RE: Minimum wage in america

RE: Minimum wage in america (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/1/2013 8:07:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Not speaking for them, but the minimum wage reached its peak purchasing power in 1968... even though the number has gone up, the effect has lagged. quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 That kinda ignores a lot of principles of economics, the biggest of which being inflation. Inflation has raised prices over the years, but from what I know, minimum wage in the US hasn't gone up to compensate since the mid 1900s. How can you keep up with inflation if you're making less than what you need to survive? Minimum wage was raised July 24th, 2009 and in September 2013 California approved to raise the minimum wage to $10 by 2016. I was simply addressing his statement that minimum wage hadn't gone up sine the mid-1900's.

graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/1/2013 8:11:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie More specifically, getting those who currently can only obtain a minimum wage job, educated enough to acquire said jobs. Sure, but jobs have to exist for them to aquire. We've been doing this whole "get people more educated so they can get better jobs" thing for decades, and the result is that you need a bachelor's degree to get a $12/hour job as a receptionist, and in white-collar work a graduate degree is required to do much more than entry-level work.

EdBowie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/1/2013 8:39:14 PM)
I read it as 'hasn't gone up to compensate'. quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Not speaking for them, but the minimum wage reached its peak purchasing power in 1968... even though the number has gone up, the effect has lagged. quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 That kinda ignores a lot of principles of economics, the biggest of which being inflation. Inflation has raised prices over the years, but from what I know, minimum wage in the US hasn't gone up to compensate since the mid 1900s. How can you keep up with inflation if you're making less than what you need to survive? Minimum wage was raised July 24th, 2009 and in September 2013 California approved to raise the minimum wage to $10 by 2016. I was simply addressing his statement that minimum wage hadn't gone up sine the mid-1900's.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/1/2013 9:37:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie More specifically, getting those who currently can only obtain a minimum wage job, educated enough to acquire said jobs. Sure, but jobs have to exist for them to aquire. We've been doing this whole "get people more educated so they can get better jobs" thing for decades, and the result is that you need a bachelor's degree to get a $12/hour job as a receptionist, and in white-collar work a graduate degree is required to do much more than entry-level work. No argument, but without it, they couldn't even get those in this environment, and worse....when the economy eventually turns around, they may rise to a better position but for that degree (except for some obvious few....some on CM rise to my current list), and worse still...the rest of the world in many developing countries aren't waiting for us to do so. Their kids are however, getting 12 month K - 14 schooling, with math and sciences as their base. That ain't gonna look purty in another 10 years. (In fact, it ain't looking purty at the moment based on import/export numbers).

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/1/2013 9:45:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The key point you don't seem to understand is that minimum wage is an entry level wage not a living wage. Why does it being "entry level" mean that it should be too low for a single adult to survive on? Why is it morally or fiscally reasonable for people to be forced to rely on welfare for five or ten or more years until they get enough in raises to earn a living wage? For the same reason a Pinto Station wagon isn't a 747. No one is forcing anyone to go on welfare. I know plenty of people in the last 40 years who, on minimum wage, with children, owned a house 20 years later, a car...paid for, working washers and dryers, etc. It can be done. It's easy to be wealthy (honest). Being broke is unbelievably hard work. Frankly, I can't imagine why so many prefer to be broke. Based on my own personal experience and others I've seen do it on less than I have....I'm more than clear, it's a fact.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/2/2013 3:14:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie More specifically, getting those who currently can only obtain a minimum wage job, educated enough to acquire said jobs. Sure, but jobs have to exist for them to aquire. We've been doing this whole "get people more educated so they can get better jobs" thing for decades, and the result is that you need a bachelor's degree to get a $12/hour job as a receptionist, and in white-collar work a graduate degree is required to do much more than entry-level work. Part of that is because people didn't get the right Bachelor's Degree. If 7M kids graduated with degrees in accounting, how many accounting jobs do you suppose there are for them to get? No one is owed a job. Just because you get a degree doesn't mean you are going to get the job you want. Just not flunking out of college doesn't even earn you a job. Just because you qualify for a job doesn't mean you get that job.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/2/2013 4:58:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie More specifically, getting those who currently can only obtain a minimum wage job, educated enough to acquire said jobs. Sure, but jobs have to exist for them to aquire. We've been doing this whole "get people more educated so they can get better jobs" thing for decades, and the result is that you need a bachelor's degree to get a $12/hour job as a receptionist, and in white-collar work a graduate degree is required to do much more than entry-level work. Part of that is because people didn't get the right Bachelor's Degree. If 7M kids graduated with degrees in accounting, how many accounting jobs do you suppose there are for them to get? No one is owed a job. Just because you get a degree doesn't mean you are going to get the job you want. Just not flunking out of college doesn't even earn you a job. Just because you qualify for a job doesn't mean you get that job. GAWDAMMIT DeSi!!!! I'm quoted....someone's gonna fucking demand LINKS to prove everything...... I'm gonna have to show them links to prove what I said or....I'm a lying sack of shit!!!! (Thanks a lot!!!!!)

