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RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/28/2013 6:45:20 PM

DarkLyDesires

Posts: 36
Joined: 9/24/2013
Status: offline

I use the terms sir or ma'am in real life in situations that call for it, such as if I am addressing them at my job or upon introduction, etc. I do not call potential Doms Sir right away while we are getting to know each other, because using the term on this site or in person with him implies a certain relationship that I am not going to commit to without knowing the person pretty well first. In this context, Sir means something special to me and I don't want to use it offhandedly. As far as using it when I am on a site such as this, or the internet in general, I do not use the terms sir or ma'am unless I am writing for work and politeness and respect is required.

I don't see anything wrong with requiring the use of the term if that is what you want to do, but I would not do that because of the potential of losing out on meeting compatible people because of the misuse/disuse of one word. Before you know someone is very early to require a "dealbreaker" form of address., imo, but that's why it's a free country. :)

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 21

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/28/2013 7:07:39 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
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I'm with Kana on this. I was raised to say ma'am and sir.
But that has nothing to do with this type of thing. I wouldn't expect that right upfront.

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Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to DarkLyDesires)

Post #: 22

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/29/2013 12:11:54 PM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

I usually see those that insist on being addressed with a term of respect without being known to be respectable to be petulant children standing on he furniture screaming "I have a great big tonker" whether they do or not.

Yep, a bit of a run on sentence but follows my stream of consciousness on the thought... <giggle>

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 23

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/29/2013 2:17:31 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

I'm with Kana on this. I was raised to say ma'am and sir.
But that has nothing to do with this type of thing. I wouldn't expect that right upfront.

Other than what is mine... I have never expected the use of Sir when addressing me. However there are many that have address me as such without any inference on my part or discussion between us. I will say that whenever someone addresses me as such the first thought I have is why are they doing it. Are they doing it to make themselves sound all submissive like or is there alittle more substance happening? I fnd the former to be less consistent and have little thought on who they use it with. The latter tends to be much more consistent and selective in their use of it. I find the latter to be much more appealing when I hear it regardless if it's directed to me or another person.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 11/29/2013 2:18:23 PM >

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 24

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/29/2013 4:52:26 PM

Moonlightmaddnes

Posts: 958
Joined: 6/4/2012
Status: offline

My husband who is very dominant says ma'am and sir a lot, probably for the same reasons as Kana.

As far as D/s goes, you may be a Dom or a Master but you are not mine. I show general politeness to everyone but keep Sir in a D/s sense for my husband alone.

_____________________________

Submission is a gift that must be earned. It can be given, but never taken

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 25

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 4:30:48 AM

rebeccaandmark

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

Many thanks to all who took the time to reply and share your thoughts and insight on this subject. After mauling it around for a few days my reply is as follows:

First, to address the more off topic "on your knees comment in my profile", which, although I had already deemed as poorly written in haste after reading about the 10th irritating message (and it is not a matter of thin skin so much as I have a short temper). I deliberately left it there though in fairness to the person who sent me the original message, and took the risk that this thread would go off topic. I agree that it is poorly written. What I gleaned from this thread is that I can be interpreted as a "demand" although it was not my intention to do such...this is good to know. I would not make a demand on a complete stranger and that thought never crossed my mind, so thank you Athenasurrenders, because of your response I will be more careful how I write, my opinions. Honestly, I had petitioned my Dom to allow me to shut it down and was denied. He feels that this is a learning experience and will step in as it is needed. Now, my intention was to convey the dynamic I am accustomed to as a submissive, which includes high protocol. The request was to address me as "Domme Becca or Ma'am". I'll get to that a little later in this post. As for being on your knees. It is a profound experience( for anyone who has an iota of self respect) in humility the first time it is done in submission (as opposed to cleaning under the kitchen sink), and I personally hold the opinion that that experience should only be shared with someone you have deemed worthy. Secondly, it may sound sexy on paper, but I can personally attest that any length of time spent in that position (or standing in the corner for that matter) not directly engaged in an activity, is boring as hell and really does push the limits of discomfort.Will I do it, every time. Why? Because my will to please him supersedes my desire to get up, brush myself off and sit in a chair. So no, my comment isn't borrowed from a saucy romance novel excerpt.

