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ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Thanks for once again lying your ass off about what I've posted.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Then I'll go back to my original assessment that your postings here are just xenophobic glee that American kids are dying. You've proven that beyond any shadow of a doubt by repeatedly refusing to engage in grown up discourse about a solution, and you've contributed nothing but shadenfreude and snark.

And what do you call 'grown up' discourse Ed?
Anything and everything except giving up your guns - which we consider the basic root of the problem.
Peon said that. You disagree. Fair comment.
But what have you contributed except personal insult?
Nothing that I could see.

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So, the way to fix public schools so they don't get shot up in a generation is to run them like private schools, well funded and free to discipline the children and free to teach them and free to fire bad teachers.

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has anyone ever considerd maybe the problem is in the school system?

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Thanks for once again lying your ass off about what I've posted.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Then I'll go back to my original assessment that your postings here are just xenophobic glee that American kids are dying. You've proven that beyond any shadow of a doubt by repeatedly refusing to engage in grown up discourse about a solution, and you've contributed nothing but shadenfreude and snark.

And what do you call 'grown up' discourse Ed?
Anything and everything except giving up your guns - which we consider the basic root of the problem.
Peon said that. You disagree. Fair comment.
But what have you contributed except personal insult?
Nothing that I could see.

I see what you posted. I see what Peon posted.
What I don't see is Peon saying he's of the xenophobic type and glad that American kids are dying.
I see that accusation coming from you though - and directly at Peon.

Care to comment on your assertions and accusations against Peon?

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
One more time, slowly. You are lying about what I posted and about my position on the topic, period. After that, your pompous challenges and selective vision are simply a sad attempt to derail any productive discussion about possible real world solutions.

When you choose to quit lying, and to honestly present my position, we'll talk.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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Now the Brits are telling us how to run our country, in the area of guns at least. Evidently they either have failed to remember the revolution or they are stuck in the "our way is a hell of a lot better than anyone else's" mentality.

Ohhhh gawd. It's back to the War of Independence again. JLF, that's beyond pathetic, and I think you know it. Heads up: It's centuries past the time when it was plausible to complain about a tiny island the other side of the Atlantic bullying the USA. You bully yourselves plenty well enough for any other nation to want to bother. For an example: re-read the title of this thread.

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Sociologists have found that school shooting rampages are usually committed by perpetrators who feel a sense of "aggrieved entitlement". What this essentially means is that non-dominant members of a dominant group, are the most likely culprits in rampage murder-suicide school shootings. They may be bullied or teased and have their masculinity threatened, and as white males who "should be" at the top of the high school pecking order, this heightens their sense of being mistreated.

School shooters are not typically successful, popular "alpha males", but rather they are ostracized from their position at the top of the pecking order through bullying, and eventually they then lash out against this perceived injustice. While most school shootings are not expressed consciously in these terms, the normative school shooter appears to be a white boy (or boys) in a relatively homogenous, relatively affluent suburb or small town, who exhibits some sense of aggrieved entitlement, displays some degree of racial or religious intolerance and has relatively easy access to weapons. Although the FBI says there is no profile of a school shooter, their own data suggests that many shooters fit the profile of a student suffering from a sense of "aggrieved entitlement".
Source

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The new school shooting paradigm

Prior to 1982, many school shootings were in urban school districts and involved a single black male shooting another student for a specific reason. In most of these cases the target was chosen specifically to avenge a grievance and no additional bystanders were shot. Schools responded to the number of inner-city school shootings by implementing additional security measures such as adding metal detectors and on site security guards.

Since 1982, almost all school shootings have been perpetrated by white males in suburban and rural school districts with multiple seemingly random or unspecific targets and mass killing involved. Yet, because school administrators and policy makers can't wrap their collective heads around the idea that school shootings are now primarily a small town and suburban white boy problem, they have been slow to respond with precautions because the shootings occur again and again in wholesome "safe" towns where this kind of thing isn't supposed to happen. But guess what? Those "safe" relatively homogenous communities are actually the places where this sort of thing happens over and over again. These communities are in fact, the most likley places for a school killing spree to unfold.

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ORIGINAL: stef
Ballistic and optometric facts are not opinions. You were, and are still, lying.

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ORIGINAL: stef
No, the fact that you are lying makes it a lie.

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ORIGINAL: stef

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As for Ed.. he made the direct personal acusation that Peon was a xenophobic person that was rubbing his hands in glee that American kids are dying.
I don't see that anywhere in here.

Of course not.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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to ignore the access of guns as being a major issue, along with the other "issues" you might as well piss up some rope, in a hurricane.
Sad

What makes "access of guns" a major issue now when it was not twenty or thirty years ago? I actually could buy a semi-automatic gun easier in the sixties than I can now. So, I guess I don't understand how access has increased over the years and now has to be decreased when in fact just the opposite is true, access has decreased and probably should increase. If someone had a semi-automatic pistol in the theater that was shot up then likely many less people would have died that night.