papassion -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 12:25:20 PM)
If you have minimum education If you have minimum skills If you put forth minimum effort If you provide minimum contribution to the company Why do you think you should get more than minimum wage? Minimum wage is relative. Look at countries that have a higher minimum wage like Australia. everything is higher priced and Real estate is crazy priced. bottom line, you can't buy a house in the US on minimum wage. You can't buy a house in Australia with their higher minimum wage. What they are really saying is, I want my wages to go up, YOURS should stay the same! When wages go up, prices go up. The only ones who make out are the governments. More income tax and more sales tax!

mnottertail -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 12:31:56 PM)
what if you put in more?

papassion -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 12:42:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie More specifically, getting those who currently can only obtain a minimum wage job, educated enough to acquire said jobs. Sure, but jobs have to exist for them to aquire. We've been doing this whole "get people more educated so they can get better jobs" thing for decades, and the result is that you need a bachelor's degree to get a $12/hour job as a receptionist, and in white-collar work a graduate degree is required to do much more than entry-level work. Part of that is because people didn't get the right Bachelor's Degree. If 7M kids graduated with degrees in accounting, how many accounting jobs do you suppose there are for them to get? No one is owed a job. Just because you get a degree doesn't mean you are going to get the job you want. Just not flunking out of college doesn't even earn you a job. Just because you qualify for a job doesn't mean you get that job. Right, the tough courses that are heavy in chemistry, physics, advanced math, etc, are the courses you need to get a good job today. Pharmacists start around $100,000.00 in Pittsburgh. The hospital pharmacist in our small town makes 120,000.00/yr. But pharmacy is a tough, 5 to 6 year course. Everyone knows education in a good field is required for a successful life, but people still think that doesn't apply to them, take the easy courses, Then are bitter because they don't make the big bucks.

papassion -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 12:44:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail what if you put in more? You did and you got more, right?

mnottertail -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 12:50:27 PM)
nope

MrRodgers -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 1:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExoticInterests Well, let's try this one. How about an employer can offer what they think the job is worth. If the employee is worth more than that, the competition will gladly offer that employee a little more $. If the first employer doesn't raise what he's willing to pay too, he will soon find himself with no competent employees and out of business. This works best for skilled jobs, but lets not forget that the service industry still actually does involve skill, or at least some sense....everyone has had rude, dirty, incompetent cashier's (for example)...did it make you want to go back there? If the competition offers a little bit better pay but only employs people that treat the customer well and make a good impression, and you do not, then you will be left with the bottom of the bucket. Want proof, compare Chick-fil-A and that grease joint with the arches. Which do you enjoy more? Almost never happens though. That's because there's likely dozens of people all applying for the same job. If anything, all employers can lower there lowest offer because of it. Oh and as for minimum wage ? Australia's minimum wage is almost $17/hr....unemployment is about 5%...they've suffered through 10 or 12 years straight of a growing economy too. What is wrong with those people ? When will they learn, a higher minimum wage lowers employment, hurts the economy, at least...so we are told by the bankers in govt. and the repubs. Never mind...it's never been true.

PeonForHer -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 2:18:43 PM)
quote: Oh and as for minimum wage ? Australia's minimum wage is almost $17/hr....unemployment is about 5%...they've suffered through 10 or 12 years straight of a growing economy too. What is wrong with those people ? When will they learn, a higher minimum wage lowers employment, hurts the economy, at least...so we are told by the bankers in govt. and the repubs. Never mind...it's never been true. Exactly. This thread is weird. To me, it seems like many people are talking about the economy in the same way as they used to talk about medicine in the dark ages. 'This is what I believe would happen if the minimum wage were to be raised . . . ' I mean, really, why bother? One thing that became abundantly clear after the Great Depression of the 1930s was that people's economic "common sense" was utter crap.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 2:38:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail nope That's okay....someone has to take the lower end of the stats. Otherwise there couldn't be a top end. You're a giver!

