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RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 6:45:11 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Privacy is not necessarily keeping secrets, and I'm astounded that people think so.

I think everyone needs a measure of personal privacy. I, for instance, sometimes close the bathroom door. I seriously doubt what I'm doing in there is a huge secret to Himself, and I don't see how closing the door damages our relationship in any way.

I really think you are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions without asking for clarity.

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RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 7:21:38 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

Transparency to me is calling for both partners to be vulnerable. Trust of each other will allow freedom to express without the fear of that vulnerablity being used against you.



This really says it for me almost. Transparency to me is a committement to be vulnerable and open with one partner or partners. It's more a concept of being a compass and pointing the relationship where they expect and want to go as much as a map of how they are going get there. I also think it more like trying to reach the point of infinity. Life is very fuild and full of change and as such one needs to continually make the effort to moving to be vulnerable and open to ones partner. There is alwaysmore steps to be taken towards more transparency with ones partner or partners. If one doesn't continually make the effort I find life's currents just take you away from transparency. In fact it takes effort just to maintain where one is at with being vulnerable and open with another. It's the nature of us and life where we see everything from our unique individuality. But is only from our sharing of that unique prespective where we take steps in maintaining or growing in transparency.

Many talk that trust is needed to have transparency. I actually think the opposite is true. Transparency is a step required in the building of trust but doesn't necessarily mean trust will be built. Because I don't see transparency as a finite point and more a process or direction we move in I believe this is why I see it that way. As we live our life we are allowing a certain level of openness and vulnerability to those around us and they with us. In moment we meet people who we are motivated by what we see and they see in us to be alittle more transparent with each other. This to me is the first step in building that trust. We go from strangers to acquientes, to friends and maybe more or less with each step of life. Based on what we learn of each other we determine what we will trust And not trust in another. Our level of transparency has achieved the trust we have and only through more transparency can our trust grow beyond where it is at.

Is privacy the opposite of transparency. I think so. But I must say. If one is private with everything and everyone. Can or will anyone trust them? In my view of trust you can't trust what you don't know. The interesting aspect to me is that everyone's level of transparency to generate trust is different. Some trust with far less transparency than others or appear so. I also find it interesting when asked why we trust a person it is because we relate to things we already know of the person and not what we don't know about them. In fact why we don't trust a person is sometimes about what we don't know about them as much as what we know. This last point is why I think that transparency doesn't automatically mean trust is and will be built. Sometimes the transparency of another teaches us not to trust the person.













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RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 7:52:37 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I agree that a poly dynamic should be structured differently when it comes to transparency. Everyone, poly or not, needs a certain degree of privacy and that should be respected.



I complete disagree with this statement. Privacy is not an option in my family and never will be.

Really? None? Not ever?

I couldn't imagine not ever having quiet time to Myself.




Having quiet time is not that same has needing it. Secondly.... Privacy is more than the physical isolation of a person. I can be completely private in a crowd when I choose. My thoughts and my feelings are not and never will be private from my girls or theirs with me. I am alone here as I type this since the girls and family have all left. But our thoughts and feelings are shared always. Maybe not in a give moment. But time is relative. Everything is up to being shared. This is not to say we share every thing the moment it happens. We just know that it isn't private or an option that we need for us over the course of time.


My girls are slaves. I own them nothing is theirs.... Privacy is not an option and I found incredible reward from them being completely open and vulnerable with me over the years. I give them that same thing in return. The rewards have been staggering for us.

I can't begin to relate what it has been like for others to understand and appreciate. Unless you been there you can't really get it. Even Danielle who just joined the family five months ago is just starting to maybe understand. She is still at the point of feeling the fear to be open and vulnerable. I would even say the disbelief of it as well. It will take time but I believe she will give it all. For she is already getting it all from us three.


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RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 8:04:41 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Privacy is not necessarily keeping secrets, and I'm astounded that people think so.



I think everyone needs a measure of personal privacy. I, for instance, sometimes close the bathroom door. I seriously doubt what I'm doing in there is a huge secret to Himself, and I don't see how closing the door damages our relationship in any way.

I really think you are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions without asking for clarity.



I think you are guilty of what you are accusing me of.