But, I'm really not making the argument for more guns since guns are not the problem or the answer either way. Society is sick. The answer is not to remove guns but to correct Society.

A key pillar of Society is the family and a key pillar of the family is Parenting. Parenting skills and attitudes are bad so teach kids good parenting and we will have good parenting in a generation again. Parenting even by good parents is bad because both parents work to buy a bigger house and two cars or even put food on the table so bring back good paying jobs or build less expensive housing and use our cheaper energy resources to bring back good manufacturing jobs and grow cheaper food so only one parent need work (again) and better the education system so the parents who do work can pull down a better job and educate our kids that two cars in every garage is nice but that it requires both parents to work and teach them how bad that can be to the child.

Another key pillar of Society is the schools. Years ago we had good parenting and safe schools without "resource officers" (translation: People with guns and badges) and we had discipline in the schools. Allow by law discipline and corporal discipline to be used in schools again because kids react positively to discipline and negatively to a lack of control over them.

Another key pillar of Society is how we generally live. Live simply. Focus on what is truly important, our families, our children and happiness and none of which depend on living large. Case in point, the Kardashians, a train wreck representing living large in a fantasy that self-destructs almost quarterly like clockwork, just as our society does now.

Arturas

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Actually, since you failed to notice, I said it was one of two things, either you forgot about the revolution, or you are practicing that well noted Brit tactic of believing that the way you do it in the UK is the way everyone should do things.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Of course your myopic ability to only grasp one of the two things I stated is rather normal from what I have seen.

This holier than thou crap preached to the rest of the world by Brits is getting rather old. Especially since you dont seem to do a fucking bit of research on what the fuck you are talking about.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
So, how about I explain a few facts to you.

1) 68 percent of school shooters acquired the weapon from their own home or from a relative, meaning the firearms were not secured very well to allow a teenager access to them.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
2) 75 percent of school shooters felt bullied, persecuted or threatened by others.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
3) 90 percent of school shootings over more than a decade have been linked to a widely prescribed type of antidepressant called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs.

Now I am sure that none of those things matter much to you and your "ban guns" mentality, but it makes a point to some of the rest of us, who want to know what has changed that students are driven to such actions.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
To address point one, school shootings rarely occur in states that require trigger locks or some other strict gun storage laws.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
However, since you brits know everything, and the way everything should be, how about reading this. 

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
If you dont want to, try the following:

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Sociologists have found that school shooting rampages are usually committed by perpetrators who feel a sense of "aggrieved entitlement". <snip>

And then there is this little tidbit, that everyone and their pet dog seems to be ignoring.

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The new school shooting paradigm <snip>

Seems to me that clearly something has changed, perhaps that is one of the issues we should be looking at, not just the fucking guns. I mean if there is something wrong shouldn't all aspects of the problem be looked at, not just the fucking tool that was used?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
In other words people, quite looking at the fucking tree and look at the fucking forest.

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ORIGINAL: feedomdwarf1

Our schools have opted for in-school random searches................This is also true of most public places - malls, libraries, parks, municipal buildings etc.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: feedomdwarf1

Our schools have opted for in-school random searches................This is also true of most public places - malls, libraries, parks, municipal buildings etc.

So now in addition to suggesting that we do away with our 2nd amendment we should do away with the 4th amendment too. Do ya have to have yer papers in order along with those random searches ?

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: feedomdwarf1

Our schools have opted for in-school random searches................This is also true of most public places - malls, libraries, parks, municipal buildings etc.

So now in addition to suggesting that we do away with our 2nd amendment we should do away with the 4th amendment too. Do ya have to have yer papers in order along with those random searches ?

Nope. Not at all.
They aren't trying to identify who you are, just that you aren't carrying stuff that isn't allowed and could potentially harm other innocent people.
And in most cases, that's a quick swipe with a metal-detecting wand and no more.

The US is so wrapped up in laws that it can't even enact measures to ensure the safety of its people.
It's that wild-west "gotta do it myself with guns" and shit that keeps you trapped in that guilded cage of self-riteousness.
In a lot of cases, the US can't even put a law in place unless it has an automatic expiry date built-in!

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

I guess the biggest challenge is how to keep guns away from the bad guys in the US. That needs one hell of a solution!

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
...Now, tell us, how if someone really wants to kill fellow students, just how restrictions on gun ownership is going to stop them?

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ORIGINAL: Wendel27
For the record it is not illegal to physically touch a child in the U.K. as a parent. Lawful chastisement can include common assault [essentially you can smack your child if it won't leave extensive bruising]. The same defence doesn't extend to other guardians such as teachers.