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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/5/2014 11:31:10 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I'm afraid to even ask what your news sources are.



Broad, varied, and absolutely none of them taken as definitive.

Before you go quoting the story at us, Cloudboy, you need to address the point of objection, rather than ignoring it. Your foundation is an appeal to authority. That authority is in question. What do you say to the charge that the New York Times lacks the credibility to be definitive?

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/5/2014 12:07:07 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Just another thing Cloudboy, though you may not find it in the NYT.

What is sinking President Obama is his own incompetence, and the ignorance of governmental realities that he is now using as an excuse.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/5/2014 12:44:04 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
One has it that the video, which was posted on YouTube, inspired spontaneous street protests that got out of hand. This version, based on early intelligence reports.[/size]


Right there: outright lie and reveals anything else that follows and reveals it to be a nuanced SHAM.

There were no intelligence reports that said it was a spontaneous riot.
I defy you to find ANY intelligence reports that say that. Look through the declassified materials. Look to the Libyan papers reports on events. Look to the congressional hearings. It was the state department that edited out the CIA's al-qaeda wording. 14 revisions it took them to wear down Petraeus - who was still hoping to hold down his job after the scandal.

The Libyan president knew it was terrorism - his words - and said so less than 24 hours after the fact. an act of terror.

At the time of the action - libyans had an 86% approval of the united states - due to the assistance in tearing down khadafy. Almost alone of all the places in the middle east - this place did NOT riot. I defy you to find any evidence of widespread protests anywhere in libya prior to the attack.

This report "conveniently" ignores the attacks against the British Embassy, the red cross - and every other western presence over the preceding weeks. I suppose those were "spontaneous riots" too. Funny. I don't find any evidence of that.

What there is evidence of - and we found proof of that in Zawahari's papers, is the islamacists driving westerners out of libya. Funny how the time didn't bother to excerpt any of the papers recovered in Mali, or in Egypt.

The idea that the campaign to drive westerners out of benghazi was anything other than a concerted, coordinated plan is idiotic, second grade thinking.

So sure, if you don't quote any "early intelligence briefings"; if you don't quote the libyan president, if you don't quote the NSA intercepts that said it was an attack on the american embassy; if you don't quote the excerpts between the commanders coordinating the attack, if you don't quote zawahari's papers, or the papers captured in mali - why then sure its a definitive report.

But the rest of us know that this is just another example of the times carrying the water for democrats.

One final bit of scorn:
Do you really think a politician as seasoned as clinton would ever deliver those lines that it was a spontaneous attack?

She knew it there would be an inquest, and that those lines were false. So she was smart enough to go have a loyal redshirt deliver the news.

Its not the criminal unpreparedness.
Its not the fact of the attack.
Its the fact they left these men to die to bolster their election chances.
Its the fact that they blatantly lied to cover it up.
Its the fact that their incompetence and lies materially hurt us - by destroying the CIA safe house, losing the data on surface to air missiles, and rolling up the entire libyan informer network.

How dare you.







< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/5/2014 12:46:01 PM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/5/2014 1:22:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You have mail, Phydeaux

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/6/2014 12:55:31 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Crickets from the right wing. Instead of discussing what's in the NYT report and the varacity of its findings, the right just attacks the NYT. (As predicted by a respondent on this thread.)

Some right wing sources have even suggested that the NYT investigation is tainted by it's desire to put Hillary Clinton in the White House in 2016. Heaven forbid it just try and get the facts on the matter.

As for myself, I'll take the NYT methodology of fact finding and reporting over just about any source. I say this b/c I read the paper nearly every day, and no other daily paper compares to it in terms of resources and end product. The BAL SUN is a shell of its former self. TV news is mostly a joke.



