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njlauren -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/27/2013 8:36:31 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: igor2003
quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
~FRing it~
I've done my best to stay out of the fray on this, but Ive been reading and I've learned quite a bit. I agree, this subject is way bigger and there are many motivations as to why it is what it is.
So my question is specifically for MxyBunny (or perhaps a lurker who has read, but not said anything yet) because you are the only one I know so far that has identified as CD or a sissy. And if Ive gotten it twisted or I've mislabeled you, please accept my apology ahead of time because I promise that wasn't my intention at all. But it of course can be answered by anyone who is so inclined.
My question: if taking a break from the expectations placed on a man, why is women's clothing specifically the vehicle that drives the humiliation you get from this? I get that it's not what society would expect of a man, but you can get that same conflict with what society expects of a man by...say...wearing faux cat ears clipped to your head and a cat tail tied around your waist. It would fit the bill as far as emasculation, wouldn't it? And dare I say that it would probably cause some humiliation no matter what venue you might find yourself in as far as your day-to-day life goes. I don't know about anyone else, but Id certainly notice something like that. And personally, I doubt a cat would care one way or the other. As I look at my cat passed out and dead to the world asleep across the room from me, he clearly doesn't give a fuck about much of anything at the moment...let alone you using parts of what is commonly associated with his body as an implement to humiliate and denigrate you as a man.
I honestly get that "misogyny" is a very loaded term that people don't want to get painted with. I get that and I honestly can't say that I blame people for feeling that way. And while I am far from a "Feminazi" (a term I've seen in this thread), I too don't understand why clothing that is deemed "women's clothing" has become a tool used to humiliate and emasculate someone. Why is something designed to usually enhance what femininity I feel I have becomes a tool to humiliate and denigrate you just because you possess a penis? Me sitting here in my black hoodie, men's socks (they are damned comfortable), and my Beavis and Butthead men's fleece pants (including the useless penis escape hatch because...well...I have no penis) doesn't have me feeling all humiliated and denigrated as a woman. Why does my panties, bra, or dress have that effect on you?
To be clear, I neither look down on your kink or judge you for having it. Maybe it's like Peon said about not knowing why we do what we do. But I do think that self analysis...even for the sake of giving someone else a chance to understand where you are coming from...can't be a bad thing either. I'm very curious at the motivations and drives behind what makes people tick. So this is actually a fascinating subject and even laying aside the more heated aspects of it, I think it's a good thing to look at.
Like you, I've tried to stay out of this, but thought I'd make a stab at addressing a few of your points. Also, I don't identify as CD or sissy, but I have seen statements throughout this thread that I would at least like to toss my two cents worth of opinion towards.
Okay, you ask, "Why women's clothing specifically..." Here, I am replying specifically to "why" in terms of humiliation. You're right. A woman can dress in lacy, frilly, sexy things...especially lingerie...and look damned hot, and I think that most all hetero men, and many women, would agree. Now, put those same clothes on a hairy guy with a beer belly. Not so hot any more, huh? In fact, downright silly looking. Some might even say...humiliating. That is the same effect you would get if you put the guy in diapers, a baby bonnet, and stuck a pacifier in his mouth. But wait...does that mean he thinks babies are somehow inferior? No, it's because baby stuff just makes him look ridiculous. Same thing with a pig snout...or the cat ears and tail you mentioned.
When the other things like diapers, pig snouts, and cat's ears are accepted as making a guy look stupid or ridiculous in order to humiliate him, then why is it all of a sudden "misogynistic" simply because the vehicle of that humiliation is women's clothing. It is all simply differing means to an end.
Now, why is it deemed "ok" for a woman to wear men's clothing, but not ok for men to wear women's clothing? I think a lot of that began in the rural west many, many years ago. Frontier, rural women had to go out and work beside the men to make things work. Men's clothing was simply more practical. There actually was a time when a woman dressed in men's clothing was considered scandalous. But over time, women in men's clothing became accepted, and things like pant suits, etc. even became fashionable. So, today most people think nothing of seeing a woman in men's garb.
But, to the best of my knowledge, there have been extremely few, if any, "practical" reasons for men to adopt women's styles of dress. So, it has remained "out of the norm" or even "taboo" for a man to put on women's clothing. Over the years people have tried to introduce things like men's skirts into the fashion lineup. They never caught on. Even things like "man bags" never had enough practicality to break any barriers.
Igor-
You make a very valid point about a beer bellied guy in a skirt or whatever, the humiliation there would be in how ridiculous he looks.....but what that leaves out is in the kind of play MX is talking about, it isn't the ridiculousness. There are dominants who make a hairy sub dress in a bra and panties and tell him "look how ridiculous I have made you look", humiliate him that way, and that is not misogyny, it would be like putting him in some oversize sailor suit or a baby bib, it simply is a weird juxtaposition.
But the force femme "emasculization" works differently, they get dressed up, and the humiliation from the domme is specifically "you aren't much of a man, are you, wearing frilly panties and a dress, you aren't a man, you are a sissy, you don't have the right to call yourself a man"....big, big difference from what you are talking. It is humiliating the man, not because he looks weird wearing a bra and panties and is fat and hair, but because he is a man wearing women's clothing and therefore is weak, less than a man, etc......and that is where the misogynistic underpinning is, that simply wearing women's clothing makes one a wimp, a sissy, a half man, whatever *shrug*. Put it this way, if a guy is caught wearing pink panties in the locker room, they won't think he looks ridiculous, he will be called sissy, fag, etc and will be lucky not to get beat up.
As far as why men don't wear skirts and such, there is just too much cultural baggage around being seen as wearing 'women's stuff' for that to happen much. It has happened with certain things, guys wear earrings commonly these days, for example, but for the most part the baggage is just too high, too ingrained, plus the other side of it, as many women found out, 'men's clothing', pants and tops, are a lot easier, and most men quite frankly hate to spend time grooming:)
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