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ORIGINAL: graceadieu

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ORIGINAL: MariaB
It was migrants that built your country a mere 500 years ago.

Hell, it was immigrants that built the railroads 150 years ago, allowing our country to go from the Atlantic to the Pacific. It was immigrants that got us to the Moon 50 years ago. Immigrants have played an important role throughout our nation's history.

And as Americans, we don't forget where our ancestors came from (even the great-grandchildren of those Irish immigrants still think of themselves as a little bit Irish), but we also know we're part of a larger whole. I'm sure in a few generations, our grandchildren will be wondering what on earth we were so worried about.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

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ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS

That's funny, here in the "predominantly white" state of Maine at least in local schools they are now teaching foreign languages in first grade, which I think is BS because kids are struggling at that age just to learn to read and write English with proper grammar. Let them get the fundamentals of their own language down pat before bringing in a second. At least wait until 4th. Incidentally, I took French in HS and have NEVER ONCE NEEDED IT, even though there are a few pockets of French Canadian communities here in Maine.
I learned a little Chinese Cantonese on My own and have actually used that quite a bit.

First graders are like sponges and this is absolutely the best time to teach them to be bilingual.

When I started first grade in France I spoke no French, not because my household didn't speak French but because they wanted me to be fluent in English. That didn't hold me back. At that age I just absorbed and got on with the new language. A few months down the line I could speak as much French as my classmates and I could speak as much English as the average English kid my age. If we want our kids to be true linguists, bring them up with one language until they start school and then immerse them in another language in that school.

I didn't start learning Italian until I was in senior school and even then it was an after school class. I struggled and my Italian is pretty poor (even with my recent classes) which is a great shame as we live on the border of Italy and spend a lot of time their.

Teaching kids languages at a later age is a lot of hard work and most of those kids will drop out of language class because they find it too much of a struggle.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: graceadieu

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I agree. Culturally, hispanics generally and Mexicans specifically should be good Rs.

I've seen polls that show that Hispanics/Latinos aren't that conservative on economic issues. But I think that the Republicans could have a good chance with them on the "family values" stuff, if they acted more welcoming and got serious about some immigration reform other than fortifying the border.

I think you are right about this. I think they also would have a good chance with blacks on a lot of the same things. When Obama was elected the first time a lot of people in California thought this was a good chance to get the marriage bill passed because so many democrats voted in that election. What they didn't count on was that so many of the left were in agreement with the right on gay marriage and it was voted down. I think this is the reason so many democrats are so quick to try and claim the repubs are racist. They don't want to take the chance that someone will decide to switch sides and what better way to keep them hating the right than to lie and say the right is all racist.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy




My problem is the individuals who do not want to learn English and expect to be understood in a predominately English speaking country.

----------------

I've never met anyone like this despite 12 years working as an immigration lawyer and studying and learning Russian and working with many in the Russian immigrant community.

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

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ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Don't try to put this back on me, you got caught making something up, either admit that I never said that, or keep getting called on it.
(Or run away, as is most likely).

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

How is your little "reading for understanding" project going?

<snort>

Oh gosh... now I am very confused.

Perhaps you could point out what it is I've "made up"?

You see, my "Apache" comment - which appears to have been successfully read for understanding by at least a couple of people on this thread, appears to have flown over your head.

The comment was in response to your saying..

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The topic here has been about those unwilling or unable to learn the language in their new country,

I really don't think you made the same point on the first page, it rather seems you made a very general post about the world being built on people who speak different languages, which isn't the same thing.

Now, if I have "made something up", please do point it out, and I'll happily apologise. If you feel as if I've misunderstood your position, perhaps you could do a better job of explaining it?

But I would ask you to reflect on your "reading for understanding sig line" in the context of your interaction with me.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

JLF, agreed.
But, we really don't need immigration anymore.
All that "here for a better life" stuff is crap, we don't owe any foreign national a better life!
In the early 1900's we had millions of factory jobs that needed to be filled, now we don't.
You have to laugh when people say; "but who will pick your lettuce and tomatoes?"
I mean how many fuckin vegetable pickers do we need 30,000 40,000? Not 20 million!
And they're hurting our working people, driving down wages and causing more unemployment.
Between that and all those rotten "free-trade" deals that the American People never asked for imho we are very close to entering a *Depression.*
We have adults working for $10 an hour for cripe sakes in 2013 in the U.S.A.!
When someone who can barely speak English asks me for directions I just make believe I'm German and don't speak English; "Wie geht es innen! Essen zee meinen dicken! Heisen heesen crappen zee pantelones?"

Get a grip!

It was migrants that built your country a mere 500 years ago.

