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Mxybunny -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/26/2013 2:51:17 AM)
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Since I joined this thread I have received approximately 32 direct replies (some are harder to gauge as they answer my points but don't necessarily address me). Of those 32, only 21 were directly contentious or actively challenged my points/topical views (or were just plain mockery). Most of the other replies were the same two kind-hearted people trying to help stem the tirade of nonsense being thrown at me (thank you Jet and Peon).
Now, within the content of those 21 posts, the number of times someone has specifically told me what *I* feel, what is going on inside my head, or the heads of other people to share my fetish, is approximately 23 (though one was heavily implied by almost no content and a decent chunk of them came from just one post).
21 direct contentions, containing TWENTY-THREE presumptions about what I think about women, myself, my "tragic past", what other sissies or all sissies think or feel or what the foundational reasons are for the way we feel, etc. Additionally, the number of times someone came into this thread, NOT addressing me, but simply to reaffirm one of those presumptions (to state that sissydom is misogyny, etc) is a further 5 posts (I've given up counting the individual remarks).
I have posted - not counting this post, 13 times. Thirteen. Verses 26 presumptions about what I or my ilk really feel, how scarred we must be, how wrong in the head, etc. And most of those posts of mine were me bantering back and forth with one guy about whether I did or didn't explain something that I clearly did explain, plus some unrelated discussion.
Now granted, I'm your typical tldr poster, I am lacking brevity, and being an experienced forumer it's habit for me to avoid double posting by replying to multiple people per post. But I'm getting all this "dude why are you angry why are you angry" bullshit. I've had my mind incorrectly read 26 fucking times in the space of a handful of posts. Guess what happens when you're trying to communicate your feelings to someone and they just talk over you saying "you're angry and you hate women" over and over? Yeah. You get legitimately angry. ANYONE would.
On top of that, the number of times people either misinterpreted, misunderstood or just plain speculated wrongly about an unrelated position or belief I must have (for example, "you think women have no burdens".) is about 8 or 9. I remind you, that is in response to 13 posts. So in effect I'm not only dealing with this cascade of incorrect presumption - I'm also banging my head against a brick wall when I try to defend myself. I'm being told WHAT I think, and NOT BEING LISTENED TO when I respond.
I haven't even counted the stuff like "Sissies are self-absorbed" as that is entirely anecdotal, and in some cases can be very true. SOME.
In this thread we have sissies telling you that they aren't motivated by misogynism, and people who aren't sissies telling them they are. We have me being repeatedly commanded to justify my fetish, then being accused of not doing so when I do. Take a moment to think about that. It's no different than those stupid arguments you see sometimes between someone who thinks all members of a particular race are racist against their race, and just won't listen to anything they say. That is the level many of you have stooped to. Behavior that you would deem unacceptable in almost any other context, and the one single reason you tolerate it is because it's to do with YOUR belief system, YOUR gender, YOUR lifestyle.
Look, you won't get very many opportunities to discuss something like this with someone who has analyzed their own fetish quite as thoroughly as me. It's already something of a cheap shot to come in here and label something so deeply subliminal as misogynistic just to watch the crossdressers squirm and panic as they try to justify their fetish and resist the very personal insult of being told how wrong it is when they can do nothing about it. Not many people in that position can articulate the way they feel or really understand how it works on an unconscious level. I happen to be a rare case of someone who has meticulously broken down these desires in a very formulaic manner. How about you don't sully this rare chance to understand one another by perpetually looping the same ignorant remarks over and over in response?
I've been asked how this fetish works?
I've answered explaining that it is a combination of your run-of-the-mill humiliation fetish with crossdressing. The juxtaposition of gender mixing with the complete reliance on a figure of domination in whom you can invest your submissive need to trust completely in order to have that different inner identity coaxed out of you in an accepting, sexual environment.
Then I'm told I'm wrong, and/or that I didn't answer.
I've been asked how I got this fetish?
I've answered that, like a TS, I was born a crossdresser, and the humiliation fetish is probably a psychological response to childhood bullying, reminding them that sissy fetish is JUST crossdressing in a sub context, as explained above.
Then I'm told I'm wrong, and/or that I didn't answer.
I've been asked how is it possible I find it humiliating to look like a woman if I don't hate women?
