Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Should this "child" have been aborted?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/24/2013 4:47:26 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

why not head out now for a Margarita and have a nice evening



Nah. The sun isn't even down here just yet. Probably later.

I did manage to pick up some hard to find ammunition at the gun show though, so my time was far better spent than watching Vincent dance around the questions he's afraid to answer, and the homework he's afraid to do.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/24/2013 4:49:33 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		you clearly arent using the right motivation....
Im certainly not surprised

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/24/2013 5:04:01 PM   
Toysinbabeland


Posts: 1693
Joined: 3/4/2012
From: the other end of Cx's leash
Status: offline 		Fr:
This mother opted to receive and love her child unconditionally.
That's her privilege as a mother, not to be questioned.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/24/2013 7:56:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you clearly arent using the right motivation....



Well if you know of way I can get the interwebs to deliver a 3 second zap from my stun gun, by all means tell me where to download the app!

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/24/2013 8:03:45 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Oh man i wouldnt share that........specially with you!!!
Having flashbacks to the simpsons episode.... when they went for therapy,,,,zap zap


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/24/2013 8:13:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I probably would damage the equipment.

But we could go out for frosty cold milkshakes after!

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 9:12:49 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

why not head out now for a Margarita and have a nice evening



Nah. The sun isn't even down here just yet. Probably later.

I did manage to pick up some hard to find ammunition at the gun show though, so my time was far better spent than watching Vincent dance around the questions he's afraid to answer, and the homework he's afraid to do.

I wonder is it presumption and arrogance that moves you to assign a research to me for a point that you wish to make. Or is it some timidity that motivates you to lurk around the edges unable to summon the courage to make your point straight forward whatever it may be and supply supporting evidence yourself? Such is the protocol that most posters follow on these threads. I should research a link for a point that you did not even clearly identify, not knowing if it is pertinent to the OP or a divergence? I should do your work for you? Well, let me look at my choices here: arrogance or cowardly? Maybe laziness? Or too many Margaritas? Gosh, gee willikers, that is a difficult decision for me. Quite embarrassed for you though. How freakin silly and whiney your behavior seems to me!

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/25/2013 9:46:00 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 9:15:12 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You let something die by not intervening. There is no disposal. This thing could only have survived by intense medical intervention.

"This thing could only have survived by intense medical intervention?" You're just making that shit up.

In almost all cases, anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated because there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition, and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as futile efforts. Some clinicians and medical ethicists view even the provision of nutrition and hydration as medically futile. ~Source

Most of these babies die within hours, but Nicholas survived a few days, then a few months ... He somehow survived without doctors, or tubes. Sheena says he even shows signs of emotion. "He's smiling. He's laughed for the first time. It was wonderful to hear him laugh..." ~OP Story Link

So if you're done playing doctor now, I'll ask again. How do you propose we go about "letting" him die?

The first paragraph you quoted seems to confirm DK's position. And, it is a long freakin way from eugenics (addressing the concerns of DS)

Not at all. He claims this child recevied "intense medical intervention," when in actual fact these children rarely if ever receive intense medical intervention and the only information available is that this boy in fact did not. In short, he's just making shit up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
He is "let" die by allowing his vital organs to shut down. The same is currently done for children born before 24 weeks gestation.

How do you propose to "let" someone die who even without "intense medical intervention" nevertheless declines to cooperate? What should have been done? Withholding nourishment was suggested, but only a psychopath could argue that starving him to death would simply be "letting" him die. Got any better ideas for how to dispose of him without actually disposing of him?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/25/2013 9:32:03 AM >

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 9:21:19 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland

Fr:
This mother opted to receive and love her child unconditionally.
That's her privilege as a mother, not to be questioned.

Toys, I think you may be giving too much credit to the notion that the mother acted through free will rather than the influence of hormones. How much choice did she really have? And as an aside, if anyone wishes to go down this trail, none of us may have as much free will as we like to credit ourselves. Maybe that is best left for another thread however.

(in reply to Toysinbabeland)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 9:45:29 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Not at all. He claims this child recevied "intense medical intervention," when in actual fact these children rarely if ever receive intense medical intervention and the only information available is that this boy in fact did not. In short, he's just making shit up.

As yes, you may be right on that point. My bad.

quote:

How do you propose to "let" someone die who, despite withholding "intense medical intervention," declines to cooperate? What should have been done? Withholding nourishment was suggested, but only a psychopath could argue that starving him to death would simply be "letting" him die. Got any better ideas?