mnottertail -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/3/2013 2:40:09 PM)
those days are long gone, now I financially rape innumerate 'republicans' and there are so many to be had. Its a free market.

graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/7/2013 10:22:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The key point you don't seem to understand is that minimum wage is an entry level wage not a living wage. Why does it being "entry level" mean that it should be too low for a single adult to survive on? Why is it morally or fiscally reasonable for people to be forced to rely on welfare for five or ten or more years until they get enough in raises to earn a living wage? For the same reason a Pinto Station wagon isn't a 747. No one is forcing anyone to go on welfare. I know plenty of people in the last 40 years who, on minimum wage, with children, owned a house 20 years later, a car...paid for, working washers and dryers, etc. It can be done. It's easy to be wealthy (honest). Being broke is unbelievably hard work. Frankly, I can't imagine why so many prefer to be broke. Based on my own personal experience and others I've seen do it on less than I have....I'm more than clear, it's a fact. Sorry, I'm calling BS on this one. It is not possible to buy a house on a minimum wage job. I live in a fairly cheap area, where you can get a townhouse for just $100k, giving you a mortgage + property tax of around $900/month. A full-time worker making minimum wage makes around $1000 after payroll tax. How can you pay for a car and feed and clothe a family on the leftover $100 a month? Show me the budget that allows that.

graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/7/2013 10:26:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie More specifically, getting those who currently can only obtain a minimum wage job, educated enough to acquire said jobs. Sure, but jobs have to exist for them to aquire. We've been doing this whole "get people more educated so they can get better jobs" thing for decades, and the result is that you need a bachelor's degree to get a $12/hour job as a receptionist, and in white-collar work a graduate degree is required to do much more than entry-level work. Part of that is because people didn't get the right Bachelor's Degree. If 7M kids graduated with degrees in accounting, how many accounting jobs do you suppose there are for them to get? No one is owed a job. Just because you get a degree doesn't mean you are going to get the job you want. Just not flunking out of college doesn't even earn you a job. Just because you qualify for a job doesn't mean you get that job. Right, and if 7M kids graduated with degrees in computer programming, how many computer programming jobs do you suppose there are for them to get? Especially considering how many of those IT jobs are moving to India, China, etc. "More education" is not going to fix the fact that there are a finite and shrinking number of middle-class jobs in the United States.

graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/7/2013 10:37:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail what if you put in more? You did and you got more, right? Maybe a little. I used to work for a major retail chain. Worked both hard and smart, and was promoted 3 times in 5 years. I ended up an hourly shift manager, a position where, in the very expensive inner suburbs of DC, I made a whopping $12/hour. That was enough for me, as a single adult, to either 1) buy a cheapo car, or 2) get a studio in a bad neighborhood. I could not have afforded both, let alone to have kids or anything like that. Everyone that worked there that had kids (other than the manager & assistant manager) was on benefits, because they had to or their kids would starve. The company "kindly" provided info to employees about how to enroll in Medicaid and find out if you were eligible for the EIC, because they paid so little that their employees needed that information. ETA: Since I hadn't finished college (I was putting myself through community college one class a semester), that position was the top of the food chain, and raises were capped at 2% a year. To be assistant manager, which started at $15/hour, you needed a bachelor's degree.

MrRodgers -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/7/2013 11:43:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: papassion quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail what if you put in more? You did and you got more, right? Maybe a little. I used to work for a major retail chain. Worked both hard and smart, and was promoted 3 times in 5 years. I ended up an hourly shift manager, a position where, in the very expensive inner suburbs of DC, I made a whopping $12/hour. That was enough for me, as a single adult, to either 1) buy a cheapo car, or 2) get a studio in a bad neighborhood. I could not have afforded both, let alone to have kids or anything like that. Everyone that worked there that had kids (other than the manager & assistant manager) was on benefits, because they had to or their kids would starve. The company "kindly" provided info to employees about how to enroll in Medicaid and find out if you were eligible for the EIC, because they paid so little that their employees needed that information. ETA: Since I hadn't finished college (I was putting myself through community college one class a semester), that position was the top of the food chain, and raises were capped at 2% a year. To be assistant manager, which started at $15/hour, you needed a bachelor's degree. Wow...$15/hr ? That's pretty good money. I read about a job online that was a whole page of requirements, another whole page on experience required at the end of which...was a bachelors degree. Part time $9/hr.

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