RE: The next shoe to drop....

RE: The next shoe to drop.... (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/12/2013 9:48:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges. I dare you. Find a source that says 2million people have signed up for insurance. Not medicare or medicaid: insurance. Signed up as in: paid for. Because the numbers are as I've reported them. Everyone - insurance companies, democrats in congress, HHS are acknowleding they are getting enrollments at 10% of the rate expected. They would have to do 3 million enrollments in December to meet their goal. And with 8 days left till the December deadline - it will never happen. So lets have a bet Dom Ken: If Obamacare hits 3 million paid subscriptions by Dec 23 - I won't post here for a year. And if they don't hit 3 million paid (non medicaid) policies by Dec 23 - you don't post for a year. Let's put your money where your mouth is... Medicaid and Medicare are insurance. As to your bet. no. You don't get to define the bet in such a way as to guarantee I'll lose. I will take a bet that 2 million people will have signed up for insurance as of today. No caveats or lies. Take it or leave it.

Phydeaux -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/12/2013 9:54:55 PM)
Medicaid isn't insurance. Insurance is when a group of subscribers pool together to apportion risk. The premiums collected from the subscribers pay for the claims. In Medicare/Medicaid there is not even the pretense that the claims of the subscribers are paid by the subscribers. They are simply paid by the general tax payer. Ergo, not insurance. It is a direct government entitlement. You are entitled to the coverage REGARDLESS of what premium is charged. That bet is of no interest. Dimocrats didn't pass Obamacare to expand medicaid - we could have done that at any time. The promise was that government could do better than for-profit insurance companies. Except, even with the power of compelling people to get coverage: you can't. The dims are so in-bed with so many constituencies that once again we have the "a camel is a horse designed by govt committee" syndrome. So many carve outs for democratic interests that it became absolute crap.

Phydeaux -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/12/2013 9:57:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Medicaid and Medicare are insurance. As to your bet. no. You don't get to define the bet in such a way as to guarantee I'll lose. I will take a bet that 2 million people will have signed up for insurance as of today. No caveats or lies. Take it or leave it. Real confident of Obamacare, aren't you... Yeah. I'll bet that the dow is over 15000... yesterday. Snicker.

DomKen -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/13/2013 1:18:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux That bet is of no interest. Dimocrats didn't pass Obamacare to expand medicaid - we could have done that at any time. The promise was that government could do better than for-profit insurance companies. Lie. The ACA is mostly insurance regulations. How is that in any way a premise that the government could do better than private insurance?

mnottertail -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/13/2013 7:19:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux That bet is of no interest. Dimocrats didn't pass Obamacare to expand medicaid - we could have done that at any time. The promise was that government could do better than for-profit insurance companies. Yeah, nutsackers are the most cretinous motherfuckers to ever waste oxygen on the earth. Of course they passed Obamacare to expand Medicaid , and would have done it at 100% levels except for a nutsacker loaded supreme court. And they are already doing better than insurance companies, you are covered for pre-existing conditions and so many more ways they are doing better. Showing them up for the slimes they are.

Lucylastic -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/13/2013 7:25:45 AM)
The ACA was enacted with the goals of increasing the quality and affordability of health insurance, lowering the uninsured rate by expanding public and private insurance coverage, and reducing the costs of healthcare for individuals and the government. It introduced a number of mechanisms—including mandates, subsidies, and insurance exchanges—meant to increase coverage and affordability Medicaid eligibility expanded to include individuals and families with incomes up to 133% of the federal poverty level, including adults without disabilities and without dependent children.The law also provides for a 5% "income disregard", making the effective income eligibility limit for Medicaid 138% of the poverty level. Furthermore, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) enrollment process is simplified. However, in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, the Supreme Court ruled that states may opt out of the Medicaid expansion, and several have done so.

popeye1250 -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 12:47:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie 'Abortion' is also a term that appeared nowhere in my question about contraception and Baptists... quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Even if you are defining all contraception as 'abortion', you're still not accurately representing the dogma of mainstream Protestants. . quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie I think, in general, most Christians are against abortion. Whether they follow that edict is another question altogether. I wasn't trying to represent the dogma of mainstream Protestants. Indeed, I wasn't trying to represent anyone at all. Abortion is a clearly defined term. Hmm, I wasn't aware that "Baptists" were Protestant.

AmandaPeace -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 9:30:35 AM)
And health insurance was going so awesome before the ACA, right? You guy remember that? Premiums getting worse and worse and worse every year? Everything isn't all flowers and butterflies, but now at least there are basic protections that make it so that health insurance companies can't deny people care for a "pre-existing condition" - and millions and millions of people who couldn't afford health care before can afford it now. That's a big deal. Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for.

