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Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/26/2013 10:45:26 PM

rebeccaandmark

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

I received this message and would just like to get some other views about the use of the term "Ma'am or Sir" as it pertains.

[lol no only a fake ass cunt think she get called maam when she had nor earned it]

Really? First of all, it should be known that I live in Texas and these terms are used to show polite respect when addressing someone you do not know personally as well as persons of authority, so perhaps this my hang up. The dictionary does give this as the definition. Would that not be paramount in a D/s dialog or interaction? Now, looking past an obvious lack of gasp on the English language and/ or an overall literacy issue, would it not be considered appropriate to require someone to address you by your title or by ma'am when contacting you directly via message, especially the first time? What really concerns me is the "earned"connotation. Regardless of whether a Dominant or submissive, is respect and politeness something to be earned rather than given? I am aware that the term in the lifestyle does denote a Domme's position of authority but does that then negate any other use of the word or allow for blatant/ disrespectful interaction among persons not directly involved in a relationship? I personally would not take on anyone who did not possess an innate propensity for genuine respect as instilling that in an adult would be a daunting task of which I haven't the time or tolerance for and it is an important aspect to me, but am I requiring more than what is generally deemed as acceptable online correspondence? I would welcome other views on this subject. Many thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/26/2013 11:06:46 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

First off, you are new to the site, you will attract a lot of stupid messages in the first few weeks. People who have struck out with the existing members will check the new user list looking for fresh meat. Some of those people are bitter etc. Secondly, this is the internet, where a bit of anonymity makes people feel they can be jerks. Don't take it personally.

Now personally, I don't like the demand to call someone ma'am at the first meeting. I would do it for the queen, or someone who outranks me in a police/military setting. But a stranger on the internet? No.

The reason is twofold - firstly internet kinky dating sites are not generally a formal environment and so I wouldn't expect that level of politeness. (I understand it's a thing where you come from, but it is not universal and lots of users on this site are not from your area).
Secondly, it assumes some level of deference. When we meet for the first time, be it online or in person, we're approaching each other as just two human beings. Anyone can say 'I'm dominant', so it's silly to say anyone who calls themselves dominant should be treated differently than others. Until I agree to defer to you, you're just Rebecca. I'm guessing you don't call potential subs that you speak to here 'sir' or 'ma'am', so it's not a southern-manners thing, it's an 'acknowledge my superiority thing'. It does seem presumptuous.

In your profile you indicate that you would expect anyone approaching you in person to kneel and wait to be chosen. This sounds sexy on paper, but people who are actually putting thought into finding the right person are likely to roll their eyes at that. If I were looking for a domme, I'd want to know we were compatible. I'd want to ask if we wanted the same things, if we shared common interests, if we had similar goals. Kneeling to see if I'm good enough for you overlooks the important fact that the sub also needs to check that you are good enough for them. Short version: it smacks of fantasy to me. I would also feel the same of any sub who feels the need to refer to any and every dominant they come across as 'sir' or 'ma'am' - it seems like they are seeing the other person as a fantasy rather than a human.

The exception to this of course is if you are at an event where this has been pre-agreed by all parties.

It's fine for you to require this - it will weed out folks who feel as I do and disagree with you.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 2

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 3:32:04 AM

Apocalypso

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline

You have a perfect right to want this. Other people have a perfect right to decide it's not their thing. The person who sent you abuse is an idiot and not worth worrying about. Outside of that, there isn't really such a thing as generally "acceptable online correspondence"; it's all subjective and individual.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 3

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 3:46:17 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

You have a perfect right to want this. Other people have a perfect right to decide it's not their thing. The person who sent you abuse is an idiot and not worth worrying about. Outside of that, there isn't really such a thing as generally "acceptable online correspondence"; it's all subjective and individual.

Kerbingo!

Personally, I'm not into honorifics all that much, but if that's your thing then you're right to insist on it.

I'd like to add to Athena's excellent advice as well.

Are you sure you'd enjoy dominating someone who offered instantaneous submission without knowing a thing about you (or you knowing a thing about them) in advance?

As you encounter people, bear in mind that very few subs (and this is especially true, in my experience, of the genuine ones) will offer submission right off the bat - They want to get to know you a little. If someone begins an interaction by addressing me as "Sir" or (shudders) "Master", my gut reaction is to say "I'm not your Sir/Master at this point.... let's see if things develop to the point where Sir/Master becomes appropriate".

