RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (Full Version)

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MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 2:22:02 PM)

BINGO.
How about people who don't agree with extending the life of brain-dead coma patients. That's a MUCH higher expense for insurance companies to pay than an abortion.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Where do I sign up to make sure none of my tax dollars are used to fund illegal wars, drones strikes on civilians, subsidies to huge corporations, and a list of others?
How is it possible that a group of religious fundMENTALists can get their way on this?






graceadieu -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 3:15:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
While they are still crowing about how Obummercare is "settled law" and can't be struck down


No one has said that it can't be struck down just because it's a law. What the left has been saying is that - just like other laws - it can't be struck down by means other than either 1) voting to repeal it, or 2) the Supreme Court ruling against it. Republicans have tried both, over and over, and failed every time.

quote:

(like oh.... slavery, prohibition, Japanese Relocation, or any of the hundreds of "settled law" cases repealed or overturned on a state level every decade)


Ah. Nevermind. That you seriously compared a law that helps uninsured people buy insurance to slavery makes it clear that a rational discussion with you is impossible. So I'm not even going to bother with the rest.




graceadieu -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 3:18:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You know damned well it's not about a womans body.
It's about the life of a baby (a life which happens to be a temporary inconvenience....)


Ah, I see. You don't understand that other people have a different opinion than you. Well, they do. I would recommend doing some reading from sources that are not pro-life. You may, like me, have a change of heart.

(Edited to be more polite.)




graceadieu -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 3:31:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

If the fetus cannot survive outside the womb its not a "life"


My youngest child was born at 23 weeks.
I would love to see a law forbidding abortion (except to save the life of the woman) from 23 weeks on.....


Late-term abortions - which are incredibly hard to get since only 2 or 3 doctors in the United States perform them - are only performed for serious medical reasons. Usually when the fetus is already dead, cannot survive being born, or the mother is in serious danger. These are women who don't want an abortion, who want to have a child, but are forced into a terrible, tragic situation.

I read one, pretty typical, case of a woman who was maybe 5 months or so into her very wanted pregnancy when she found out she had cancer. She had a choice: have an abortion and get immediate treatment and live, or wait and have the baby and probably die. She was married and had other kids to take care of. She had the abortion, and lived. Honest question: do you think she made the right choice?




Icarys -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 4:19:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

If the fetus cannot survive outside the womb its not a "life"


My youngest child was born at 23 weeks.
I would love to see a law forbidding abortion (except to save the life of the woman) from 23 weeks on.....

mine was born at 22 weeks...dead....


Your what? Your fetus was born dead?




Lucylastic -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 4:34:49 PM)

yes




PeonForHer -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 4:39:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I agree completely.
It's just that murder is everyone's business.


Truckin, which war were you drafted into, again? I'm sorry if you've already replied to this question from Ron, but I can't seem to find your answer. There was quite a long lull between Ron asking it and your posting anything else on this thread, you see.




Icarys -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 5:06:36 PM)

My mom had 4 fetuses that were born. All happily living productive lives. I'm even told that happens to most fetuses if their process isn't interfered with.




Lucylastic -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 5:15:57 PM)

I had seven. ...No drugs or alcohol.or interference..... three living productive lives, 1 stillborn, 2 miscarriages and an ectopic.

I hope you dont mind if I am one of the .... many who didnt manage perfection!




Icarys -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 5:49:09 PM)

Well at least you didn't murder any viable fetuses. You did alright.




tazzygirl -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 9:06:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I had seven. ...No drugs or alcohol.or interference..... three living productive lives, 1 stillborn, 2 miscarriages and an ectopic.

I hope you dont mind if I am one of the .... many who didnt manage perfection!


Its ok, Lucy, his mom didnt manage it either.




SadistDave -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 9:13:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Personally, I think this is funny as hell!

Here is an interesting situation. The American public is forced by the libs to either purchase insurance they don't want or need or pay a tax. While they are still crowing about how Obummercare is "settled law" and can't be struck down (like oh.... slavery, prohibition, Japanese Relocation, or any of the hundreds of "settled law" cases repealed or overturned on a state level every decade) the rank-and-file libs are faced with a case of government forcing people to purchase insurance they don't need or want. Now the poor little buckaroos want to see a law forcing people to buy insurance they don't want or need to be struck down.

Irony aside... if this does go as far as SCOTUS and is successfully struck down, it could create a precident that could seriously threaten the Unaffordable Care Act that the libs are so enamored with. The legal maneuvering that would strike down the Michigan law could very likely create a roadmap for forcing SCOTUS to declare Obummercare unconstitutional. Quite a pickel the libs have gotten themselves into, isn't it?

-SD-


Insurance for this is not banned. It can be a rider.

Now, since the ACA does not make abortion insurance mandatory, just how would this strike down that law?


For starters, you have to realize that Obamacare has already set a legal precident that would affect a SCOTUS ruling in the Michigan case.

The Unaffordable Care Acts Constitutionality was decided, among other things, on governments ability to force people to buy insurance against their will. According to SCOTUS, government CAN force people to purchase goods and services like insurance against their will. So, if this goes to SCOTUS and it is deemed unconstitutional that Michigan can mandate these riders, it would be a complete reversal of the Obummercare ruling. Once that happens then the same argument can be applied against Obummercare. Since the UCA is predicated on the notion that people must have riders attached to their insurance whether they want/need them or not, a SCOTUS ruling against the Michigan law would mean an argument can then be made against the UCA forcing people to purchase riders they do not want or need.

-SD-




graceadieu -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 9:57:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Well at least you didn't murder any viable fetuses. You did alright.