This thread was started by someone who fears immigrants foreignizing America and they are ill educated fears. Around 150 years ago you were all terrified the Irish were going to take over, it didn't happen!!

Surely American culture is far more dynamic than some of the negative racists we see on forums like this? What's with all this negativism think? Is it the tabloids you read? The people you mix with?

Funny thing is, we see this same ignorance throughout the western world but the bottom line is, most of us enjoy being a little cosmopolitan.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Just back from Las Vegas. One of the best things about it is how you see people there from all over the world: Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Canadians, and Latin and South Americans. It is very important for me to remember that English is but one language of many, and it is also important for me to remember how I need to meet and communicate with others from other countries.

I love other languages and cultures. The more, the better.

-----

The Godfather II was on AMC. I caught the part where the Vito as a child entered the the USA on a boat passing the Statue of Liberty with many other immigrants. It's just a great moment in film.

Then there was the scene with the senator from Nevada telling Michael he was not welcome in Nevada because he hated his "people" with their "slicked back" hair. The senator did not consider him a "real American."

-----

On the flip side of what you say, I meet with immigrants who see US citizens who don't value and appreciate the chance to receive an education and the opportunities that that the USA presents.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ha! I wonder if that "Nevada Senator's" last name was "Reid?"

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ha! I wonder if that "Nevada Senator's" last name was "Reid?"

Wouldn't know, haven't watched any of the Godfathers since the 70's

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

Its interesting that most English people can understand someone speaking English with a foreign accent, even when spoken badly. I can't think of any state in America where I don't understand their accent but I know that many Americans don't understand some of the English accents. An American friend, who after listening to a friend of mine speaking with a highland accent, told me she didn't understand a word he said. I could of understood if the guy had been a drunk Glaswegian but his accent sounded very clear.

The French find it very difficult to understand foreign people, unless they speak good French. Foreigners think they are just being awkward but truth is, they don't have an ear for any words that sound slightly different than they should.

I've never really thought about it before but perhaps Americans don't have an ear for the English language when its spoken in a foreign accent.

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In all seriousness, the world was built on people who didn't speak each other's language, learning how to do business together.
Story has it that when the Emperor of China banned learning English in the cities, the merchants of south China amassed fortunes using 'pidgin' (business) English to trade.
So it doesn't bother me as a customer to find a way to communicate to get what I want, no matter what communications barriers that particular clerk may be presenting (to include attitude, poor verbal skills from a native speaker, and so forth).
It is part of the great shopping adventure.
On the other hand, when it comes to 911 operators, air traffic controllers, and so forth, I fully expect there to be a standardized language that works best for the largest number of people.
And don't get me started on call center support 'English'.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


Thank you for supporting my contention that when people refuse to learn the dominant language their intent is to change it to theirs.
In his defense when he came along Apache was an insignificant language.

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ORIGINAL: EdBowie

That hasn't been my experience at all. And I've gotten traffic directions from Cockneys, lecture notes from Nigerians, and customer service from Indians.

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ORIGINAL: EdBowie

My position was already spelled out, and it was exactly the opposite of 'learn the native language when you come here'. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4608126

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In all seriousness, the world was built on people who didn't speak each other's language, learning how to do business together.
Story has it that when the Emperor of China banned learning English in the cities, the merchants of south China amassed fortunes using 'pidgin' (business) English to trade.
So it doesn't bother me as a customer to find a way to communicate to get what I want, no matter what communications barriers that particular clerk may be presenting (to include attitude, poor verbal skills from a native speaker, and so forth).
It is part of the great shopping adventure.
On the other hand, when it comes to 911 operators, air traffic controllers, and so forth, I fully expect there to be a standardized language that works best for the largest number of people.
And don't get me started on call center support 'English'.

It's a sad internet debate game to accuse people speaking out against racism of being racists, and speaking out against intolerance of being intolerant, and that's all the 'Apache' comment was... a trolling insinuation that I was the one being intolerant of others, posted well after I had made it abundantly clear that was not where I stood on the matter.

The continuation of that smear through the blatant lie of 'your position is that English was the official language', whether asserted from one posting account or from 20 is simply part of the prevalent game from the multifarious posters using this website as a game of obstructing as much tolerant discourse as they can.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


Thank you for supporting my contention that when people refuse to learn the dominant language their intent is to change it to theirs.
In his defense when he came along Apache was an insignificant language.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: EdBowie

That hasn't been my experience at all. And I've gotten traffic directions from Cockneys, lecture notes from Nigerians, and customer service from Indians.

That's very true, Ed. I've noticed that when a British man - such as myself - says 'I don't like to hear of American children being shot' you correctly translate that into US English as 'I'm deeply loving that American children get shot - why can't all Americans get shot?'.