RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (Full Version)

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feastie -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 5:54:00 AM)

What really influences the world opinion?

The fact that Americans themselves can no longer respectfully debate each other.  The two major parties have become media snipers.  They absolutely refuse to search for common ground.  Each wants it his way or the highway and they do not limit their mouths or their attitudes.  After all, they do enjoy freedom of speech.  They're just forgetting the manners and respect part.

Every single time someone says something in public that will in some way be reported on as news, and it is negative, it creates negativity for our country.  Every time someone without the power of the press uses a message board like this, and posts something negative, it creates negativity for those from other countries that might read it.  It's not George Bush that's at fault, it's all of us.  Negativity breeds negativity.  Don't you hate being around a person who is negative about everything?

My son has issues with his father, as his father took off and hasn't seen the kids or called them in four or five years now.  In his therapy sessions with his psychologist, they write him hate letters.  They draw pictures of him in horrible situations.  Then they burn them or shred them or otherwise destroy them.  Then, they follow this up with finding five positive things to say about Dad.  Don't you think that we, as the people of this wonderful country, because it truly is, can find a way to express our feelings without being negative? Or if what we express is negative, doing so in a respectful manner?  Then too, couldn't we find at least one positive thing to say as well?

I haven't been to Europe or anywhere else but the good ol' U.S. of A.  I love my country and I'm proud of my country.  I may not agree with the leadership at the time, or I may think it's great, but it's still the leadership of my country.  You'll not catch me denigrating it to anyone.

Sometimes taking the high road is much more difficult than taking the low one.





pahunkboy -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:01:35 AM)

1. we urgently need campaine finance reform.

2. i too am proud to be an american. even those who hate bush....well put it this way...no american will offer to be[and will boldly repel being] a whipping boy. [so dont confuse the 2]




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:15:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50

My father was a WWII vet. I cannot believe for second he would ever think his own government would: attack another country unprovoked, imprison & torture people, deny people access to the courts, spy on it's own citizens. This administration & its' supporters are a dangerous group. They believe they are one thing but are clearly another. When God is directing you who needs the voters? When the world dosen't buy their message the right attacks claiming treason & disloyalty. Ann Coulter calls them "Godless." The NY Times is attacked for pointing out their crimes. The world is justified for having a low opinion of the USA, just look around.


Peter, lots of folks, Democrat and Republican alike, thought Sadaam had WMD. He also tried to assasinate an American president.
 
Guantanamo is a bad idea, but the difference in America and many other countries is that we debate these things, and the Supreme court is speaking against Bush and his Gitmo policy. And you speak of us "torturing" them, but what we've done pales to what they do.
 
And governments, including ours, have spied on it's citizens since the world began. Doesn't make it right, but don't try to make it sound like it just began with Bush.
 
On a positive note, I like your sig line [:D].




peterK50 -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:36:56 AM)

John Ashcroft & Alberto Gonzalez tied themselves in knots looking for the legal justification for torture. "Torture" was the word they use & have used. It was decided holding someones head underwater in an interrogation was not "torture". That's good to know. I would hope my country would behave better then terrorists, seeing as we're trying to convince their countrymen we are the better alternative.. Spying on U.S. citizens didn't begin with Bush, but he certainly raised it to a new level. I've never seen anyone so shamless when his abuses are held up to him. "Patriotism Is The Last Refuge Of A Scoundrel" <George Bernard Shaw>




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:49:20 AM)

We hold the accused terrorist's head under water, the terrorists cut aid workers heads off.
 
The former is not good, but it falls short of chop chop.
 
Wrong is wrong, whether done by an American or an Iraqi, but it amazes me that those so quick to condemn America would rather have their toenails pulled off than be critical of the terrorists.




peterK50 -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:53:37 AM)

I haven't heard much support of the terrorists except from other terrorists & Islamist radicals.




JohnWarren -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:55:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

We hold the accused terrorist's head under water, the terrorists cut aid workers heads off.
 
The former is not good, but it falls short of chop chop.
 
Wrong is wrong, whether done by an American or an Iraqi, but it amazes me that those so quick to condemn America would rather have their toenails pulled off than be critical of the terrorists.