Cloud, the NYT is not a governmental agency but, you knew that already didn't you?
(Gee, the NYT? The next time I want to use a ..."source I'll use "The National Tattler.) ("Calling JASON BLAIR!")
"You (do) remember when "Mr 162 i.q." said; "We will get to the bottom of this" shortly after the fact, right?
If you ask him about Benghazzi now he'd probably answer, "who's Ben Ghazzi?"
And what about the guy who made the video that H. Clinton was howling about? When is he being brought up on federal charges of murder for the embassy deaths?
She hasn't been howling about that for quite some time now has she!
I wonder why?
H. Clinton said that guy was "directly responsable" for the embassy deaths so,.....they can't *not prosecute* him right?
And wouldn't that be a death penalty case?
Silly me, Eric Holder could be drawing up charges as we speak, ...right?
Oh, feel free to correct my spelling and punctuation.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/6/2014 1:06:02 AM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/6/2014 5:21:29 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		What does any of your post have to do with the NYT investigation conducted by interviewing sources in Libya with direct knowledge about what happened? Again, you are running off on the NYT article having not even read it or much less considering its findings.

It does not seem preposterous to me that all those crazy-ass militias there turned around and bit the hand that fed them.

Next, you have long posting history here that doesn't deal in facts -- you deal mostly in claims backed by tonal certainty. You also have a repeated history of being unable to process new information.

The main culprit ID's in the NYT article is wanted by the USA as a prime suspect.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/6/2014 5:36:47 PM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/6/2014 9:09:20 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What does any of your post have to do with the NYT investigation conducted by interviewing sources in Libya with direct knowledge about what happened? Again, you are running off on the NYT article having not even read it or much less considering its findings.


The main culprit ID's in the NYT article is wanted by the USA as a prime suspect.




'Findings' - cloudboy, you make it sound as if there was anything in this that hasn't been known for almost a year.
Of course I read it. I also read the original source from which most of this crap was drawn - which included the engish language libyan newspaper. The time article doesn't even really give you much in quotes - the author regurgitates it for you in the politically correct point-of-view.

Here, try this on for more interesting:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/01/05/the_ny_times_unwittingly_destroys_obama_121131.html

As for the prime suspect. (Other than the movie maker). We must not want him very hard. He was photographed sitting in a cafe drinking coffee.

All the money spent helping the libyans - and obama can't even get them to turn over a terrorist. But hey.. what are friends for...




< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/6/2014 9:14:07 PM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 8:40:37 AM   
cloudboy


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Status: offline 		I read the NYT piece about the power vacuum in the Middle East. There was a policy discussion about this on Charlie Rose last night. Nobody seemed to know what to do. The misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have set the USA's influence back immeasurably while hurting our economy and increasing our national debt.

We spent 1 trillion dollars. Now what?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/7/2014 8:41:17 AM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 8:51:26 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I read the NYT piece about the power vacuum in the Middle East. There was a policy discussion about this on Charlie Rose last night. Nobody seemed to know what to do. The misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have set the USA's influence back immeasurably while hurting our economy and increasing our national debt.

We spent 1 trillion dollars. Now what?

Now what? Well, we could start by holding Barack Hussein Obama accountable for having at least aided and abetted, if not creating, the power vacumn in the Middle East.

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 9:21:42 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I dont know how he created a power vacuum in the middle east, seems to me that the middle east would be capable of generating their own power, and there aint nothing in the way of good leadership anywhere on the horizon out there, it is like looking at todays 'republican' party.

But didn't middle easterners run the middle east long before
Russia and the US came about?



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/7/2014 9:22:01 AM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 10:00:13 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I read the NYT piece about the power vacuum in the Middle East. There was a policy discussion about this on Charlie Rose last night. Nobody seemed to know what to do. The misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have set the USA's influence back immeasurably while hurting our economy and increasing our national debt.

We spent 1 trillion dollars. Now what?


Right. So this is about Libya. Which (for once) has nothing to do with Dubya.
So lets try to avoid bringing in Iraq, afghanistan.

Just because I get accused of being myopic so often - just wondering if you read the piece I provided you cloudboy.