If she had an ectopic pregnancy, she's probably had an abortion. Trying to bring an ectopic pregnancy to term is an almost guaranteed death sentence for the mother, unless she miscarries.




Icarys -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 10:38:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Well at least you didn't murder any viable fetuses. You did alright.


If she had an ectopic pregnancy, she's probably had an abortion. Trying to bring an ectopic pregnancy to term is an almost guaranteed death sentence for the mother, unless she miscarries.


Ya don't say? [:D]




tazzygirl -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 10:46:00 PM)

quote:

The Unaffordable Care Acts Constitutionality was decided, among other things, on governments ability to force people to buy insurance against their will. According to SCOTUS, government CAN force people to purchase goods and services like insurance against their will. So, if this goes to SCOTUS and it is deemed unconstitutional that Michigan can mandate these riders, it would be a complete reversal of the Obummercare ruling. Once that happens then the same argument can be applied against Obummercare. Since the UCA is predicated on the notion that people must have riders attached to their insurance whether they want/need them or not, a SCOTUS ruling against the Michigan law would mean an argument can then be made against the UCA forcing people to purchase riders they do not want or need.


Michigan isnt mandating a rider. Insurance companies do not have to offer it.




EdBowie -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/14/2013 11:18:53 PM)

Hmmm... hadn't thought about it that way.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I honestly don't know that much about HIPAA, my understanding was that it was a crime for anyone in the health care industries to just hand over your medical records to someone you don't want to have them.


60% of the Fortune 500 companies with over 1000 employees have self-funded insurance.

You do the math.





BecomingV -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/15/2013 12:06:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Unfortunately in this case it's just not that simple. With the ability to make life comes responsibilities . These aren't designer handbags that you toss because they've lost their flare.


Icarys - In another post, you call it murder.

If you refer back to my post on this thread (#22), I talk about my own spiritual connection to my "fetuses" from the moment of conception. To me, the debate about the beginning of life is academic... because to me, it was instantly apparent.

So, I do think that abortion is killing, but not murder. Think along the lines of soldiers who kill (but it's not called murder). Same with police. In American society, we have different names for causing the end of a life. Justified, righteous, collateral - these words come to mind. Think, death penalty, war and criminal justice. It's just not as simple as you'd like it to be.

About being responsible when the ability to make a life is present... really? What about those of us whom used three forms of birth control simultaneously and still got pregnant!!! By 22 yrs of age, I'd had 7 pregnancies (8 fetuses as the last one was twins). Luckily, I was able to get a hysterectomy. My Dad was the youngest of 22 - yes, we were a Catholic family. I feared I was headed on the same path.

Who knows? Perhaps a few more failed attempts at birth control, and I'd be writing about the abortion that I would have had.

Either way, the government needs to stay out of my body.

I am against the draft for the same reason, and believe that if it does come up again, it should be for both women and men.

The posts you've contributed seem so very superficial for what some take as a serious topic.




Icarys -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/15/2013 12:34:37 AM)

It's a little hard to reply on a phone... there are a few things I'd like to address but I'll just say this....about the only killing I 'condone' is that of someone who attacks you or family, that attacks the US directly or in this case maykill the mother.

As for trivializing... just trivializing the trivialize-rs.




BecomingV -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/15/2013 12:51:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
....about the only killing I 'condone' is that of someone who attacks you or family, that attacks the US directly or in this case maykill the mother.


Okay, can you see that all "kills" are not instantaneous or even quick kills? I'm talking about what can kill a mother. There are unforeseen maternal deaths - pregnancy is always a life-threatening risk. Always.

Here's a snippet from a recent news article: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/why-are-so-many-u-s-women-dying-during-childbirth/article_dd916b4b-38f0-5bae-ba42-ddee636e4cf4.html

"The most recent figures available show the rate hovers around 15 deaths per 100,000 births — placing the U.S. near the bottom among developed nations.

The rate of severe complications during and after delivery have also doubled in the last decade, according to a 2012 federal study. Near-misses, where a woman nearly dies, increased by 27 percent.

That means each year in the U.S., about 700 women die of pregnancy-related complications and 52,000 experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. An additional 34,000 barely avoid death."


Amnesty International's Maternal Mortality/Deadly Delivery campaign - Florida Senators had no idea that the U.S sat so low on the international rating. This is important information to know if you really care about women's lives.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/campaigns/demand-dignity/maternal-health-is-a-human-right/maternal-health-in-the-us

A snippet from ^^^

"The USA spends more than any other country on health care, and more on maternal health than any other type of hospital care. Despite this, women in the USA have a higher risk of dying of pregnancy-related complications than those in 49 other countries, including Kuwait, Bulgaria, and South Korea.
African-American women are nearly four times more likely to die of pregnancy-related complications than white women. These rates and disparities have not improved in more than 20 years.
Maternal deaths are only the tip of the iceberg. During 2004 and 2005, more than 68,000 women nearly died in childbirth in the USA. Each year, 1.7 million women suffer a complication that has an adverse effect on their health.
This is not just a public health emergency - it is a human rights crisis."


Considering the facts, why would anyone want to keep a pregnancy, let alone one that originated in a rape? There's a reason why abortion has always existed and always will. Many reasons.




Lucylastic -> RE: Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law (12/15/2013 5:06:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

It's a little hard to reply on a phone... there are a few things I'd like to address but I'll just say this....about the only killing I 'condone' is that of someone who attacks you or family, that attacks the US directly or in this case maykill the mother.

As for trivializing... just trivializing the trivialize-rs.

You dont have near enough power to do anything like that.


My ectopic burst in my fallopian tube, at four inches,I got peritonitis
I had had my tubes tied surgically one year and three days previous to it errupting.





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