I've answered that it isn't the obtaining of the female role that is inherently humiliating, but the abandonment of the male role in the most non-male way that is possible (coupled with my natural gender-fluidity bringing joy to becoming female). Like flipping a coin. You can keep the coin in your hand and ask me if I believe that it's heads. If I say no, that DOESN'T MEAN that I am stating that it is tails. I can find it humiliating to LOSE MY MASCULINITY, without it meaning that femininity itself is humiliating.
I've been told that I'm wrong, and/or that I didn't answer.
I've been asked if you are a sub, why not just dress like a "weak" male? Why must it be a "weak" female?
I've answered that I am a crossdresser, and I WANT to be in the role of a female when submitting. Additionally, there are PLENTY of male subs already. Weak is just a matter of viewpoint, call it submissive or whatever you want. What I'm being asked is "why do you all have to be female subs?" and the answer is, we don't, most subs are just subs and you're completely ignoring that, only some of us identify this way. Why do I? Because that part of me is female. There's no big mystery there nor is this an epidemic. I'm aroused by subbing as a female. That's it.
I've been told that I'm wrong, and/or that I didn't answer.
I've been asked to explain, evidently in step-by-step detail, how this emotional transformation occurs?
I've answered in positively excruciating detail how I am able to cast aside the behaviors, expectations and emotional limitations of a male. To experience a more vulnerable, emotionally available, feminine and, in my opinion, "beautiful" new persona. All of which is largely just the act of crossdressing, but is only fetishized when put into a "sub" context, as I am not only transforming into a female, I am transforming into a female who happens to be a submissive.
I'm then told that I'm wrong, and/or that I didn't answer.
So before I get the next torrent of "ew mah gawd why are you so angry, just answer our questions already, gawd jeez you so misogynist", take a scan through my recent, completely ignored posts first. I have had to deal with, and still am dealing with so many replies making the same, I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it, stupid non-points all at the same time, and none of them are taking the time or effort to just apply a modicum of thought to what they are talking about.
Take the issue of force. How many of you have replied saying "subs don't like force they like SUBMISSION". I feel like this kind of tomayto tomahto bullshit is the kind of thing neurologists would use to determine brain damage. Does anyone on this FETISH site actually grasp what the concept of "force" means in this context? Do you people honestly believe that I want a woman to literally forcibly dress me up, against my will, when I DON'T WANT TO? How is that even possible, if it is MY fetish? How can it be against my will when I'm telling you it's what I WANT.
Subs submit, to an authority figure, who then issues them *commands*, exacts *influence* over them, or *uses* them for their own pleasure. If any single individual in this thread honestly doesn't understand that this is the kind of submission experienced under the umbrella of feminization then you need to take your bloody heads out of the microwave, stop being defensive and snarky with me, and just actually THINK before trying to find ways to deliberately misinterpret my posts over and over.
I mean, for the love of Buddha, do I really need to CLARIFY this? In a thread where the exact same point has been made again and again by others in reference to rape fantasies, etc? There IS no such thing as true, legitimate "force" when engaging in consensual sex play. This isn't the kind of thing anyone on a site like THIS should need spoonfed to them. And given that it's clearly not possible to be *literally* forced to do something you want to do, maybe someone with molecule or two of common-sense might figure out that, like all those other instances of fetishistic "force", I, too, am not actually talking about force in the literal sense, bur rather a more symbolic kind or force (aka, submission) before just responding with vacuous remarks about "why do you need to be forced"? "Subs don't like force they like domination"?, etc.
You wonder why I'm pissed off? It's because I'm trying to discuss something very personal to me with people who not only feel compelled to argue, instead of listen, but who for some reason seem to think a good argument tactic is to pretend to be incapable of comprehending anything, no matter how simple or self-evident it may be, even AFTER it has been explained multiple times. And why is all this happening? Because you got your pantyhose all hiked up right at the start by the very idea that anything even connected with femininity could be viewed in the context of humiliation. Many of you are dommes, it appears, and you regard this stuff as your territory. Which is what's happening here. You're being territorial - not rational.
I've responded to every single thing that has been said to me, and taken the trouble to listen and understand all of it before replying. It's not asking much for you to at lease try to do the same.
