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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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He is not indifferent. He just does not interfere in places where he is not wanted. (Who do you think God is? The United States?)
We cannot have it both ways. If we choose to exercise our free will then the outcome of our choices are our own. Most Christians believe that God intervenes in our individual lives if we invite Him in and surrender our (free) will in exchange for His will.

[:)] Free will, if indeed we have it, is not a factor in the death of children by natural (god made?) disasters that I mentioned.

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I believe that book knowledge cannot draw us closer to God. It can guide us in our seeking but our closeness to of God is based on relationship and must be experienced. Long after they burn your Bible, long after declare the old Saints to be liars, and long after science "proves" all their theories. The one thing they can never undo is what you directly experienced from (and with) God. It cannot be reasoned away, it cannot be taken away and that is why people were willing to die for it. Even if what they read and were taught was a lie, they knew that what they experienced was real. That is the godliness we seek and the godliness that transforms lives.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The answer is 42, 49 is a derail.

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

But then by that definition, anything one experiences that seems supernatural is a connection to god. So does that mean someone with Schizophrenia who sees hallucinations are actually visions from god? Or moments connecting to god? Where is the line between mental disorder/ crazy and faith/religion in a god? Or is it all the same with differing degrees of severity?

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yes, the laws of leviticus, which he pretty much dismissed.
Eye for an eye, he dismissed.
Ritual, dismissed.
War, dismissed.
sacrificing children, dismissed.
and so on.

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
Quite honestly, it might all be the same. Who knows? Perhaps from a spiritual point of view, those types of mental disorders are some type of "spiritual overload." Maybe the actually ARE seeing into the spiritual realm. However; every access to the spiritual realm is not necessarily connecting with God (or "Good"). According to my faith there is God/good and evil. Depending on your heart, your motives and your desires you can access either one. For myself the line is drawn with your actions. (He who does right is righteous. 1 John 3:7) If you believe you are connecting with God and you are causing no harm to yourself or others, seek on. If what you are doing is harming yourself or others then whether or not you are experiencing something spiritual becomes irrelevant at that point.

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yes, the laws of leviticus, which he pretty much dismissed.
Eye for an eye, he dismissed.
Ritual, dismissed.
War, dismissed.
sacrificing children, dismissed.
and so on.

Well, other than the fact the Bible never authorized child sacrifice, Jesus did not so much dismiss the "Old Testament" as fulfill it.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
Firstly, I am not blaming god if he does not exist. If he does exist he is either a mean bastard or indifferent to the sufferings of his creations, and the passage is a lie that tells us 'god so loved man that he gave his only begotten son, yatta, yatta.' Mean or indifferent or non-existent?? Your choice.

As to where we live, mankind has inhabited every niche and cranny on this tiny planet. There is hardly a place of safety from god's disasters. If there is we would not all fit there, so your suggestion that we are to blame for living in dangerous places is hilariously absurd. For the most part humans lack property and live in crowded areas already, many not far from the place of their birth. And here you come along and suggest that choice of living accommodations is a SIN! Ludicrous in the extreme. Is it your religion who teaches you to blame the victims.

And germs: pathogens, like all predators evolve to adapt to the defenses of their prey. Does god encourage their adaptations or does he not simply care? Or maybe he isn't there.

The question is as old as Job. Why does a benevolent god permit suffering of the innocent? The answers seem unsatisfying to me other than there is no god and thus religion and all the quotes from your ancient books are nonsense that keep mankind in ignorance.

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
True. But we must not forget that the Old Testament contained a harsh, brutal and unforgiving law. There was no salvation or deliverance in the Old Testament. There was no hope. There was no "Abundant Life."

Sometimes we are taught by being shown what to do. But a good deal of the Old Testament is to show us "what not to do."

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, if god is teaching, perhaps he should come and lecture in person, it would go a long way towards gaining real credibility with even those who identify as christian.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I dunno, Abram became Abraham because he was willing to make that joyful noise unto the lord. And fulfill it?  I recognize the claptrap from the bible, but of course it is vacuous and specious.

How was it fulfilled, laws from Leviticus?  Even a child walking into the holy of holies, or a unsupervised crawler making his way on his fours,  was subject to death. 

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, so you are arguing mordantly something that holds no commerce?  I fain fuckin disbelieve it.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And such proof is forthcoming? Nah, he walked among men, he is able to hide himself in the garden, or the burning bush, or in the holy of holies, cmon, this aint fuckin Dobie Gillis here. Or send his kid down here, lets here it from the actual guys.......they did it before they can do it again, and they can do it continuously.

This is IAM, he can do anything.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

so, you got half of it, now finish the rest, how about a child walking into the holy of holies, dead or not?  You are running both sides of your mouth, but not in the same language, look upon god and die, I assume that means infants as well?

Great horned jeebus, if we gotta look at someone so fuckin ugly we will die, that ain't the sorta fatherly thing we look for generally, in humanity.

Really frangible edges, this christianity fairy tale. 

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
True. But we must not forget that the Old Testament contained a harsh, brutal and unforgiving law. There was no salvation or deliverance in the Old Testament. There was no hope. There was no "Abundant Life."

Sometimes we are taught by being shown what to do. But a good deal of the Old Testament is to show us "what not to do."

I don't really agree that the "Old Testament contained a harsh, brutal and unforgiving law".

It was a tutor leading to the Christ and thus I don't see the Law as "harsh, brutal and unforgiving" because nothing that would lead us to the Christ could be so.

So why do people consider the "Old Testament" to be so "harsh, brutal and unforgiving"? When the Israelites followed the law they were the most blessed people that have ever existed on the Earth. What happened? Most of what is considered "harsh, brutal and unforgiving" comes from people who have turn away from God. Thus, as you say, are examples of what not to do.