Shah and his terror police.

Additionally, one has to wonder how Americans would react if a group of nations demanded we cease building some part of our infrastructure and imposed financial and trade sanctions on us that caused us spiraling inflation. We would be freakin outraged and defiant I think!

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Iran - 11/11/2013 1:55:25 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Additionally, one has to wonder how Americans would react if a group of nations demanded we cease building some part of our infrastructure and imposed financial and trade sanctions on us that caused us spiraling inflation. We would be freakin outraged and defiant I think!



Like say, a global warming treaty?

Maybe Tehran will get that big earthquake they say is coming, and give them something else to focus on for a while, but with or without talking, I think they are going to have their bomb soon enough.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 40
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