Just as note.... We have a door on the master bathroom door... It never closes for privacy. If we want... We can always see each other take a dump or whatever. I have had a bathroom off the master bedroom in my last three houses. In fact the first house I had never had a door and we never closed the door for privacy. But we have closed it for consideration. The only time that happens is when someone was sleeping and we didn't want to wake them. Ironically I never close the door even then. But the girls have and like I said not for a desire for them to have privacy.

You might think everyone does... But everyone is a lot of people. Absolutes are rarely true... And you one absolute is definitely not one of them.







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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 8:54:20 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Privacy is not necessarily keeping secrets, and I'm astounded that people think so.

I think everyone needs a measure of personal privacy. I, for instance, sometimes close the bathroom door. I seriously doubt what I'm doing in there is a huge secret to Himself, and I don't see how closing the door damages our relationship in any way.

I really think you are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions without asking for clarity.


Privacy and secrets may or may not mean the same thing. Right now I'm with Chloe planning a Christmas present for Steve. I know Steve and Chloe have been putting some surprises together for me. If I ask Steve should he just reveal to me what they are up to?!

What if you meet up with a friend and that friend tells you a secret. Is it okay to go home and tell your partners about that secret? I believe not. A secret is something given in trust. Its not yours to give and yet that would be seen as not being transparent enough? Chloe has told me things about her childhood that she doesn't want sharing. Its not mine to share but perhaps Steve already knows and hasn't told me because his morals are the same as mine. Just because we are partners, doesn't give us the right to reveal something that isn't ours to reveal.

I love my privacy but that's just the way I am. If I want to close a door and not be disturbed for a few hours, that's my prerogative. We are all different. If you are a person who never needs privacy then that's fine too.

Nobody would want to be inside my head. I have a hyperactive mind that never gives out. It drives me mad sometimes and for sure would drive my loved ones insane I often get asked, 'what are you thinking about' and I'm known for being very truthful about my thoughts, which are sometimes shocking! I do however, have thoughts I don't want to share, not because they are shocking or could damage the relationship but because they are personal only to me.

I don't want to be part of Steve and Chloes very intimate moments. Those moments belong to them and so long as I'm happy with that, alls good. Trust is paramount here and part of that trust is knowing you don't have to be told or included in everything.

Transparency obviously means different things to different people and works differently for different people but thank goodness we were not all made from the same mould.


< Message edited by MariaB -- 12/4/2013 8:59:05 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 11:28:56 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		there is a world of difference between privacy to use the loo, and privacy to see someone else behind your back without telling you. just the same as there is a world of difference between keeping innocent secrets that are for the other person's personal pleasure, rather than being secretive about where you've been, when normally you wouldn't be, because you've been fucking someone else.

the agreements I have had is that I know whom is fucking whom, so that I can make an educated choice about what I continue to do with the person i'm fucking. unfortunately said person has thought that actually I don't deserve the right to make those choices. when my ex and I were together we didn't need 'privacy' from each other. we each knew what the other was doing, and if we wanted time to ourselves we did so. we would both use each other's phones, had access to each other's email, bank accounts, everything, because we had nothing to hide from each other. however, the person that trusts you the most is the easiest one to lie to because they believe what you tell them. I believed his crap, but it was his secretive start of nature that made me instantly suspicious. we split for a while, but I stupidly took him back. I expected that things would be as they had been before, but they weren't. he was very possessive of everything his, and I certainly wasn't allowed to touch his phone. it was how I found out he was still cheating on me.

if I deem a person close enough to me that they have me, then I have nothing to hide. they can have knowledge of anything, or access to anything. most certainly though, if I were of the mind to want another person besides them them i'd have the decency, and enough respect for them to tell them what, and with whom I was doing. the way I see it is that the person close to me deserves to know, and have the choices, the third deserves to know I have a primary, but beyond that nothing more as they are just a fuck. if I were to say to my primary that I fuck other people, but it's none of your business then i'm treating them as nothing but a just a fuck too. therefore I am transparent.

needles

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RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 1:07:21 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		You said this:

quote:

My thoughts and my feelings are not and never will be private from my girls or theirs with me. . . . But our thoughts and feelings are shared always.


If you actually believe it, than you and I have no further basis for discussion on this topic.