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 10:21:27 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		There is a power vacuum in Libya?  Astounding.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 10:22:15 AM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline 		Lets see now, Obama with all the resources he has, the FBI, CIA, secret Army groups, secret Navy groups, etc, etc, can't pick up one of the main suspects even though the guy openly walks around, eats in public resturants, etc. Could it be that if he was "brought" to trial, (as Obama promised he would do) Testemony would come up that would be damaging to the Obama Administration?

Why did the Administration force every witness to sign confidentiality agreements? Some more than once. Wouldn't witnesses who were there, and knew the real story, back up back up Obama's story of an "spontainious attack" caused by the anti Islam video? lol lol lol

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 10:29:48 AM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline 		As far as Al quida not being involved. We really don't know, but that doesn't relieve Hillary and the State
Dept of any responsibility. If the mob makes a hit, does it really matter if it was the Gotti family or the Columbo family? The "bodyguard" of the hit member is responsible! Thats HILLARY and her department! Undisputable.

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 11:20:20 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		YOU BROUGHT UP THE NYT ARTICLE ABOUT THE POWER VACUUM IN THE MIDDLE EAST - NOW YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT!

I went to the Original NYT article, and did not read your spin article about how it would bring Obama down.

The power vacuum in the ME is disturbing - troubling - dangerous etc. What can be done about? After IRAQ and Afghanistan, the US public does not want another intervention and we don't really have the resources with a weak economy either. History shows that our meddling doesn't help.

Your problem is being locked into identity politics, if somehow you can roll shit at the President, you become interested, but when it comes to solutions -- why would you have any here when people who study the region are baffled themselves.

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 11:23:34 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

aint nothing in the way of good leadership anywhere on the horizon out there, it is like looking at todays 'republican' party.


Are you suggesting we send Sarah "Let Allah Sort It Out" Palin to the ME as a peace envoy? We could send Cheney, but he'd be arrested for war crimes. Maybe Chris Christie could shut down the shipping lanes to help show'em whose boss.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/7/2014 11:24:01 AM >

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 2:41:54 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

aint nothing in the way of good leadership anywhere on the horizon out there, it is like looking at todays 'republican' party.


Are you suggesting we send Sarah "Let Allah Sort It Out" Palin to the ME as a peace envoy? We could send Cheney, but he'd be arrested for war crimes. Maybe Chris Christie could shut down the shipping lanes to help show'em whose boss.


Lets see.. you accuse me the right wing of 'echo chamber news sources - and yet admitted you wouldn't read an opposing point of view - such as the article that demonstrated just how injurious that new york times piece was to Obama's narrative.

You accuse the right wing of "identity politics" and then engage in the same for example: "Crickets from the right wing."
Or your opening paragraph - that attacks the right wing. Or the quote post -which again attacks the right wing.

What would satisfy me?
The president admitting he lied and apologizing to the american people for lying.

The President giving compensation to the vets and to the libyans who were aiding us that lost their lives or were wounded. And asking their forgiviness.

A settlement to the man who was the movie maker.

Reinstatement of the people that were relieved of command or passed by for promotion.

And declassifying (and releasing) all informaiton that wouldn't jeopardize current operations.

It really isn't asking that much actually. Justice for the men and women that put their lives on the line for us.





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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 2:53:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But all that will naturally flow when the convict Issa gives us the irrefutable facts.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 3:59:41 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You have mail, Phydeaux


Probably the Daily Mail.

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RE: All Quiet on Benghazi - 1/7/2014 4:26:32 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Don't forget that the really hardcore Kool-Aid drinkers firmly believe that Obama has a time machine. They need to believe that, so they can blame him for things that happened years and decades before he took office.

The others probably just enjoy playing the Big Lie game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont know how he created a power vacuum in the middle east, seems to me that the middle east would be capable of generating their own power, and there aint nothing in the way of good leadership anywhere on the horizon out there, it is like looking at todays 'republican' party.

But didn't middle easterners run the middle east long before
Russia and the US came about?





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Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

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