I don't know the protocol for this situation, so I can only guess. At birth the docs expected he would not last more than two or three hours. But life can be pretty tenacious even without a brain. When Nicholas did not succumb after a few hours or even before, I assume he was placed in a neonatal incubator. At some point they must have given him nourishment and water. So, I think it is situational. My "better" idea would be to ask the court to assign an advocate and plea to have him institutionalized as vegetative, or brain dead. I personally find that more socially palatable. Yes, yes, I understand it is the mom's right to chose to birth Nicholas. But it does not follow that she has the right to parade about an insentient creature and call it her child. That would be for the court to decide I think.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 12:48:04 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

My "better" idea would be to ask the court to assign an advocate and plea to have him institutionalized as vegetative, or brain dead. I personally find that more socially palatable.

When did the love of a mother for her child become socially unpalatable?

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

it does not follow that she has the right to parade about an insentient creature and call it her child. That would be for the court to decide I think.

What do you mean "call it" her child? The boy is her child. And if he can laugh and smile and knows his mom and grandmom, then he's evidently sentient in some way. Doesn't reality count for anything with you?

K.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 12:51:27 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
It's irrelevant. If that women wants to care for a person shaped lump of flesh that is her concern. Not one dime of tax money should go to it's care though.



Ouch.

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 1:07:31 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


That would be the first ethical issue. But don't ethical obligations extend to a duty to provide dignity?

Finally, did Nickolas possess a soul, and did that make any difference?

Some of my info comes from the wiki article.



How did he not have dignity? And of course he had a soul.

http://newyorktoimes.blogspot.com/2010/06/touching-story-going-around-internet.html

Apparently this is only a story, but I think it proves a point.








_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 1:24:49 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I think whether a woman carries a child to term is a personal decision.

Yes, I do believe this boy was born a human, yes with a "defect", but still a human being capable of giving and receiving during his lifetime however long or short. Just like anyone else.

Who are we to judge, to decide? Who has a soul, who doesn't? Who should live and who shouldn't? Not my call.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 1:26:25 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
It's irrelevant. If that women wants to care for a person shaped lump of flesh that is her concern. Not one dime of tax money should go to it's care though.


But society should pay for needles for drug addicts and abortions for "the less fortunate" who have the sense of moral obligation of a jack rabbit?

Government should force people to pay for the welfare of others?

But this woman shouldn't get a dime from the public trough? I should be forced to subsidize the pot-smoking piece of shit that could get a job but prefers not to? If contributing to society is the deciding factor, I know a bunch of POSes that need to be thrown off the public dole.

Unfortunately, this is typical of the lunatic left; freedom of choice as long as one chooses correctly.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 11/25/2013 1:34:48 PM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 4:54:33 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline 		Funny cartoon, but it's a shame the last bubble didn't read " you can choose whether you want an abortion or not"

but I guess if it told the truth it wouldn't have been worth posting

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 5:20:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Funny cartoon, but it's a shame the last bubble didn't read " you can choose whether you want an abortion or not"

A shame it wasn't spelled out as if unto a child, eh? Yes, I see the need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

but I guess if it told the truth it wouldn't have been worth posting

The truth is, being free to choose an abortion implies the freedom not to.

K.

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 5:27:08 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline 		It's never really been spun that way though, has it?

Pro choice equals murder is the usual spin.

Shame that the masses aren't quite as sharp as you think they are

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 7:53:53 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I wonder is it presumption and arrogance that moves you to assign a research to me for a point that you wish to make. Or is it some timidity that motivates you to lurk around the edges unable to summon the courage to make your point straight forward whatever it may be and supply supporting evidence yourself? Such is the protocol that most posters follow on these threads. I should research a link for a point that you did not even clearly identify, not knowing if it is pertinent to the OP or a divergence? I should do your work for you? Well, let me look at my choices here: arrogance or cowardly? Maybe laziness? Or too many Margaritas? Gosh, gee willikers, that is a difficult decision for me. Quite embarrassed for you though. How freakin silly and whiney your behavior seems to me!



It's an opportunity for you to learn a little something, Vincent, and you were instructed to Google Gabriel Fernandez so you would be denied the lame libbie tactic of attacking the source material.

You brought in this whole subject of question dodging, Vincent, and most hypocritically I might add. I gave you my answers, and you just dance and fling poo rather than manning up for a legitimate discussion when they come back your way.

Should the government have the power to force a child such as we have in your OP aborted? Should the doctor/hospital have a standard policy directive to execute it at birth?

And hey there, hi there, ho there, old man. Should they be the ones to decide when your life has no quality left, and when to stop feeding you, and providing for your medical needs?





_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/25/2013 8:50:46 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

It's never really been spun that way though, has it?

Pro choice equals murder is the usual spin.

Shame that the masses aren't quite as sharp as you think they are

Yes, you have such a nuanced point of view. If only everyone could be so sharp.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/25/2013 9:01:18 PM >

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109