Maria said this:

quote:

Transparency obviously means different things to different people and works differently for different people but thank goodness we were not all made from the same mould.


and I agree with her.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 1:29:01 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

You said this:

quote:

My thoughts and my feelings are not and never will be private from my girls or theirs with me. . . . But our thoughts and feelings are shared always.


If you actually believe it, than you and I have no further basis for discussion on this topic.

Maria said this:

quote:

Transparency obviously means different things to different people and works differently for different people but thank goodness we were not all made from the same mould.


and I agree with her.


Of course I believe it. It how it works in our dynamic.


And what Marie stated is another reason why your absolute is wrong.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Transparency - 12/4/2013 3:47:22 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Grins-transparency is rooted in trusting the other persons love




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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 4:07:29 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		FR

For the benefit of those who think my absolute might not be wrong, I will say this:

It's impossible for person A to tell person B everything they think and feel. There isn't enough time in the day for that, our minds are far too busy (not just Maria's).

Everybody filters. We filter for what we consider insignificant, and we filter for what we consider personal or private. Again, this is how humans operate.

Do I think people should tell their significant others what they think and feel? Of course they should, that would be the hallmark of good consistent communication. I don't think keeping secrets is a good idea, it almost always backfires.

But I see a huge difference between keeping secrets and filtering for privacy.

Maria said this:

quote:

I do however, have thoughts I don't want to share, not because they are shocking or could damage the relationship but because they are personal only to me.


I believe everyone has thoughts that are personal only to them.

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RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 6:03:49 AM   
Rasciallymisty


Posts: 5749
Joined: 4/16/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

FR

Do I think people should tell their significant others what they think and feel? Of course they should, that would be the hallmark of good consistent communication. I don't think keeping secrets is a good idea, it almost always backfires.

But I see a huge difference between keeping secrets and filtering for privacy.


After reading this thread for a while I agree with this. I do believe that some privacy is needed if its not something that will or can cause mayhem for the person you are involved with. Unfortunately some of the men in my past have called it their right to privacy when doing so. When explained this way I do agree with you Chatte. I guess I should have explained why I saw it as I did.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 6:47:32 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		To me the right to personal privacy and being dishonest by omission are worlds apart. So thanks for the clarity. Perhaps others were reading me that way as well.





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RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 7:59:05 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline 		People tend to call for transparency when they're feeling deceived, or suspicious or not safe. The antennae are up, red flags are popping,

I don't get how this is different from any other discussion that asks "Is honesty important for a d/s relationship".


gosh now let me think......

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RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 10:15:47 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I was thinking about this today (amongst other things!)

You can’t expect transparency as a return for your own transparency because transparency can’t be traded. If I were to require absolute transparency within my relationships, there’s an expectation. My expectations are my self-interests and my self interests could be incredibly daunting to a lover.

We all know that when a relationship lacks honesty there can be no real communication but if the relationship is good and if that relationship holds deep understanding and appreciation, then it will become open but just like a flower, it will though, only open when its ready and only when the soil it grows in is right. Its not something that can be demanded of or even suggested.

By demanding transparency there are no guarantees you're going to receive it. What that person may actually give you is a facade of what she believes you want.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 12/5/2013 10:16:43 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 10:24:39 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I agree. It's like demanding fidelity. People will give it or they won't. But you can't demand it. And I will go a bit further and say when it comes to transparency, you are far more likely to get it if you *don't* demand it.

That's certainly true of my own self. Not that many years ago I would never have dreamed I could have this level of transparency with another human being. But he didn't demand it, he made it safe for me to open up to him.

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RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 11:27:24 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Privacy is not necessarily keeping secrets, and I'm astounded that people think so.



I think everyone needs a measure of personal privacy. I, for instance, sometimes close the bathroom door. I seriously doubt what I'm doing in there is a huge secret to Himself, and I don't see how closing the door damages our relationship in any way.

I really think you are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions without asking for clarity.



I think you are guilty of what you are accusing me of.

Just as note.... We have a door on the master bathroom door... It never closes for privacy. If we want... We can always see each other take a dump or whatever. I have had a bathroom off the master bedroom in my last three houses. In fact the first house I had never had a door and we never closed the door for privacy. But we have closed it for consideration. The only time that happens is when someone was sleeping and we didn't want to wake them. Ironically I never close the door even then. But the girls have and like I said not for a desire for them to have privacy.