I have a simple test.  If the administration claims a particular activity is not torture, a random selection of sons, spouses, and daughters of administration officials have the technique demonstrated on them on television for the length of time it is usually used on suspects (remember these people haven't been convicted of anything).  That can reassure the world that these things are "no worse than a frat hazing" (words of one administration official during a special on the History Channel.)




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:57:55 AM)

Support by lack of condemnation happens too.
 
I hope the new government gets up on its own two feet soon, peter, and our troops, and the troops of our allies, can go home.




JohnWarren -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:57:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50

I haven't heard much support of the terrorists except from other terrorists & Islamist radicals.


While the administration likes to bandy around the "support" word, what actually is happening is that loyal Americans are debating the best way to deal with terrorists without destroying the things this country stands for.  It isn't argued that burning down the barn is a good way to rid it of rats, more far seeing people realize that it then leaves us without a barn.




caitlyn -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 6:59:19 AM)

As an exercise in reality, lets go back through the historical archives and make a list of very powerful nations that were not hated by large groups of people.
 
MY LIST
 
End of list.[;)]




meatcleaver -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:01:48 AM)

Terrorists do what people expect terorists to do Level but people have higher expectations of America. That's not a bad thing. Many of the desenting voices about American activities on European TV are actually American voices. That also is not a bad thing. It doesn't show America in a bad light but it does however, show the current administration in bad light.




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:02:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

We hold the accused terrorist's head under water, the terrorists cut aid workers heads off.
 
The former is not good, but it falls short of chop chop.
 
Wrong is wrong, whether done by an American or an Iraqi, but it amazes me that those so quick to condemn America would rather have their toenails pulled off than be critical of the terrorists.


I have a simple test.  If the administration claims a particular activity is not torture, a random selection of sons, spouses, and daughters of administration officials have the technique demonstrated on them on television for the length of time it is usually used on suspects (remember these people haven't been convicted of anything).  That can reassure the world that these things are "no worse than a frat hazing" (words of one administration official during a special on the History Channel.)


Not a bad  idea, John. Do you see any of the techniques being used (or likely being used) as permissable? What if some of the detainees were found guilty of being in al-quada (sp?), or acting against American interests?




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:05:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

As an exercise in reality, lets go back through the historical archives and make a list of very powerful nations that were not hated by large groups of people.
 
MY LIST
 
End of list.[;)]


Hey caitlyn [:)]. Hope you're having a good (and dry!) 4th over there; it's soggy over this a-way.
 
And your list and mine are pretty similar.




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:06:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Terrorists do what people expect terorists to do Level but people have higher expectations of America. That's not a bad thing. Many of the desenting voices about American activities on European TV are actually American voices. That also is not a bad thing. It doesn't show America in a bad light but it does however, show the current administration in bad light.


A good point Meatcleaver. And dissent and debate aren't bad things, either.




FangsNfeet -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:26:10 AM)

Everybody hates and or picks on the Biggest Fish. Rome, England, France, Egypt, and even Poland where all dispised and picked on. Being the Super Power comes at price in public oppinion. 

As for judging the "avearge american" May Europeans may not get a good first impression of us. After all, a good majority of Americans who visit Holland are there to smoke legalize pot and participate in the Red Light District.

Anyhow, the USA is the one with the NUKES so why should we care what others think? 




Termyn8or -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:28:36 AM)

How can people all over the world know more about what the US is doing than the sheeple here who yell "number one, number one" ? Media control.

I don't know how many of you have heard of Radio Solidarity in Poland. I know the guy who personally built the transmitter for that venture. He emmigrated to the US in the 90s, after finding it difficult to get licensing to start his business after his imprisonment for that venture. They never actually convicted him, but his time being held under suspicion added up to about 7 months. He explained the operation to me, metal vacuum cleaner wand sections made up the antenna, another cohort had the batteries, and Jaroslaugh, who was not only the electronics guy who built the transmitter, was the fastest runner. Thus he was the one to carry the transmitter when it was time to "bug out". Lek Waleska wanted them to air a tape, a request they had to refuse as it was too long. After all if they got caught it was all over.