In addition to dommes there seem to be a few TG's in the thread contributing to this, and I understand why. The relationship between sissy and transgender can be a prickly one. From their point of view it must seem like we started down THEIR route in life then suddenly took a left turn into weirdville. They must see us the same way a female cop would see a stripper dressed like a "slutty cop" - a mockery of everything they have worked for. The cop has had to succeed in a male-dominated industry, much like how a trans-person has had to overcome adversity to become their true self, and here is a fetishized version of them actively flaunting the idea that it should be humiliating or objectification to be like them. I get it, I do.
But sissies are not trans. Two different things, and you can't conflate them together. I am clearly not entirely male, or I wouldn't have these urges. I am somewhere on the spectrum BETWEEN male and trans. (Ironically, this is usually the point where some busybody comes along and accuses me of thinking in "binary" terms.) The REASON you guys just can't understand us is because we are so close to being what you are, but from a completely different vector. Instead of having an internal identity of female, we are male, and just happen to be doing a lot of the same things that you do. You try to understand it in terms of the familiar, in terms of YOUR viewpoints.
A TG/TS (let's stick with mtf) is ALREADY female. She dresses like a female and affects feminine mannerisms and, if desired, bodily changes in order to come closer to those female characteristic (ironically, this is usually the point in which *I* am criticized for having a "concept" of the female gender). My similarity to this is entirely superficial. TG's are often even more sensitive to issues like misogyny BECAUSE of this, because they have had to spend so long reaching out to ATTAIN femininity, and so, have put it on a greater pedestal. In addition to having to deal with misogyny's ugly cousin, trans-misogyny, making them often even more burned and quick to overreact.
So you have these people who have a hot-button when it comes to anything that denigrates females, trying to make sense out of someone who has walked almost exactly in their footsteps, yet with the distinction that they ENJOY the denigration of becoming female. Anyone could completely understand how this would utterly mess with your head. I am sympathetic to this - but it is not excuse to NOT LISTEN, NOT ACCEPT and CONTRADICT my explanations of WHY this turns me on, as if you somehow have the right to dictate what goes on in my mind simply because the only way your paradigm will allow you to make sense of something so similar to you taking that left turn into something so antithetical to you, is to assume something must be wrong with it.
Look, there IS some merit to saying that these fetishes are in part connected to a cultural paradigm, along with most other fetishes. Okay, fine, insist away, if it waters your cabbages, that the whole reason this stuff is taboo in the first place is because of some archaic attitude towards gender roles permeating culture at a psychic level. Call it misogynistic, if it makes you so damn happy. But the only thing I care about is the fact that I'm doing something that allows me to express my femininity in a sexualised way.
You can make the same ridiculous arguments about literally any fetish. "Oh it's just because you're supporting the taboo!" Yes, it's based on a taboo, like so many others are that you conveniently ignore. What value will voyeurism or exhibitionism have when society gets to the point where we are so desensitized and/or accepting of sex that it is no longer taboo to practice it in public? Indeed, I have caught myself thinking in the past how much it would suck if society gets TOO accepting of crossdressing to the point where it's no longer an oddity or a thrill for me to do it. That's a selfish thought, of course, and I'm not saying I WANT that, merely that it is true that my sexuality, like that of so many other fetishes, is tied to a certain cultural context.
And you know what? It's the same for YOU.
What happens when you see or experience something very unusual? It turns your head. It invokes a certain curiosity, even if morbid. You see a person with terrible scars or disfigurement hobbling down the street. You NOTICE. It makes you FEEL something, even if you don't understand what. You see a car accident, a mugging, a person fucking falling over - it makes you NOTICE because it is beyond the norm. That's what a taboo is. It doesn't mean you're secretly acting on a disgust or hatred for people with disfigurements, that you took joy in seeing someone fall over (even if you laughed!) it's just how the brain reacts to that inexplicable contradiction with the norm. This is cognitive dissonance 101, and the types of people who try to use these unconscious mechanisms as shaming devices, like so many of you here have tried to do, disgust me.
THAT is how you indoctrinate someone into religion. Or a cult. It is how you scam someone out of their money. How the media torments women into hating their bodies. How an abuser psychologically tortures and manipulates their victim. Hell, ironically, it's even how the gender divide exists in the FIRST place. Shaming people for what they can't control. How dare you be a woman who wants to succeed. How dare you be a man who wants to express himself openly. How dare you claim the right to vote, or wear whatever you want. You are a deviant. you are abnormal. You are not good enough. All this judgement, society is built on it. Everyone telling everyone else what they can like, what they can get off to, what they can enjoy and why. And if they don't comply? They don't get to join the club. They don't get to qualify for "my" concept of fetish.