You might think everyone does... But everyone is a lot of people. Absolutes are rarely true... And you one absolute is definitely not one of them.






Not so much.... and the smell. But you rock on.

How leaving a door open creates transparency in a relationship I haven't quite figured out yet. To my mind transparency with regard to a relationship involves feelings and emotions.

BadOne



< Message edited by SailingBum -- 12/5/2013 11:32:09 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 4:29:17 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

It's impossible for person A to tell person B everything they think and feel. There isn't enough time in the day for that, our minds are far too busy (not just Maria's).

Everybody filters. We filter for what we consider insignificant, and we filter for what we consider personal or private. Again, this is how humans operate.


I thought this was what you meant, but thanks for clarifying.

I agree.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Transparency - 12/5/2013 5:19:00 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

FR

For the benefit of those who think my absolute might not be wrong, I will say this:

It's impossible for person A to tell person B everything they think and feel. There isn't enough time in the day for that, our minds are far too busy (not just Maria's).

Everybody filters. We filter for what we consider insignificant, and we filter for what we consider personal or private. Again, this is how humans operate.



Yup. Everybody filters... For sake of ease of communication sometimes and/or sometimes their is a motivation to be private. However. Just because we filter doesn't mean we are being private. It's a question motivation. In my house, a desire to be private is not a option. Sometimes, My girls may ask for time to sort their thoughts to express them clearly constructively.

Again filtering doesnt necessarily mean privacy or seeking to be private!


quote:


Do I think people should tell their significant others what they think and feel? Of course they should, that would be the hallmark of good consistent communication. I don't think keeping secrets is a good idea, it almost always backfires.

But I see a huge difference between keeping secrets and filtering for privacy.

Maria said this:

quote:

I do however, have thoughts I don't want to share, not because they are shocking or could damage the relationship but because they are personal only to me.


I believe everyone has thoughts that are personal only to them.


Actually their is not a lot of difference between privacy and secrecy. In fact secrecy is in a word a definition to privacy. But privacy has another more common definition. The state of being Private.

When you actually look at the four most common definitions of 'private'

1 belonging to some particular person: private property.
2 pertaining to or affecting a particular person or a small group of persons; individual; personal: for your private satisfaction.
3 confined to or intended only for the persons immediately concerned; confidential: a private meeting.
4 personal and not publicly expressed: one's private feelings.

This is the rub. My girls are slaves to me. As slaves nothing for them is private in relation to me. It's what they signed up for it is what I signed up for.

They can a do filter for ease of communicate a give situation, issue, event or thoughts and feelings. I might be good with that.. Or I can ask question after question until I am content with the thoughts they have shared. They don't have privacy. They are obligated to give all that I want from them.

On the flip side. I committed to them to share my thoughts and feelings as well. It's a choice I made a long time ago. It been my experience that the more my slaves appreciate and know my thoughts and feelings the more committed and effective they are as slaves to me.

Lastly... Their is a significant difference between the desire to keep things private and have privacy from ones partner and a partners choice on what they seek to know of their partner and what they don't want to know.

In our dynamic we as individual do not seek to have things private or privacy. We let the choice fall in the hands of our partners to what they want to know. Every question is answered authentically and fully to best of our abilities. No question is off limits.

Transparency is not just the act of sharing but the willingness to share and make ones partners aware that we have something to share.

We have no need of privacy. But will do have a desire for transparency.





< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 12/5/2013 5:22:03 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Transparency - 12/14/2013 6:09:17 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
What is transparency?

My honest opinion? It's a BDSM buzzword that has little or no meaning due to the way it's used... much like "honor", "trust", "respect", etc.

When did we need to make up buzzwords for the idea that you should be honest and authentic?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Transparency - 12/14/2013 6:15:41 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
What is transparency?

My honest opinion? It's a BDSM buzzword that has little or no meaning due to the way it's used... much like "honor", "trust", "respect", etc.

When did we need to make up buzzwords for the idea that you should be honest and authentic?



When people stopped being honest and authentic as part of their daily interactions with others.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 40
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