quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013/MarketPlaceEnrollment/Dec2013/ib_2013dec_enrollment.pdf
These are the official figures, in a pdf form^^^^

Using two month old links wont help...heres an updated one
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101262522

all the figures are there...all kinds of figures how many have signed on for medicare, how many are private, how many have actually signed and how many visitors, over signups n everything.
Gov figures, may not be "factual, but they ARE the official ones...should there be probable ones...Im sure someone will post them
:)

thanks that was very interesting and according to the pdf

"Overview of Enrollment to Date
Selected a Marketplace Plan – To date, 364,682 persons have selected a Marketplace plan
during the first two months of the initial open enrollment period, including 227,478 in SBMs and
137,204 in the FFM (these numbers include those who have paid a premium and those who have
not yet paid a premium)."

Still not sure where the 2 million number came from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont follow that it is ridiculous, it is a tautology.  It is also true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, that is not the same non-sequitur at all. It is 'kind of' not like it whatsoever.

It is not against the law to be poor.   

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And health insurance was going so awesome before the ACA, right? You guy remember that? Premiums getting worse and worse and worse every year?
Everything isn't all flowers and butterflies, but now at least there are basic protections that make it so that health insurance companies can't deny people care for a "pre-existing condition" - and millions and millions of people who couldn't afford health care before can afford it now.
That's a big deal.
Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for.

Millions and millions of people can afford it because it's become more expensive for others. It was just a cost-shifting strategy. It hasn't actually made insurance (or care) more affordable for everyone. That would have been a bigger deal.

Actually it has. The medical inflation rate has come down dramatically.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And health insurance was going so awesome before the ACA, right? You guy remember that? Premiums getting worse and worse and worse every year?
Everything isn't all flowers and butterflies, but now at least there are basic protections that make it so that health insurance companies can't deny people care for a "pre-existing condition" - and millions and millions of people who couldn't afford health care before can afford it now.
That's a big deal.
Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for.

Millions and millions of people can afford it because it's become more expensive for others. It was just a cost-shifting strategy. It hasn't actually made insurance (or care) more affordable for everyone. That would have been a bigger deal.

Actually it has. The medical inflation rate has come down dramatically.

Actually it hasn't. While the medical inflation rate has been falling consistently over the last 8 years, you can't abscribe it to ACA.

Most *reasonable* people abscribe it to two factors:
High unemployment rates makes people put off medical choices, hence lowering demand.
last 3-4 years many brandname drugs have come off patent protection. From cancer drugs, to cholesterol medications.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Curve fit it.

Tell me the slope.

Once again, you have a problem with recognizing reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And health insurance was going so awesome before the ACA, right? You guy remember that? Premiums getting worse and worse and worse every year?
Everything isn't all flowers and butterflies, but now at least there are basic protections that make it so that health insurance companies can't deny people care for a "pre-existing condition" - and millions and millions of people who couldn't afford health care before can afford it now.
That's a big deal.
Even if you secretly don't give a damn about poor people, it's probably in your self-interest to make sure that they're not desperate, in terrible debt from medical expenses, or putting off basic treatments until they become expensive emergency room visits - which they ultimately can't pay for.

Millions and millions of people can afford it because it's become more expensive for others. It was just a cost-shifting strategy. It hasn't actually made insurance (or care) more affordable for everyone. That would have been a bigger deal.

Actually it has. The medical inflation rate has come down dramatically.

Actually it hasn't. While the medical inflation rate has been falling consistently over the last 8 years, you can't abscribe it to ACA.

Most *reasonable* people abscribe it to two factors:
High unemployment rates makes people put off medical choices, hence lowering demand.
last 3-4 years many brandname drugs have come off patent protection. From cancer drugs, to cholesterol medications.

Lies as always.

The medical inflation rate has not been declining for the last 8 years and no sane person can look at the numbers and make that claim.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SAM?output_view=pct_12mths

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

So either the sharp spike last year was caused by obamacare, or the long term downward trend predates obamacare and hence you can't say a damn thing about obamacare lowering medical inflation.

Which is it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

So either the sharp spike last year was caused by obamacare, or the long term downward trend predates obamacare and hence you can't say a damn thing about obamacare lowering medical inflation.

Which is it?

You made a claim. It is not true.

The fact is that over the last 18 months or so the medical inflation rate has dropped dramatically. There is no other factor that except the implementation of the ACA that could account for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

So either the sharp spike last year was caused by obamacare, or the long term downward trend predates obamacare and hence you can't say a damn thing about obamacare lowering medical inflation.

Which is it?

You made a claim. It is not true.

The fact is that over the last 18 months or so the medical inflation rate has dropped dramatically. There is no other factor that except the implementation of the ACA that could account for it.

CMS regulations also impact how insurance companies are paid and that would effect the rate. CMS just implemented the Two Midnight Rule which will effect how hospitals can bill. The ACA is not the only thing you have to consider when looking at medical rates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

So either the sharp spike last year was caused by obamacare, or the long term downward trend predates obamacare and hence you can't say a damn thing about obamacare lowering medical inflation.

Which is it?

You made a claim. It is not true.

The fact is that over the last 18 months or so the medical inflation rate has dropped dramatically. There is no other factor that except the implementation of the ACA that could account for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Medical CPI:
2005 (8years ago) 4.2
2006 4.0
2007 4.4 (that means the inflation rate has not been going down for 8 years)
2008 3.7
2009 3.2
2010 3.4 (that's another increase)
2011 3.0
2012 3.7 (and another)
2013 (first half) 2.7

Any function to make those data points fit on the same curve would be discontinuous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As usual you are full of shit.

You made a specific claim. That the medical inflation rate has been declining for 8 years. Not that the inflation rate is lower now than it was 8 years ago which is all you've managed to show.

As to your mangling of math, a set of discrete points can fit in a continuous formula. It is a sign that the numbers are actually part of an actual mathematical relationship. For instance 0,0 1,1 and 2,2 fit a continuous function y=x in this case. When you have to apply regression you are searching for the closest fit not that any function will accurately portray those numbers. For instance the formula produced by the regression analysis says the value for year 2012 is 3.08 when the actual value is 3.7. Basically it is inappropriate to use a linear regression on this data. To accurately portray the data requires using a nonlinear regression which is far more hassle than I'm willing to go through after proving you so spectacularly wrong by simply presenting the actual data.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

So either the sharp spike last year was caused by obamacare, or the long term downward trend predates obamacare and hence you can't say a damn thing about obamacare lowering medical inflation.

Which is it?

You made a claim. It is not true.

The fact is that over the last 18 months or so the medical inflation rate has dropped dramatically. There is no other factor that except the implementation of the ACA that could account for it.

CMS regulations also impact how insurance companies are paid and that would effect the rate. CMS just implemented the Two Midnight Rule which will effect how hospitals can bill. The ACA is not the only thing you have to consider when looking at medical rates.

And where was the authorization to let the CMS make those changes? That's right the ACA. And the rule hasn't even gone into force yet.
http://www.bna.com/cms-give-hospitals-n17179880068/

quote:


I said nothing about continuous functions. You said it was impossible to have a continuous function describe the data. I went ahead and provided one for you.