Now, to delve in to the topic at hand. After all that has been said I agree with Apocalypso and thihereboii...it IS subjective,and this is why. Let's take another word that isn't really used on this site "love". Now I love enchiladas, I love my grandmother, I love ass play, and I also use it as a term of endearment (don't worry about putting the groceries away Love, just put the bags on the counter). Each one of these has a very different meaning and feelings associated with it. So let's say you never use it as a term of endearment, you are down to 3... no Grammy ? Down again...and so on. So if I take the address of Sir/Ma'am to have 4 different meanings and you only associate it with the lifestyle then we are both right. You should NOT call a stranger that if you are not comfortable. But it is a two way street, because perhaps you only hold the one meaning but shouldn't assume that the person you are speaking to holds the same and is blatantly requiring immediate submission. I never called my Dom anything other than Sir, but there was a paradigm shift in the meaning when I deemed him worthy of submission. So is the term earned...if the person wielding thinks so, then it is. Duly noted.

And so on I go...further down the rabbit hole. Do I feel that because a person reserves the singular meaning of Sir/Ma'am gives them the right to contact me in what I feel is a disrespectful manner? In a word no. Especially if I address my feelings about it in my profile. Now, the" address me as Domme Becca or Ma'am" . If you find either if these two terms as unpalatable because you feel that it "assumes a level of deference" then you own those feelings, and as I see it you are allowing others to define you, and you do not possess a strong enough personality to submit on the level that I seek. It stops there and we are both the better for it. Personally, no one defines me. They have their opinion, but I define myself and it is constantly evolving. So, even if I had a personal reason to not call someone Ma'am in an initial correspondence, is using the term Domme Becca really much different than if someone says . Yeah my name is Michael Smith but please call me Mike. We are on a BDSM website where everyone is identified with one or more aspects within the kink and the main topic is power exchange. If you went to a gardening forum or a professional forum that I frequent and addressed me Domme Becca, I'd likely say I don't know what you are talking about (although I do venture to guess that many would snicker and agree with you because of my personality). Yes, we are two human beings in equal footing, but you are approaching and petitioning me as a submissive. And by addressing me as I have requested (and I will state "respectfully request " to dispel any notion of a demand) I would feel inclined to respond because you have taken my preference in you regard. Will I use sir or ma'am when speaking with a submissive, mostly no, with the only two exceptions being they specifically request it and I concur with the reason or if in age play and I am talking to you in that manner (no ma'am...get back in that corner this instant). But I will use a name that you prefer, even if I don't find it to be tasteful (ie sloppycocksucker). Another thing, "Hey there cunt" is general and in my opinion does apply deference. I could have called the person in my previous message that as well, and they could all be cunts from here on out.By addressing you by name, you know that I hear and consider you and your specific petition for my attention, and you will get it. if I receive a message that says dear Domme Becca, I think you should fuck off, depending on how the mood strikes me, you are likely to get a message back that says dear sir, I would like to invite you to do the same. I require respectful banter to elicit a response, but your opinions are your own.

So, to close I would have to say pending a more articulate delivery, although I am aware of the meaning/s behind the terms of Sir/Ma'am, I do maintain my request for what I see as appropriate respectful address in any message a person wishes for me to read. One, if the first line does not measure up then it makes it very easy to weed out those who did not take the time to read my profile, it staves off those who are uncomfortable with what I'm looking for, and it takes into account my deep seated ideals about respect. As always I welcome any further comments on the subject and I again extend my appreciation for those who replied.

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 26

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 5:06:39 AM

Blonderfluff

Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline

Best of luck. Methinks you will need it.

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I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 27

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 7:01:29 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

I agree with you that you should keep it in your profile. Since it is obviously of great importance to you, then you should use it to screen out people who disagree on this issue. That makes good sense - weed out those who can't or won't give you what you deem essential.