Yes, in some ways I am reacting to the FACT that it is taboo. It turns me on to be doing something "odd" for my gender to do. It makes me a spectacle, which is embarrassing, and it happens to be embarrassment that gets me off, for whatever odd reason. Sure, MAYBE the fact that this particular thing is taboo is because of some undercurrent of prejudice keeping the woman down with the might of the furious misogynistic giant cock of maledom. MAYBE. I don't know. But THAT has nothing to do with MY motive. For whatever reason it may be a taboo, it is the taboo ITSELF that I am reacting to.
But what's the point of explaining all this? If I say I want to escape the burdens of manhood, I am accused of saying women have it easy. If I say I want to be humiliated by being emasculated, I am accused of saying becoming female is humiliating. If I say I want to submit to woman and be dominated by them, I am accused of somehow being secretly misogynist. So what's going to happen if I say I am turned on by a taboo? I'm just going to be accused of secretly condoning what YOU decide is the foundation for that taboo. It's always one or the other, a battle between extremes. None of you want to allow for there to be a grey area here. A middle ground. Because if there is a middle ground I just might be in danger of actually having a point.
And heaven forbid you allow that into your rigid little book of definitions on what everyone else must be or not be.
13 posts and not ONE of them listened to, all I've had at refusals, dismissal and a mind-numbing stream of people telling me what I think, what I feel, how fucked up I must be in the head and a whole host of other crap. Why? Because none of you want to allow for it to be possible that femininity could ever be combined with sexual submission. EVEN THOUGH many of you fully acknowledge that there are CIS women who can be dressed up as sluts to humiliate them. But if you're not a cis woman, how dare you try to do the same thing.
And *I'm* the one coming out of this looking sexist in your eyes?
I am a crossdresser. I was born a crossdresser, and I have been dressing up since I was WAY too young to have any concept of sexism. All that time, it was sexually exciting for me. I don't care where the taboo came from. Stop trying to inject other people's private joys into your myopic tirade against gender inequality. Most of the time the only thing that keeps prejudice alive are the white knights who run around in a paranoid rage overreacting to it, any way. But I'm not here to get political. Nor am I trying to in the bedroom. I find the allure of a woman, both in being one and in admiring them externally, to be extremely arousing, and I can't do anything to stop that, nor would I if I could.
I happen to be a certain type of woman when I step into that role. A submissive, humiliated slut. I like leather corsets and peep-hole bras on the women I submit to, but I like frilly dresses, stockings and panties on myself. What this all boils down to is YOUR condemnation of MY personal style, MY preferences. This is little more than a gang of prom queens looking down on the nerdy girl who sits at the back of the class. If you don't like that imagery, if you don't want to be that sort of person... you have only one thing you need to do.
Stop. Let other people enjoy what they want, and stop trying to use it as something to bash them with. You don't KNOW what goes on in my head, and when I tell you, you call me a liar. Fine. How about we both just keep to our own heads, then?
Deal?
To all my sissy sisters, thank you for your messages of support. I know it's scary, intimidating and unpleasant to step into a discussion like this, but I've tried to do my best to defend our corner. I feel your pain on being judged, and I share your complete love for women, even when they act like insensitive bullies. You never have to justify yourself to anyone, I did this only because I happen to have the ability to put into words something that many of us only grasp on a deeply emotional, wordless level. It is sad that in an age with so much social stigma, the ones who should be the most sensitive to it, those who are most defensive against it, tend to also be the most exclusionary of all.
I don't know how else to spell out how this fetish works, so from this point on I will simply answer to everyone who makes the same tired points with quotes of what I have already said over and over in response to them. I am done repeating myself, and done lowering myself to the same level as those who are only interested in being snippy. I am however more than willing to respond to reasonable, non-hostile future posts.
njlauren, I actually began this post in reply to you but got so sidetracked explaining everything about ff as clearly as I could I probably already covered everything I was going to say before I got to any of your quotes. Since you're one of the only ones not acting like a clown, even despite your insistence on the misogyny of my fetish, I am happy to respond to any queries you may have that weren't covered in this post. Though I will say this - yes, of course it is all associative, but then so is anything gender-related. This species stopped being binary a long time ago, and now any and all concept of gender is merely a product of social archetypes. Including yours.
I won't judge yours if you won't judge mine.
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