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Apocalypso)

Post #: 4

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 3:48:10 AM

Blonderfluff

Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline

As a femsub, I can only speak for myself, and my experience here so far. I would NOT respond to anyone demanding that I call them "Sir", in their first message to me. Actually, I wouldn't respond to anyone who demanded ANYTHING of me. I am A submissive. I am not yet THEIR submissive. Big difference. I don't surrender my will to just anyone. To ask that of a potential partner that you are reaching out to is very off-putting. Now. I do understand the whole "good manners" thing. However, we are on a BDSM site. The use of "Sir" and "Ma'am" DO mean something different here.

Bottom line. You can make your "demands " in your profile and in your messages. But. You will limit yourself by doing so, and possibly miss out on a wonderful submissive.

_____________________________

Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to Apocalypso)

Post #: 5

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 4:50:27 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Is this your first time on the internet?

Geeze, you are going to encounter some idiots.

Learn to develop a thick skin, use the block and delete keys, and don't lower your standards.

I think expecting someone you don't even know to call you Ma'am or Sir is silly, but that's me. Some people love high protocol.

_____________________________

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 6

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 4:59:42 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccaandmark
Would that not be paramount in a D/s dialog or interaction?

Why would you want to engage in a D/s interaction with someone you don't even know? I save that kind of stuff for people I trust and like.

It tends to be the internet-only findoms who insist that people submit to them on the basis of their profile text alone. That's probably why you got the message that called you fake.

I won't say you're fake, but I will say that your approach seems kinda dumb, because you'll be screening out anyone who wants to approach you as a respected equal first, and submit only after there's compatibility.

Good luck.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 7

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 5:27:12 AM

SweetAnise

Posts: 480
Joined: 8/23/2013
Status: offline

People on the internet behave very poorly...take it with grain of salt. As for the word ma'am...I personally find nothing wrong with being called ma'am...I actually prefer it...I find it respectful. Good luck

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 8

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 7:42:43 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

I have no issue with that, but still have a hard time getting used to Goreans calling me "Master". It's OK in their protocol, but different from non-Goreans.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to SweetAnise)

Post #: 9

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 8:12:59 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccaandmark
Would that not be paramount in a D/s dialog or interaction?

I do not engage in D/s or power dynamics with people I don't know. So, no, it wouldn't be paramount in a D/s interaction with a stranger on the internet. There's no way in hell I'd call someone I don't know Sir or Ma'am in this context.

You can request that people do that, but understand that people with healthy boundaries most likely won't do it. (And it it will make some people question your boundaries)

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 10

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 8:19:03 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

"would it not be considered appropriate to require someone to address you by your title or by ma'am when contacting you directly via message, especially the first time?"

I wouldn't consider it appropriate or inappropriate, it's a personal preference. If that is how you want people to address you in the first email, that's your choice. Just don't be surprised if people don't listen. As others have said there are assholes online. All you have done is let one of them know he not only got into your head but stayed long enough to get you to write about him.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 11

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 9:09:29 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I get the southern habits of using sir and maam when chatting up new people. But, this is the web, it goes well beyond southern gentilities. Expect that people will not randomly use it to address strangers. I detest when people call me maam, it makes me feel old.. ok I detested it a lot more when I wasn't old, now it is not so horrifying.

In d/s the sir maam thing is more about role than politeness. Learn that quickly and you will be a lot more content

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 12

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 9:32:10 AM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

I snipped this quote in order to remove things I'm not addressing:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccaandmark
I received this message and would just like to get some other views about the use of the term "Ma'am or Sir" as it pertains.
........Would that not be paramount in a D/s dialog or interaction?
......would it not be considered appropriate to require someone to address you by your title or by ma'am when contacting you directly via message, especially the first time? What really concerns me is the "earned"connotation.

....... am aware that the term in the lifestyle does denote a Domme's position of authority but does that then negate any other use of the word or allow for blatant/ disrespectful interaction among persons not directly involved in a relationship?

......I personally would not take on anyone who did not possess an innate propensity for genuine respect as instilling that in an adult would be a daunting task of which I haven't the time or tolerance for and it is an important aspect to me

......am I requiring more than what is generally deemed as acceptable online correspondence? I would welcome other views on this subject. Many thanks.