I'm not sure how strength of personality comes into this issue though.

Your point about words being used in different ways is valid, but to expect people to make no assumptions based on the words you use is unrealistic. Of course we are all aware words can be used in different ways, and part of being able to read and communicate is inferring meaning from both words and context. I would question a person's reading comprehension if they thought that 'love' had an identical meaning in the sentences 'I love enchiladas' and 'I love my granny', because the context should be enough to distinguish.

In this case, however, you're addressing an international audience, and the only common tie they have is an interest in D/s and/or BDSM. As such the context of power exchange is a given, the context of Southern Manners is not. I don't think that people who don't share your cultural background could be blamed for assuming you were using the word 'ma'am' in the most common context for this environment. And in fact, that IS how you are using it, unless you intend to refer to every sub you speak to in the same way.

I don't buy this 'you are petitioning me as a submissive'. The fact that I'm technically a sub means nothing. I'm petitioning you as a human being, asking to get to know you a bit, and see if I might want to sub to you. Approaching you 'in role' IS giving you power you haven't yet earned. You are welcome to have that as your requirement, but if I were in your shoes I'd worry that I was selecting for exactly the opposite type of person that I would want as a sub - someone ready to submit to anyone and dominated by fantasy.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 28

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 7:43:40 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

I have clipped your wall of text to only deal with the relevant portions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccaandmark

Honestly, I had petitioned my Dom to allow me to shut it down and was denied. He feels that this is a learning experience and will step in as it is needed.

Really? Because your profile is certainly no longer visible.

quote:

Now, to delve in to the topic at hand. After all that has been said I agree with Apocalypso and thihereboii...it IS subjective,and this is why. Let's take another word that isn't really used on this site "love". Now I love enchiladas, I love my grandmother, I love ass play, and I also use it as a term of endearment (don't worry about putting the groceries away Love, just put the bags on the counter). Each one of these has a very different meaning and feelings associated with it. So let's say you never use it as a term of endearment, you are down to 3... no Grammy ? Down again...and so on. So if I take the address of Sir/Ma'am to have 4 different meanings and you only associate it with the lifestyle then we are both right. You should NOT call a stranger that if you are not comfortable. But it is a two way street, because perhaps you only hold the one meaning but shouldn't assume that the person you are speaking to holds the same and is blatantly requiring immediate submission. I never called my Dom anything other than Sir, but there was a paradigm shift in the meaning when I deemed him worthy of submission. So is the term earned...if the person wielding thinks so, then it is. Duly noted.

Sorry, but I'm not buying your attempt to justify your reasoning here.

quote:

And so on I go...further down the rabbit hole. Do I feel that because a person reserves the singular meaning of Sir/Ma'am gives them the right to contact me in what I feel is a disrespectful manner? In a word no. Especially if I address my feelings about it in my profile. Now, the" address me as Domme Becca or Ma'am" . If you find either if these two terms as unpalatable because you feel that it "assumes a level of deference" then you own those feelings, and as I see it you are allowing others to define you, and you do not possess a strong enough personality to submit on the level that I seek. It stops there and we are both the better for it. Personally, no one defines me. They have their opinion, but I define myself and it is constantly evolving. So, even if I had a personal reason to not call someone Ma'am in an initial correspondence, is using the term Domme Becca really much different than if someone says . Yeah my name is Michael Smith but please call me Mike. We are on a BDSM website where everyone is identified with one or more aspects within the kink and the main topic is power exchange. If you went to a gardening forum or a professional forum that I frequent and addressed me Domme Becca, I'd likely say I don't know what you are talking about (although I do venture to guess that many would snicker and agree with you because of my personality). Yes, we are two human beings in equal footing, but you are approaching and petitioning me as a submissive. And by addressing me as I have requested (and I will state "respectfully request " to dispel any notion of a demand) I would feel inclined to respond because you have taken my preference in you regard. Will I use sir or ma'am when speaking with a submissive, mostly no, with the only two exceptions being they specifically request it and I concur with the reason or if in age play and I am talking to you in that manner (no ma'am...get back in that corner this instant). But I will use a name that you prefer, even if I don't find it to be tasteful (ie sloppycocksucker). Another thing, "Hey there cunt" is general and in my opinion does apply deference. I could have called the person in my previous message that as well, and they could all be cunts from here on out.By addressing you by name, you know that I hear and consider you and your specific petition for my attention, and you will get it. if I receive a message that says dear Domme Becca, I think you should fuck off, depending on how the mood strikes me, you are likely to get a message back that says dear sir, I would like to invite you to do the same. I require respectful banter to elicit a response, but your opinions are your own.

