RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 7:59:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and the wars in Iraq and Afganistan are why we are hated. Bin Laden was another one. Took him down and heroin production tripled. They said they wanted to stamp out heroin, but the Taliban gave out death sentences for it's production. And don't forget, at one time Bin Laden was closely allied with US interests. I am not even going to go into how the heroin gets here, it may be too much for the squeamish.


T


The taliban hardly have clean hands when it comes to the heroin.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/02/18/wafg18.xml



meatcleaver -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 8:01:06 AM)

We Brits don't have much to be proud of nowadays but the BBC seems to be one institution we can be proud of. It is often getting attacked by left, centrist and rightwing politicians for being biased, none of them appear to see the irony of their unholy alliance and how they unwitingly give it credibility.



Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 8:05:47 AM)

I love the BBC website; I check in on it frequently. They ran a good series on the elections in South America recently.



Termyn8or -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 8:06:00 AM)

The taliban hardly have clean hands when it comes to the heroin.

??? Really ???

And the new government does ?

T



Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 8:07:05 AM)

Oh, I never said the current government didn't lol. Just that the taliban weren't totally angelic on the subject.



pahunkboy -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 8:09:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: 81song

Good Post!

Yes and I agree Kedikat after giging I Italy I heard that loud and clear. So now I listen to the BBC and here is hoping we join the world soon.


I agree, the BBC and our local public radio is really the best source we have here for unbiased world news. It always amazes myself and husband how much we learn that is never touched on with other "world news" channels or stations.



this is the best-   lets hear any free speech tv viewers....25 million of us.
http://www.freespeech.org/fscm2/genx.php?name=home



philosophy -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 8:49:19 AM)

wandering idly back to the OP, i wonder if it would be more usefully asked if americans can do anything about their world image........or is it something that the administration is wholly responsible for.........oh, and quite a few countries have nukes now, including France....................



Lordandmaster -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 11:46:42 AM)

Well, yes, but there were PLENTY of people in the intelligence community who knew that he didn't.

Anyway, this thread isn't about whether America really is a big bad bully; the question is why people around the world believe that America is a big bad bully.  I see you constantly defending America in this thread, and I don't understand the purpose.  Like the OP, I'm interested in the reasons for the widespread international dislike of the US.  If this is going to degenerate into another "The US sucks"--"No, the US is great"--debate, then I think that's pointless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Peter, lots of folks, Democrat and Republican alike, thought Sadaam had WMD.



meatcleaver -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 1:19:21 PM)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,,1811997,00.html

I guess this is the sort of thing that makes people react negatively towards the US. I don't know if the facts are right or wrong in the article but how many people check the fact of the news they read but on past record it is believeable.



pahunkboy -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 2:24:33 PM)

as a peon=- i cant communicate with international friends. as a voter i can try to fix this in 06,08.

canada is pretty much the only country that i would feel ok in. i wont lie about being american...thats dumb. ild prefer to say i am from pennsylvania- then to lie.

my advice- hit corporations in the pocket.  money is the only thing that is understood these days.  sad but true.




Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 3:50:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, yes, but there were PLENTY of people in the intelligence community who knew that he didn't.

Anyway, this thread isn't about whether America really is a big bad bully; the question is why people around the world believe that America is a big bad bully.  I see you constantly defending America in this thread, and I don't understand the purpose.  Like the OP, I'm interested in the reasons for the widespread international dislike of the US.  If this is going to degenerate into another "The US sucks"--"No, the US is great"--debate, then I think that's pointless.


I defend America when I think it's needed, and I criticize America when I think it's needed. I speak what I know, and what I believe, to be the truth, that's "the purpose".
 
I've given reasons why I think others look negatively towards this country-- a dislike of Bush, not enough cooperation from the USA with allies, and America bashers passing on their bias.
 
And if this is becoming a "US sucks vs US is great" thread, I hardly think I'm the one who has brought it to such a state. I'm one of the most even-handed people I know. [8|]

Oh, and if there were so "many" in the intel agencies that knew there was no WMD, they did a poor job of convincing Clinton and Europe of it, much less Bush.



Lordandmaster -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:07:42 PM)

You're serious about this?  Who in Europe thought it was a good idea to go to war because of Saddam's supposed WMD's?  Not even our big ally/lapdog, Great Britain, believed that.  We know this from the Downing Street Memo ("Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran").

Anyway, I didn't think this thread was about justifying U.S. policy.  We've had dozens of threads about that.  I thought this thread was about why America's reputation is in tatters.  Rehashing the WMD question doesn't explain why America's reputation is in tatters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Oh, and if there were so "many" in the intel agencies that knew there was no WMD, they did a poor job of convincing Clinton and Europe of it, much less Bush.



sleazybutterfly -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:08:20 PM)

I think it doesn't matter what we do.. or don't do.. people will love us...and hate us.  We are not a perfect country..but there isn't one.  I have never seen a time in history..when we were loved by everyone..nor do I think I ever will.  I think we could let the world vote on our president..and still some country somewhere would not like him.  I don't really see why we care that much...we have never just been out for people to like us..we have just been out to live our lives as a "free people".  We could give every penny we have to aid..and let every single person in..never butt into anyone else's problems..and they would still find something to complain about.
 