Certainly using "Ma'am" or "Sir" is not "paramount" in a D/s communication, especially the first time when there is no dynamic between the two of you. Plus, why would it be considered D/s communication when you are not yet that submissive's Dominant? Why should someone recognize you as anything more than another human being s/he is getting to know as a person when you are not their Domme? Subs and slaves the world over have a saying that goes like this: "I may be a sub but I'm not your sub."

I agree that the use of "Ma'am" or "Sir" can be used for respect between people not involved in D/s, however, this is a BDSM site and on here it does normally mean something different. I would never expect someone who was not my own submissive to call me "Ma'am" because I am not his Domme. When I used to be a submissive, I would never automatically call someone "Sir" just because he checked off the Dominant box, as he was not MY Sir.

I don't think there is any universal protocol for online correspondence, but not everyone will communicate in the same way. If its that important to you that someone call you "Ma'am" from the very beginning, then just use it as a screening tool to screen out those who don't meet your requirements. Easy peasy.

NBMG

_____________________________

I'm now SweetlySadistic1 on CollarSpace. NBMG is an old profile, please see my new one.

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 13

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 10:18:27 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

Grins-I wuz raised all right n proper like so I call most everyone Maam and Sir.

Does a fine job of covering the fact that I suck at remembering names so politeness takes me off the hook

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to NiceButMeanGirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 11:00:57 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Until you have demonstrated to me that you deserve respect, I won't give you any. I will use common civility but that's as far as it goes. Demanding something you haven't earned gets you even less of it.

Sir/Ma'am may be common where you are but this is the world wide web and most people are not local to you.

Beyond that, demanding someone meets you in a Starbucks and kneel to you is just stupid. And unacceptably rude to all the people at the other tables who will be staring, expecting to watch a marriage proposal.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 15

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/27/2013 11:29:00 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Beyond that, demanding someone meets you in a Starbucks and kneel to you is just stupid.

That's really in the profile? Wow. My first thought would be, "I wonder if this is a teenage boy typing a hot fantasy while on Thanksgiving break."

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/28/2013 1:27:39 AM

StrictlySussex

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/25/2013
Status: offline

I like to be called Sir but only when the occasion calls for it. Certainly after a few emails I wouldn't dream of expecting someone to use that term. I'd never expect a sub to call me Sir the first time we met, unless at an event/party where there is an accepted code of conduct.

The online world has a lot of immature trolls. That think BDSM D/s means calling someone Sir/Ma'am and then f*cking them (pardon my French).
If someone demanded I addressed them as Sir/Ma'am without any other contact, agreement, friendship, social engagement they would simply be ignore for eternity.

If you want to call me Sir, or want to call someone Ma'am then do it on YOUR terms. Don't pander to the bullies online and in the "real" world.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 17

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/28/2013 7:38:29 AM

MasterCaneman

Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Grins-I wuz raised all right n proper like so I call most everyone Maam and Sir.

Does a fine job of covering the fact that I suck at remembering names so politeness takes me off the hook

That just described my use of the terms to a T. In scene, I didn't make any demands/requests/requirements as to what my partners called me. I let them determine the terminology because half of it was their scene as well. Some went with "Sir", some with "Master", others preferred to use various other appellations to goad me on. All depends on the person, scene, and situation really.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 18

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/28/2013 7:59:00 AM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

In a vanilla context "Ma'am and Sir" are the acceptable terms to refer to someone you just met, AS A SHOW OF POLITE RESPECT. It has nothing to do with D/s. You wouldn't refer to a stranger as "Hey you." A prime example is if you work in retail or the restaurant industry. When greeting you would say, "Hello Ma'am, is there anything I can get for you?"

In D/s it is best to start vanilla and work onward from there. So no, one does NOT have to "EARN" the title of Ma'am or Sir.

Kneeling and serving are another matter entirely and should not be expected on the first meet.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)

Post #: 19

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/28/2013 1:25:44 PM

orgasmdenial12

Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline

I'm not ma'am, and I would block and delete anyone who called me ma'am.

A lot of wanky submissives get off on calling women ma'am or mistress and, in their minds, play acting submission to them. I'm not wank fodder for submissive fantasies, and I don't appreciate being called ma'am.

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 20

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