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RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 4:50:14 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds


The problem is that they are not volunteers. It is attendees. Key difference.




I agree... This makes it very different. They are venturing in exploring their sexuality looking to have a good time. Huge emotions and other things are pumping that is for sure. Rather similar to those night clubs that everyone head out to. I thing that is what is happening to a lot of communities. The small bar where everyone know everyone has suddenly changed with the volume of people coming into the bar. Most everyone is a stranger it seems coming to have a good time. I don't thing many come with the idea to learn anything specifically. After all.... Most didn't need to learn to fuck! Fucking well that is another thing but for the most part it wasn't something you thought or talked about learning to do better.

I think after people watch and see... That is when it will cause some people to step back. The best way people I think people in the community to make a difference is just do what they do. Lead by example so to speak and just do it! Some will learn.. Some will not..... Frankly.. If they do or don't... Not my problem. But I will be me and do what I do...

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 4:54:56 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Nobody asked you to justify anything, in the spirit of ribbing.

The lifestyle is full of dominants who say, "I was just joking," when their gambits to get a handle on someone fail. It's an attempt to save face and standing when they are called out for trying to cross a boundary.

I recommend clear ownership of responsibility and boundary at all times. One exercise that helps develop this -- and that helps one detect when others violate it -- is to use active voice in conversation at all times. No passive voice at all. That way you are always assigning a responsible person to every act. Often, when people use passive voice in their speech, they are constructing wiggle room as a defense, so they can say, "That's not what I meant, you're the one with the problem," because they can interpret what they said in whatever way is more convenient at the moment, to avoid ownership of their words.

TLDR: healthy people try their best to be clear and unequivocal.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 5:22:24 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		Considering that the 'community' has never made the blindest bit of difference to how I run my personal relationships, I don't see how this is going to have any effect on me at all. I will still have the same relationships and I will still hang round in pubs with the same BDSMers insulting each other's music taste. As long as people don't try and take action to affect my life, it means nothing to me. I certainly don't care about how people I have no interest in view me.

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If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 5:27:06 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
We had to really love leather and believe in it contrary to the mentally ill claims of the DSM. We had to stand fast despite the rejection from church and society.



I hear people say shit like this and have to say it is entirely opposite of my experience.

The Old Guard gay leathermen I knew where totally interested in sticking their dicks into a new young thing every night. And not much else.

I didn't know anyone who talked about "the community" or the other stuff I hear the het leather types talk about.

And I sure as hell didn't know anyone who kept a relationship going for an entire summer. Forget about still being together the following summer when Fire Island opened back up.

Honestly, this comes across as sour grapes. You used to be a big frog in a small pool and now you're just one of many little frogs in a giant pool.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 5:30:17 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Although I have to say that I manage a volunteer org now and I don't find the problem dramatically different. I still have to "earn my chops" as the leader. I still have to build loyalty. I still have to provide motivation and inspiration. I still have to paint a clear and compelling vision. I still have to deal with all the interpersonal drama. Honestly, it doesn't seem all that different than doing the same in a massive grey cubicle farm in corporate america.

. . . The social problem being presented here, though, is right up my alley and seems like child's play compared to other problems I have dealt with.


About 30 years ago I was a division head for the National PTA (Yes, that's right, the PTA). I was a staffer for a nation wide volunteer organization, and I think I can say dealing with volunteers is different from regular paid employees, but not that different. Being a good leader as Jeff proscribes is crucial.

Certainly huge influxes of people have the potential to cause problems, and most especially generate negative publicity and such. But the real problem makers won't last long anywhere, they never do. They are in constant need of new horizons to shit on.

I think in the circumstances sheisreeds described, I would forgo attending private parties for a time, if I was not in a leadership position with good infrastructure to help sort things (and it sounds like that had not been created yet).

I do realize public play is *very* important for some, and having to forgo it due to clueless people who can't or won't follow the rules has to be beyond frustrating. It does sound like things are getting resolved.



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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 5:43:40 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Other than the promotion of cheaply made crap, I don't see that part as the problem.

The underlying stuff that some of the folks are talking about on the thread...... Yeah, it's out there. Heck, it's here, even in this little corner of the world. We restructured our little community and we're still kind of struggling with it. We don't have stand and model so much up here. (Kind of hard to do that when it hits 30 below.) We still have the second 'net revolution.

The problem with making our clubs/groups/events accessible to everyone is the very fact that our clubs/groups/events become accessible to everyone. That includes all they bring with them.

In a little group like Mine, you can have ten or so old timers lighting the candle of doing the right thing. Get two or three 'newer' to BDSM folks thinking they ARE Christian Grey to come along, do stupid shit, ruin the reputation of the community in their wake, and then what are you left with? Oh, and don't forget, the same openness that got these people into the community is the same publicity that tells the world that your group/club/organization has the asshole that scarred somebody for life because he didn't know what he was doing.