So, to close I would have to say pending a more articulate delivery, although I am aware of the meaning/s behind the terms of Sir/Ma'am, I do maintain my request for what I see as appropriate respectful address in any message a person wishes for me to read. One, if the first line does not measure up then it makes it very easy to weed out those who did not take the time to read my profile, it staves off those who are uncomfortable with what I'm looking for, and it takes into account my deep seated ideals about respect. As always I welcome any further comments on the subject and I again extend my appreciation for those who replied.

So basically if someone addressed an email as "Dear Rebecca," you find them disrespectful? You aren't someone's dominant, and you haven't earned the title.

Giving yourself a title on the internet is meaningless, and to me, for most who use it tends to come off as pompous.

But here is my question to you.....How respectful are you when addressing a submissive you don't know? Based on your "Southern" raising, you should be referring to them as "Ma'am" or "Sir," yet I'm sure you don't, and feel they don't deserve that "respect" when first getting to know them. To me, this says your whole "Southern" upbringing comments were nothing more than excuses to lead into you not being address with the respect you feel you deserve but haven't earned.

(in reply to rebeccaandmark)

Post #: 29

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 8:50:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If you are only interested in a high protocol relationship then you need to state that on your profile.

I presume your dom will not interfere with your sub or how you interact with him. Otherwise, you need to be clear about that. As nobody interested in interacting with you is automatically willing to submit to this guy they haven't spoken to.

You also need to make it clear that you are a sub because many people hard limit switches.

To do otherwise means you prove yourself to be someone not worthy of respect. A lie of omission is still a lie.

If you only want someone who is also Southern and uses sir and ma'am as you do, then state it on your profile. And as others have said, the onus is on you to prove that this is your general manners with everyone else by using it to a sub. If you don't write to subs saying sir and ma'am, then everything you've ranted about is a lie, plain and simple.

_____________________________

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 30

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 12:48:14 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
I'm not sure how strength of personality comes into this issue though.

Someone well above me on the totem pole holds doors open for me on a regular basis. It's entirely possible to show respect and be deferential, while remaining in charge. That, to me, is an indication of strength of personality.

To the OP: I don't know how much more you'll gain from message board posts at the moment. I think you're at a "learn by doing" stage right now. Fast forward a few weeks, and either you'll find people who seem like really good possibilities, even if none of them work out in the end, or you won't find any good possibilities. If you don't find anyone interesting in your inbox in a couple weeks, at that point you might want to change the way you're baiting your hook, in order to attract the people you want to attract.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 31

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 11/30/2013 2:50:03 PM

ante

Posts: 21
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

I rarely call men Sir, even when I know them well. It takes a lot for me to reach that stage and when I do, it's recognised as an honour.. which is how I see it. I only call someone Sir when they have earned considerable respect from me.

It's not natural for me to call anyone Sir and certainly not Ma'am. The latter has never happened.

To some I have found that it is protocol, something they expect, however if they insist when you tell them it's uncomfortable and doesn't feel right to you, I'd move on. The genuine ones will either allow you to go at your own speed and let you know that they will expect it when you are comfortable and feel they've earned it, or the insecure ones who thinks it's a sign of disrespect not to utter it immediately purely based on them calling themselves a dom, just speak of insecurity in my book.

Some will say it doesn't matter to them if you do or don't but in my experience I have never had one feel bad when I've reached that point with them. I've usually had the response that they thought I would get there eventually but that it honoured them that I'd reached the decision on my own rather than having to be pushed into it, or did it because I thought it was protocol and expected.