They would transmit at the sound carrier frequency of a local TV station during "prime time" and realistically, nobody knows if they had a significant impact. Thing is why does the common man have such difficulty gaining access to the "public" airwaves ?

Well if you think it's bad in Poland, try the US. The US FCC has guns and a SWAT team. They proved it one day. A farmer with a satellite dish obtained one of those "island" FM radio transmitters, probably a 50 watt. Being on a farm and out of range of most local radio stations he fed the output of the dish to the transmitter so he could listen to his satellite radio in his tractor. IIRC, in the area he couldn't recieve anything else anyway.

I think part of the problem is that instead of music, he was rebroadcasting not heavy metal or bluegrass, but ADV, American Dissident Voices. ADV is put out by the Nartional Alliance, which is a highly racist group, but not malevolent. In fact they preach to their members specifically NOT to do any violence, nor even to be bigotted. They tout their main goal as having a seperate living space, though it is unclear how this will ever happen.

Well the federalis came, trashed the guy's house and took all his equipment. they had an armoured vehicle, flack jackets and automatic weapons. We are talking the FCC here ! Why go to such great lengths to secure the airwaves "for the public" ?

You know, you all know exactly why. Then about four years ago the noose tightened, when the next wave of deregulation hit the US communication industry. It is to the point in the US where one entity can own every TV and radio station one can recieve, as well as the local cable and phone companies. Out there are lists of just who owns the TV networks etc., and the list is shrinking. There are not less media outlets, but the control over these outlets bacomes increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few multinational corporations.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am a partnership theorist. We have a partnership between government, big business and the media, but it is not a conspiracy. Their overt goal is to make as much money as possible, but their covert goal is to undermine everything the US is supposed to stand for, it does not fit in with their plans.

I don't know if they still do, but ADV used to be on shortwave. The FCC kept trying to kick them off because "the content appears to be aimed at US audiences". What ? Here's the kicker, go buy a shortwave radio, and look at how the bands are setup. With a cheap one, you will not get ADV, as they were relegated to a band that is omitted on most shortwave radios sold in the US. At about the $250 price level you can buy a radio that will recieve these "forbidden" bands.

Remember the name Jaroslaugh Sykla, he may well have been the last one to breach the powers that be' stranglehold on the airwaves. In the US they probably would've shot him, and now the window of oppotunity is closing rapidly. Why, in the US, is the government mandating that regular NTSC broadcasts be stopped by a certain date and all terrestrial TV broadcasting will be done in HDTV, or even split up HDTV (into multiple low resolution channels) ?

Think of it. I know electronics and could easily take a VCR modulator connected to a camcorder and amplifier and get my message out, but now, so many people who watch any significant amount of TV have cable, or a dish. Can't break in on that. Even ATSC broadcasts, which are actually on the air, do not have a simple sound carrier offset 6 Mhz from the video carrier. Very few people have the wherewithall to encode the new signals, let alone to overpower transmitting towers with megawatt level amplifiers. With NTSC one could target a sound carrier like Sykla, and get a message through, with digital TV you have to completely swamp the TV transmitter signal, figure out the algorythms for the MPEG encoding etc., and while not easy, even if you succeed it will probably only confuse the electronics in the recievers, resulting in garbage, or no output.

Media is the reason the the sheeple keep voting for tweedle dee or tweedle dumb, and control of the media is essential to keep the apple cart upright so to speak.

In this respect the situation in Europe is indeed promising. With the advent of the internet US Citizens can see news from around the world, which is considerably less biased and less dumbed down. Kinda like a backfire for them. I read a few years ago that actually more Americans get their news from the BBC than Brits.

People are waking up slow but sure, and the media masters' interest is to cause this unintended consequence to unfold as slowly as possible. It is OUR money killing children, it is OUR money goose stepping all over the globe. It is OUR money dictating what kind of government other countries should have. If the American People ever woke up, they might just decide to put a stop to it. I certainly would, but I am but one. One cannot bring about the change needed, so how would one get people to rally on the side of what this country is supposed to be, to bring us back to a course of friendly trade and non-inteventionalism as the Founding Fathers intended ? Access to the media. The ability to get the message out.

That's why the FCC has a SWAT team.