Personally, I don't give a damn how many folks play with fuzzy handcuffs in the privacy of their own home. Stick a whip in somebody's hand because it sounded really cool in a fiction book and turn them loose in a community play space and (excuse the pun) you've got a whole 'nother bowl of whacks.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/10/2013 10:50:26 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		Far too much of this thread is, "HEY YOU KIDS! GET OFF OF MY LAWN!" or if you'd rather, The Eternal September. A lot of you are acting just like the internet literati did back in '93.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 12:50:33 AM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The lifestyle is full of dominants who say, "I was just joking," when their gambits to get a handle on someone fail. It's an attempt to save face and standing when they are called out for trying to cross a boundary.

I recommend clear ownership of responsibility and boundary at all times. One exercise that helps develop this -- and that helps one detect when others violate it -- is to use active voice in conversation at all times. No passive voice at all. That way you are always assigning a responsible person to every act. Often, when people use passive voice in their speech, they are constructing wiggle room as a defense, so they can say, "That's not what I meant, you're the one with the problem," because they can interpret what they said in whatever way is more convenient at the moment, to avoid ownership of their words.

TLDR: healthy people try their best to be clear and unequivocal.

You want unadultered speech, you asked for it.
We do not know you or anyone else here on the forums well enough to gage your experience level.
We were giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not another Christian Grey wannabe.
Or the type of Dom who preys upon unsuspecting next-to-newbie female subs.
We found your anecdote to be antithetical to the reasonable practice of safe-sex for newcomers.
The exchange of fluids can take place without having vanilla-type sex (via blood, other forms of physical contact involving bodily fluids).
What you do in your private life is your own business.
Once you make it a matter of public record, you open yourself up for public scrutiny.

It is entirely possible, however, that it is you who are being preyed upon by this influx of horny, desperate housewives.
One man's oasis is another man's poisoned well.
We were not joking. Ribbing is not the same as speaking in jest.
Since you erroneously perceived this as a personal attack, we did not and do not want to fan the flames.
If you want to regard that as passive-aggressiveness, that is no skin off our noses.
Your opinion matters to us about as much as our opinion matters to you.

Back to the original post. ResidentSadist, we know some younger people who are disdainful of the BDSM community.
These are friends of friends ranging in age from 20-35 who run in their own pack and call their brand of BDSM "UV" or Ultra-Violence.
They wear their casual dress clothes to parties and laugh to themselves when they see any leather folks or others wearing fetish gear/apparel.
Nothing new with the younger or newer crowd poking fun at the older crowd, or presuming to know it all instead of having a teachable spirit.
Thank goodness they are not all like that, and some do appreciate learning technique from the experiential wisdom of their elders.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 12:55:09 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Don't you guys have fetish clubs?
The UK has numerous large fetish clubs, Torture Garden being the largest.

Fetish clubs, at least in the UK, tend to attract anyone from your full on rubberist to people who have a vague interest in kink and want to see what its all about. I have DM'd for Torture Garden when there's been 2 thousand people through the door, 500 of which are scrambling over the dungeon furniture in a giggly fashion. Its just about impossible to DM a place like that. At best you can keep people from sitting on the dungeon equipment and watch out for bodily fluids. The people who venture as far as the dungeon in these sort of clubs are curious but not overly into anything much beyond a bit of bondage and a light flogging. Those more serious wouldn't dream of touching the dungeon in such a club.

Although you do see some wide eyed folks in the BDSM clubs, fooling around and doing things like touching without permission, trying to join in a scene uninvited or generally being daft just doesn't happen. Rules have to be abided by or that punter is out on his ear. If the 50 shades crowd went along to most London BDSM clubs they would be shocked, repulsed and probably traumatized for life!! In a fet club, with much more of a party atmosphere, the 50 Shades crowd would be able to explore to their hearts content without restriction.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 3:16:36 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Maria, there are a lot less fetish clubs here. They are mostly in large cities on either the East or West coast.

Here where I live in the Midwest, Indianapolis, the capital city of Indiana, there is no public dungeon. There is one goth bar that opens to alternative lifestyles once a week, last I heard it was on a Tuesday.

There are a small handful of bars where CDs are welcome.

This is in a large metropolitan area of about 2 million.

There is plenty of kink here, but it is much more behind closed doors.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 3:39:48 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

Far too much of this thread is, "HEY YOU KIDS! GET OFF OF MY LAWN!" or if you'd rather, The Eternal September. A lot of you are acting just like the internet literati did back in '93.