DesideriScuri -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 9:45:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace And health insurance was going so awesome before the ACA, right? You guy remember that? Premiums getting worse and worse and worse every year? Everything isn't all flowers and butterflies, but now at least there are basic protections that make it so that health insurance companies can't deny people care for a "pre-existing condition" - and millions and millions of people who couldn't afford health care before can afford it now. That's a big deal. Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for. Millions and millions of people can afford it because it's become more expensive for others. It was just a cost-shifting strategy. It hasn't actually made insurance (or care) more affordable for everyone. That would have been a bigger deal.

tj444 -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 9:46:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The ACA was enacted with the goals of increasing the quality and affordability of health insurance, lowering the uninsured rate by expanding public and private insurance coverage, and reducing the costs of healthcare for individuals and the government. It introduced a number of mechanisms—including mandates, subsidies, and insurance exchanges—meant to increase coverage and affordability Medicaid eligibility expanded to include individuals and families with incomes up to 133% of the federal poverty level, including adults without disabilities and without dependent children.The law also provides for a 5% "income disregard", making the effective income eligibility limit for Medicaid 138% of the poverty level. Furthermore, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) enrollment process is simplified. However, in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, the Supreme Court ruled that states may opt out of the Medicaid expansion, and several have done so. here is an Obamacare subsidy calculator.. a person can compare how that applies to them in each state (or US average).. sorta interesting.. some states are still in flux it seems, making changes to their policies/coverage.. [8\|] http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

DomKen -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 4:54:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace And health insurance was going so awesome before the ACA, right? You guy remember that? Premiums getting worse and worse and worse every year? Everything isn't all flowers and butterflies, but now at least there are basic protections that make it so that health insurance companies can't deny people care for a "pre-existing condition" - and millions and millions of people who couldn't afford health care before can afford it now. That's a big deal. Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for. Millions and millions of people can afford it because it's become more expensive for others. It was just a cost-shifting strategy. It hasn't actually made insurance (or care) more affordable for everyone. That would have been a bigger deal. Actually it has. The medical inflation rate has come down dramatically.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 7:02:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges. And 5 million have lost insurance during the same period, because of the new mandates.

DomKen -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 8:23:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges. And 5 million have lost insurance during the same period, because of the new mandates. Precisely none of those people have to stay uninsured.

cloudboy -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 9:04:54 PM)
quote: Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for. WELL SAID

tazzygirl -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/15/2013 11:07:23 PM)
~FR So many distortions and lies.... lol Churches do not have to follow the mandate if they are self insuring. Church doesnt want to cover their employees? Then they can insure themselves. The problem with all this is that these institutions are wanting to be allowed to NOT offer therapeutic treatments simply because they can also be used for birth control. Been through this time and time and time again. BC pills provide treatment for many diseases and problems.... They arent just for preventing babies anymore. [;)]

LookieNoNookie -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/16/2013 4:08:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges. And 5 million have lost insurance during the same period, because of the new mandates. Precisely none of those people have to stay uninsured. Wow. That's got to be one of the top 10 most ridiculous statements in history.

mnottertail -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/16/2013 6:53:32 AM)
I dont follow that it is ridiculous, it is a tautology. It is also true.

thishereboi -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/16/2013 7:21:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges. And 5 million have lost insurance during the same period, because of the new mandates. Precisely none of those people have to stay uninsured. Wow. That's got to be one of the top 10 most ridiculous statements in history. I want to know where he is getting the "over 2 million" from. Every article I have read is claiming that they have no clue how many have signed up because the gov won't release numbers. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/politics/obamacare-insurance-signup/index.html http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-many-americans-have-signed-up-for-obamacare/ They also don't mention how many of those are signing up for insurance and how many are signing up for medicare. As to the ones who have lost their insurance because of this...do you really think he cares about them?

Lucylastic -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/16/2013 7:33:56 AM)
http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013/MarketPlaceEnrollment/Dec2013/ib_2013dec_enrollment.pdf These are the official figures, in a pdf form^^^^ Using two month old links wont help...heres an updated one http://www.cnbc.com/id/101262522 all the figures are there...all kinds of figures how many have signed on for medicare, how many are private, how many have actually signed and how many visitors, over signups n everything. Gov figures, may not be "factual, but they ARE the official ones...should there be probable ones...Im sure someone will post them :)

thishereboi -> RE: The next shoe to drop.... (12/16/2013 7:46:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013/MarketPlaceEnrollment/Dec2013/ib_2013dec_enrollment.pdf These are the official figures, in a pdf form^^^^ Using two month old links wont help...heres an updated one http://www.cnbc.com/id/101262522 all the figures are there...all kinds of figures how many have signed on for medicare, how many are private, how many have actually signed and how many visitors, over signups n everything. Gov figures, may not be "factual, but they ARE the official ones...should there be probable ones...Im sure someone will post them :) thanks that was very interesting and according to the pdf "Overview of Enrollment to Date Selected a Marketplace Plan – To date, 364,682 persons have selected a Marketplace plan during the first two months of the initial open enrollment period, including 227,478 in SBMs and 137,204 in the FFM (these numbers include those who have paid a premium and those who have not yet paid a premium)." Still not sure where the 2 million number came from.

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