I don't intend to change!

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 32

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/2/2013 11:59:44 AM

piggywig

Posts: 9
Joined: 9/8/2012
Status: offline

Hmm. Well, since you no longer seem to have a profile, Ma'am, I suspect the matter for this time falls! But my two penn'orth; I do generally address people with appropriate honorifics in a first message; either the one they are showing on their profile, or a simple 'Ma'am' or 'Sir'. I don't really see that as giving my submission away; its just my personal choice for being polite to people. If they demonstrate in subsequent communication that they don't deserve it, it soon stops.
A thought - maybe I should put on my profile that my preferred form of address when -if! - anyone contacts me is 'pig', 'slut', or whatever!

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 33

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/2/2013 12:30:08 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

I think that if that is your comfortable way of addressing an introductory email, that's fine. However, it's not for everyone.

In regards to the OP, they seem to have dual reasons that contradict each other.

First, they claim because they are southern, this is how they were taught to address people.

Second, they say they find it disrespectful if introductory emails aren't addressed to them that way (which disregards that not everyone is southern raised).

They certainly make no mention that they would address any s-type they send an introductory email as "Dear Sir or Madam," which discounts their claim of it being a southern trait, as well as making them come off as pompous.

(in reply to piggywig)

Post #: 34

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/2/2013 4:43:25 PM

AdorkableAiley

Posts: 920
Joined: 9/12/2011
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Based on your reasoning for wanting to be called ma'am right off the bat, wouldn't it stand to reason that you then also call them ma'am or sir out of respect? You are saying it is a respect thing that you address someone you are just meeting as such, so are you addressing them as ma'am or sir as well since you are also just meeting them?

Just curious.

Ailey

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 35

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/3/2013 2:01:44 PM

Cyb3rP3t

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/26/2013
Status: offline

When I adress to a female domme, i preffer the term Miss or Misstress, I feel ma'am doesnt show my place as a sub bitch. When Its about a male Dom I use the terms Daddy or Master, just by saying those I can feel how my whole mind and body get ready to give the control to someone else.

(in reply to AdorkableAiley)

Post #: 36

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/3/2013 3:01:56 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyb3rP3t

When I adress to a female domme, i preffer the term Miss or Misstress, I feel ma'am doesnt show my place as a sub bitch.

But what if the Domme requests that you call her "Ma'am". She may not want you to call her Miss or Mistress.

It sounds like you may be focusing more on what YOU want (or more specifically, what makes you feel like a "sub bitch") than you are the desires of the Domme.

My advice would be to ask her what she wants to be called, and then call her that (even if you don't think that it "shows your place as a sub bitch").

(in reply to Cyb3rP3t)

Post #: 37

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/3/2013 3:03:57 PM

Miyani

Posts: 248
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline

Thanks for saving me the keystrokes. ;)

The way you show your place as a sub bitch is by being a sub bitch, not forcing your sub bitchness on people.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 38

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/4/2013 8:04:43 AM

obedientnwilling

Posts: 35
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline

Where I grew up, we just used these terms for emphasis. When you say "yes, sir," you expect your remarks to be treated as having high importance or special relevance. When you say "ma'am, may I please ask you the time," you expect that person to assume that your house is going to burn down if you don't know the time right that instant. I have never EVER used these terms to express respect or subordination, although I don't consider them to be disrespectful, either.

Now, sometimes when I'm feeling cute, I'll refer to a woman I consider to be a friend as "frau" with a silly school-child voice, but that's just me being a goof. For some reason, I find the German accent to be absolutely adorable, and the language tickles me to the gills.

(in reply to Miyani)

Post #: 39

RE: Use of the term "Ma'am" or Sir - 12/4/2013 3:49:48 PM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

The way you show your place as a sub bitch is by being a sub bitch, not forcing your sub bitchness on people.

QFFT.
Squared

_____________________________

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HST

(in reply to obedientnwilling)

Post #: 40

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