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njlauren -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (12/4/2013 8:54:51 PM)
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"But boys cannot dress as submissive girls? "
"You want to talk about sexism? I'm not the one telling you what you can wear lest you be judged on why you wear it. Nobody in the sissy gender ever tried to be that exclusionary. You are the sexist ones. Thanks to those who at least attempted to take this discussion seriously. I regret that I am too jaded to give your posts the time they deserved. Goodbye."
The problem I see is you are so sensitive to being judged, you are the one not reading what other people posted, you go off on these rants assuming people are attacking you, and all I can assume is you enjoy it, because a lot of what you wrote is all over the place. You are turning one specific criticism, that 'forcing' a male sub to dress up as a woman to humiliate him, and turning it into people condemning CD subs, gender play, or 'sissy play', when I at least and some others, differentiated out why the humiliation aspect of being dressed up is the problem. You know as well as I do that there is a difference in dressing up a male sub as a girl and treating that person as a slut is very different than dressing them up and then telling them they are less a man because they are dressed as a girl, they are no longer a man, and so forth. Some said they could never do this kind of play, and I simply explained why they felt like it, it is like there are male and female doms who won't do rape play, or nazi role play, because of what it means to them.
I think you need to listen MX, before assuming that people were criticizing your right to do as you wish or to do this kind of play. You have the right to do as you wish, but you asked how people felt about the fetish, and people told you. No one said you shouldn't do it, no one said you are wrong to do it, they simply said why they personally objected to it; you asked for an opinion and then got upset when not everyone said "oooh, I love to take a man and emasculate him by wearing a dress". They aren't criticizing getting dressed as a woman, they aren't criticizing CD's or gender fucking or whatever, they are saying that they feel that the humiliation in 'forced femme' is misogynistic, specifically the humiliation play where getting dressed up in women's clothing is humiliating because it, in your own words, emasculates the person, makes them less of a man, etc....in the kind of play I am talking about, the humiliation isn't about being dressed differently, it isn't about dressing as a female sub, it is that the person is getting off on being humiliated, and the humiliation is in being emasculated, denied their masculinity, whatever, and this is the specific thing people are reacting to.
Anyone who has grown up a boy should be able to understand where they are coming from. What do too many fathers tell a boy who is crying? Man up and stop acting like a girl. What does a football coach tell a player who they think isn't tough enough? They are acting like a girl. In my generation, if a boy had long hair, they were called suzy and fag and whatnot,simply because they had long hair (and this, mind you, was in the early 70's...). Play a sport badly and you were told you threw like a girl; a boy who was picky was called an old woman; in my high school the shy boys who had trouble asking girls out and such, were told they should put on a dress cause they would never be a man.....and this is not rare, this is sadly to this day very common. You think given that that most boys don't internalize that things associated with being a women are softer, weaker, not worthy? (I would love to introduce them to some of the women I have met in the fitness community, many of them in the military, 5'4 gal who can squat 350 poiunds and weighs about 125 herself, another woman who can deadlift 300 pounds, and a woman I got to know, ex Israeli military, who looked fabulous in heels and leather but who also could carry a 250 pound man through an obstacle course....). It is the association that women=weak that drives the kind of humiliation play that is common in the forced femme situation (it isn't in all cases), and this is what they are reacting to. No one denied you the right to do as you wish, it is you who are doing the denying, you asked for opinions and then decided to pull a Captain Queeg, that everyone was against you, when the most anyone said was they don't like forced femme because they feel the humiliation is misogynistic.
A number of people also said that it isn't that you or anyone with the fetish is misogynistic towards women, but rather that your humiliation is an internalized attitude that doesn't reflect how you necessarily see women. The kind of belief is internalized, it is caught, and unless you want to deny that in male culture when you grow up as male there isn't all this reinforcement of the idea that anything with women=weakness and for a male to adopt any of those attributes=weakening the male, it is understandable why some women would object to it.
I also think you are stretching the persecution thing a bit much. I didn't see anyone on here persecuting anyone, and having see real persecution, having dealt with real ugliness as a trans person, no one here was doing it. You are sensitive, I get that, but I think you have to take a step back and realize that no one was stopping you and I never, ever saw anyone interfere with a scene or anything else that dealt with your kind of fetish. It is very easy to get sensitized, there are plenty of trans people who focus everything they experience by being trans, you can ask them about the weather and they will say 'as a trans person, it is cold', or if someone doesn't like them, it immediately is because they are transphobic, and it isn't healthy. I have been denied access to play parties because I was trans, I had one stupid leather dyke who was a throwback to the dyke separatist days at a leather even I was part of constantly calling me he and him and using my male name when I was Lauren with this group, in presentation and so forth (fortunately, no one else would put up with it, and they told the dried up hag to either be respectful or take a hike, the last emphasized by bear friend of mine who literally is the size of a bear *lol*), so I know it exists, but it is self defeating to try and find it where it doesn't exist.
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