                                            andrea



Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:23:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're serious about this?  Who in Europe thought it was a good idea to go to war because of Saddam's supposed WMD's?  Not even our big ally/lapdog, Great Britain, believed that.  We know this from the Downing Street Memo ("Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran").

Anyway, I didn't think this thread was about justifying U.S. policy.  We've had dozens of threads about that.  I thought this thread was about why America's reputation is in tatters.  Rehashing the WMD question doesn't explain why America's reputation is in tatters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Oh, and if there were so "many" in the intel agencies that knew there was no WMD, they did a poor job of convincing Clinton and Europe of it, much less Bush.



LOL Lam.... sure I'm serious. If Europe didn't feel there was something to it, why did they support sanctions?
 
WMDs matter because some think that's at least part of the reason we're in Iraq, and the fact we're in Iraq is part of the reason some dislike us.
 
Now, have a happy 4th, dammit [:)].
 
Level



meatcleaver -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:31:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Not even our big ally/lapdog, Great Britain, believed that. 



I think this feeling of being America's lapdog has made a lot of Britons recoil and caused anti-Americanism to grow in Britain. Though personally I think Blair is the real cause of this and not the US. He should have been more forceful in negotiations with Bush and if he didn't get a result he should have sided with Germany and France.



bluize -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:37:27 PM)

Sleazybutterfly hit the nail on the head and who cares what other countries think of us they are either socialists, marxists or  totalitarian. as for the wmd's, if just one nation said they were there, fine; if 2 or 3 or 4 fine , but every nation said the same thing, they are there, the entire rest of the world could not be wrong at the same time. forget about the rest of the world and get out of the u.n.



meatcleaver -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:50:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluize

Sleazybutterfly hit the nail on the head and who cares what other countries think of us they are either socialists, marxists or  totalitarian. as for the wmd's, if just one nation said they were there, fine; if 2 or 3 or 4 fine , but every nation said the same thing, they are there, the entire rest of the world could not be wrong at the same time. forget about the rest of the world and get out of the u.n.



If you think every country said Iraq had WMD you are sadly mistaken. France and Germany wanted Blix's search to continue because they were convinced they didn't exist. I saw an interview with Chirac on French TV and he implied that he thought that those who thought WMD were in Iraq were in fantasyland or had other motives. The general consensus in Europe was that there wasn't any WMD, even if like Blair, governments for their own reasons decided to go against the popular consensus of their country. Many newly independent eastern European countries sided with the US because Chirac insulted them by saying they should know their place when they questioned why France should think it could dictate EU policy.



LTRsubNW -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:51:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Like who?  The Soviet Union wasn't beloved either.  What other country does it today?


Money is the key.
 
The Ruble is about to become convertible.  It's the only G8 country that doesn't have a convertible currency.
 
Imagine that...the only country that the US included years ago (by request of the G5, at the time{with the US's hammer}) and the only group that had the necessary influence, done by the way only to insure that Russia/USSR had less reason to influence negatively our intentions and would more likely follow our lead (which they did for a time), is now in a position due to global oil pricing (USSR having 5% of the worlds oil supplies) to have a reasonable influence on changing the intractible fact that the world deals in dollars.
 
This is not insignificant.
 
When the world deals in dollars, American banks (and by virtue, American financial influence) are sovereign.  The cost to transfer wealth among nations is significant.  More importantly, when foreign banks control the gate, American banks (and concurrent profits that get dispensed among the population through jobs) lose financial imperative.
 
A book, recently printed, "Princes Of Darkness" about Saudi Arabia is beyond fascinating and of all the books I've recently read...and I read many....this is singularly the one I'd recommend to any and all Americans.
 
I'm not a big fan of George Bush, in fact, as a life long Republican, I take great pride in having not voted for him in either of the two most recent elections.
 
I could never vote for the Democrats, but rest assured, the Republicans aren't on my short list for dinner.
 
Know that, while we would all wish that money wasn't the tune that made everyone dance...it is indeed the world language, it is indeed all that you and I work to avoid the consequences of...and in the larger picture...why would any of us expect that when the numbers get larger that we would all have some Disneyesque assumption that Cinderella would somehow vanquish with her ebullient and rosy personification all that leads up to the obvious...money calls the tune...big money orchestrates nations.
 
Nations with big money determine the song you're about to sing.  Don't believe me?  Show me your balls.  Stop buying oil today. 
 
The bad guys aren't assholes, they're just covering their (and your) collective asses.
 
The big question, ultimately is...are they covering yours...or theirs?
 
And THAT my dear, will determine your allegiance.
 
Debate me until hell freezes over...when you're cold and hungry, your allegiance will change.
 
In the meantime...cover yours.
 
 






Level -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 4:51:52 PM)

bluize, I have to disagree with you as regards the UN. It may fail, but I think the idea of nations working together is vital; we do need to get the corruption out, as well as the mamby-pamby hand-holding that allowed Cuba and Pakistan to be on the Human Rights council.



bluize -> RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? (7/4/2006 5:54:47 PM)

meatcleaver i would love to be mistaken and i will admit it when i'm proved wrong, but the facts are that france and germany helped put the weapons there and wanted more time to get them out. hence , give blix all the time he needs.



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