That's possibly not going to reassure people, considering that the mainstreaming of the Interwebs did bring with it a lot of people whose primary focus was commercial along with increased attention from the state.... On the other hand, most of us got over that and realised that we just had to adapt. Otherwise we'd end up as 'cyberpunks' who were terrified of the future which is a bit contradictory.

Hopefully something similar will happen here over time.

As a pedantic point, I'd place the big mainstreaming of the net as having taken place in '96, although '93 certainly laid the groundwork for that.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 3:56:29 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		ChatteParfaitt, is that because of the local laws?

The thing is, fet clubs are much easier to get of the ground because they don't even need to include a dungeon or if they do it can just be a very inconspicuous play space. You just tell the venue owner, I want to run a whacky party for the weird and wonderful!



_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 4:09:29 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		It's the result of long standing right wing Christian attitudes, thus the 'Bible Belt.'

Here where I live there are still 'blue laws.' You cannot buy alcohol on Sunday, nor on Christmas day. This in a nation that supposedly separates church and state.

The US is much less sexually open than Europe and the UK, and this is most especially true in the huge middle part of the country.

The coasts are much more liberal, but still I would say significantly less liberal than Europe and the UK.

As I said, it's all behind closed doors here.

But, 50 Shades has made an impact. My therapist started reading the series and brought it up before I did. I just didn't think she'd be exposed to that. From the understanding she's gained by dealing with me, she could tell it was all fantasy BS, BTW.

Which means understanding is coming, slowly but surely.









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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 4:14:30 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		It's also worth remembering that those of us in the UK have the advantage that there's a big cultural expectation of "minding one's own business" which doesn't necessarily exist to the same extent elsewhere.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 4:24:48 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I think that's a great point.

Here, there is much one-upmanship based on superficial things like the car you drive or the home you own, which has created it's own class system to an extent.

Fortunately, the small town I live in is close to a huge university that brings more liberal attitudes and more social non-conformity to my immediate environment. It's the only way I can continue to live here.

Our local group is great. But a fetish club here? Few are so out front about their sexual preferences.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 5:15:49 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Wow, I find what you say hard to comprehend!

I've always been able to take the London scene for granted, its the same in Paris. Nobody bats an eyelid in either city if someone walks around on a collar and leash, in latex or at cross dressers. I even know a guy that used to rig up his two pony girls to a trap and go down to the local pub in the evening, where he would tie them up outside. So long as the girls weren't exposing any rude bits and so long as he had lights and reflectors on his trap, the police turned a blind eye. Another friend of mine got her two male subs to carry her on a carrying chair across London bridge in the rush hour. Again she and they showed no rude bits and the only people who took any notice were the Chinese tourists who all took pictures.

The best had to be in Prague though. I found an outdoor market with BDSM stall right next to a baby clothes stall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Here, there is much one-upmanship based on superficial things like the car you drive or the home you own, which has created it's own class system to an extent.

Different end of the spectrum. Where I live, if you drive around in a flash car you are very much frowned upon. When a friend from the north recently picked me up in her open top merc, I pretended I'd lost something in the foot-well until we were well out of site of my neighbours!!

Theres a huge respect for the working class here and if someone calls you a peasant, its a complement!

< Message edited by MariaB -- 11/11/2013 5:21:30 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 5:21:14 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The best had to be in Prague though. I found an outdoor market with BDSM stall right next to a baby clothes stall.


Makes perfect sense to me, that's how I got knocked up.

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Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 5:23:30 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The best had to be in Prague though. I found an outdoor market with BDSM stall right next to a baby clothes stall.


Makes perfect sense to me, that's how I got knocked up.


I'm intrigued... do tell?!?!

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 5:27:47 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		We're not there yet. Although there are places in NYC, Boston, Washington DC, San Francisco, LA, Atlanta, New Orleans and other large cities where you can find fetish clubs.

Many people from your side of the pond don't understand how huge the US is as compared to the UK. Here's a comparison map:

http://www.sarmonster.net/UK.htm

Some states are more open than others, and Florida is a great example. There's lots of sex and kink going on, but many sex laws are still draconian.





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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- - 11/11/2013 5:32:43 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Different end of the spectrum. Where I live, if you drive around in a flash car you are very much frowned upon. When a friend from the north recently picked me up in her open top merc, I pretended I'd lost something in the foot-well until we were well out of site of my neighbours!!


Oh, god, yeah. We'll put up with pretty much anything in Yorkshire, as long as you don't commit the unforgivable sin of acting "a bit flash".

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Many people from your side of the pond don't understand how huge the US is as compared to the UK.


As the old joke goes, Americans think 100 years is a long time and Brits think 100 miles is a long distance.


_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 100
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