That's also why most of the sheeple are unaware that those in the know across the globe do not support the war in Iraq. That's why they get up in arms of outrage when an American soldier is killed in Iraq, and scream for vengance. How dare the Iraqis defend their country ? We went there to kill them, how dare they kill us ? We have the sole right in the world to determine which countries are allowed to defend themselves, and for Iraq, we said NO. We bomb their hospitals, schools and TV station, but the Iraqis just love the American liberators right ? Yeah right. They bombed Al Jazeera, Iraq's main TV network. There wasn't a gun in the place I bet, but they had cameras rolling during the invasion, this had to stop.

BTW, if they were bombing hospitals and schools, which they did, I would assume that there were hospitals and schools. Who built them ? And don't forget, Saddam's trial was hushed up, know why ? The US put him in power and kept him there until he didn't fit the plan. But there is no conspiracy, they call it a partnership when they do it.

Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and the wars in Iraq and Afganistan are why we are hated. Bin Laden was another one. Took him down and heroin production tripled. They said they wanted to stamp out heroin, but the Taliban gave out death sentences for it's production. And don't forget, at one time Bin Laden was closely allied with US interests. I am not even going to go into how the heroin gets here, it may be too much for the squeamish.

Last but not least, it is the American arrogance and ignorance that makes the rest of the world hate us, although some have alot better reasons. I have never read Orwell's 1984, do you think I need to ? American TV has got to be an experiment in stooooopidity, a test so to speak. I have seen drug commercials "ask your doctor if killyastine is right for you" without giving any clue as to what the drug is supposed to do.

I don't mean to sound like a gloomy Gus, but I refuse to bury my head in the sand.

T




LaTigresse -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:35:36 AM)

Having traveled outside the US, several times in groups, I have come to understand why many people have a less than pleasant opinion of us. I now prefer to travel to places that have mostely european tourists, much more pleasant company.
In this thread I read a statement something to the effect that "We are the best!" ........that arrogance is part of the problem. We are the best for us. That does not make what is best for us better for everyone else!
If we are so all bloody powerful, why is our infrastructure getting sooooooooo shaky? Remember why Rome toppled.
I don't believe we need to designate ourselves World Police. We may......or may not it seems......know what is best for us, its arrogant to assume we know what is best for others. Middle eastern countries have been squabbling for centuries and will continue to do so. We do not understand their beliefs or customs, we cannot begin to solve their problems. We cannot change their beliefs or customs, when we behave in a manner that belittles said beliefs or customs it only causes more problems. I believe 9/11 is a fair example of that as is the current administrations underestimation of the situation in Iraq.
To over simplify, it is rather like trying to explain to a vanilla why BDSM is okay, fun, exciting, our thing. They will NEVER get it. It is not part of who they are. They think we are sick and wrong for enjoying the things we enjoy and would love to make all we do illegal. They feel threatened by us and what we do simply because they do not understand it. Yet we continue to say it is our right......yes? We get all upset if there is someone slandered publically or legally prosecuted for "play" between consenting adults.....yes?  Are the vanilla better people than the nonvanilla, do they have the right to condem us and try to stop and change us?
 Not unlike the differences between countries and cultures. Yet, it continues to happen. None are "best", we are just different.




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:46:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Everybody hates and or picks on the Biggest Fish. Rome, England, France, Egypt, and even Poland where all dispised and picked on. Being the Super Power comes at price in public oppinion. 

As for judging the "avearge american" May Europeans may not get a good first impression of us. After all, a good majority of Americans who visit Holland are there to smoke legalize pot and participate in the Red Light District.

Anyhow, the USA is the one with the NUKES so why should we care what others think? 


You're killing me, Fangs [sm=ofcourse.gif].




81song -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:49:32 AM)

Good Post!

Yes and I agree Kedikat after giging I Italy I heard that loud and clear. So now I listen to the BBC and here is hoping we join the world soon.




LaTigresse -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:55:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 81song

Good Post!

Yes and I agree Kedikat after giging I Italy I heard that loud and clear. So now I listen to the BBC and here is hoping we join the world soon.


I agree, the BBC and our local public radio is really the best source we have here for unbiased world news. It always amazes myself and husband how much we learn that is never touched on with other "world news" channels or stations.




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