RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (Full Version)

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EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:00:19 PM)

You can keep making up incorrect definitions of 'a reasonable person' and of 'psychopath' all you want, the law isn't going to change itself to suit you.




quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR

how I see the facts reported I'm more inclined in thinking the 71 year old acted not for fear but out of frustration, it is not reasonable to think he would be attacked when being in a cinema if there was not a row of seats at least movements were slowed down, and the victim wife was between them calming down his husband, he would have been forced to attack his spouse first. A popcorn bag is not painfull and not violence it is a provocation to humiliate. To me it looks more something like "this is battery, ah-ha I got you! ... and bang!", and this is the kind of dangerouse thinking process the stand your ground principle incentive.

But we are trying to view the actions of a reasonable person not a sociopath.


yes exactly, and the 71 year old is not in the reasonable person category, he is or a person that acted because of anger or a sociopath in both cases not a reasonable person.




EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:07:32 PM)

Stand your ground isn't based on gender differences.

Without SYG, a group of home invaders could take a whole family captive, torture them , kill most of them, and if one victim breaks free and gets to a gun to shoot the criminals, they would be guilty of violating the older 'retreat to the wall' laws that SYG replaced, because they didn't try to escape instead of stopping the threat.

No matter how much media hand wringing goes on, SYG is a rational position, which like everything else in real life, carries with it the potential for a liar to misuse and mis-claim.




quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

As far as stand your ground, as a woman who this law is supposed to benefit, I find it pathetic and morally incomprehensible.




EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:11:49 PM)

So people who are being raped and murdered, and have a way to stop the threat, are unreasonable if they don't just lie back and enjoy it?

That's pathetic.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

reasonable people do not kill other people




EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:15:27 PM)

In all seriousness, what avenue of escape is open to someone standing in between the seats in a theater? Running along the backs of the seats? Leaping 40 or 50 feet in a single bound?


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

I have my opinions, and I state them but I will always be polite in doing so. My mother and the military instilled a bit of manners in me.
The gun jamming was a question, along with his prior acts, if proven, in regards to his confronting other movie goers.. it will go to his state of mind at the time.
I'm sorry, I don't buy into he was afraid for his life. He was not cornered with no means of escape. He was fifty percent responsible for the position which he allowed himself to stay into. That alone does not justify murder.




PeonForHer -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:24:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Without SYG, a group of home invaders could take a whole family captive, torture them , kill most of them, and if one victim breaks free and gets to a gun to shoot the criminals, they would be guilty of violating the older 'retreat to the wall' laws that SYG replaced, because they didn't try to escape instead of stopping the threat.


I must say, I used to watch The Waltons when I was a kid, and this never happened to them, so far as I recall. Was the reality that it was actually a regular occurrence, across the USA, before those SYG laws came into being?



Moonhead -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:31:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This speaks to the fact that until attacked by Oulsen he did not use the weapon.

That isn't how you spell "supposition".
As yet, there is no evidence that the old fart didn't start the fight himself.



PeonForHer -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:33:39 PM)

Come to think of it, we don't have any SYG laws in Britain, yet I can't recall a single instance here when 'a group of home invaders took a whole family captive, tortured them and killed most of them'. Not once, in the whole of history. Obviously this can't be because British people are less savage and primitive than Americans - so what can possibly explain it? How on *earth* did we survive as a nation without those crucial SYG laws?




DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:38:51 PM)

In all seriousness, how can someone justify being in fear for his life to the point of shooting another in a theater with 24 or so other patrons?



EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:41:25 PM)

How nice of you to show concern for the people who were victimized in that manner.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchstats.html


quote:

According to a report by the United States Department of Justice, 38% of assaults and 60% of rapes occur in the home during an invasion.

http://www.homesecurityconcepts.com/home-safety/home-invasion-statistics.html


http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/victim-in-serious-but-stable-condition-after-early-morning-shooting/-/10136486/21212752/-/bsx5f7z/-/index.html

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/07/annapolis-pair-doused-with-bleach-during-armed-home-invasion-91449.html

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/http://www.blackpast.org/aah/rosewood-massacre-1923

http://www.gcpolice.org/History/Clutter/Pictures_for_Clutters.htm

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.S/s/speck-richard.htm

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/grandview/family-member-describes-the-3-hour-torture-in-violent-home-invasion

http://www.kpho.com/story/18151559/police-woman-raped-tortured-and-forced-to-drink-bleach



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Without SYG, a group of home invaders could take a whole family captive, torture them , kill most of them, and if one victim breaks free and gets to a gun to shoot the criminals, they would be guilty of violating the older 'retreat to the wall' laws that SYG replaced, because they didn't try to escape instead of stopping the threat.


I must say, I used to watch The Waltons when I was a kid, and this never happened to them, so far as I recall. Was the reality that it was actually a regular occurrence, across the USA, before those SYG laws came into being?




PeonForHer -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:47:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

In all seriousness, how can someone justify being in fear for his life to the point of shooting another in a theater with 24 or so other patrons?


I can't. But I don't need to, because this particular kind of insanity doesn't happen in Britain and nobody here would even start to argue the rights and wrongs of it. They would know it was lunacy right off the bat.



PeonForHer -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:50:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

How nice of you to show concern for the people who were victimized in that manner.


Oh, I'm sorry, Ed - we seem to be at cross purposes. I actually *love* hearing about Americans being tortured and killed, though I am of course deeply envious that our restricted freedoms here in the UK have never allowed us to enjoy the same things.

I do hope that clears up any misunderstandings between us. [:)]



EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:57:25 PM)

No one has ever pulled out a deadly weapon and killed or wound anyone at sporting or other entertainment events? Just doesn't happen, hmm?

Well, as long as we have your word on that.



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

In all seriousness, how can someone justify being in fear for his life to the point of shooting another in a theater with 24 or so other patrons?


I can't. But I don't need to, because this particular kind of insanity doesn't happen in Britain and nobody here would even start to argue the rights and wrongs of it. They would know it was lunacy right off the bat.




EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 5:58:34 PM)

I never misunderstood you in the first place.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

How nice of you to show concern for the people who were victimized in that manner.


Oh, I'm sorry, Ed - we seem to be at cross purposes. I actually *love* hearing about Americans being tortured and killed, though I am of course deeply envious that our restricted freedoms here in the UK have never allowed us to enjoy the same things.

I do hope that clears up any misunderstandings between us. [:)]




PeonForHer -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 6:00:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

No one has ever pulled out a deadly weapon and killed or wound anyone at sporting or other entertainment events? Just doesn't happen, hmm?



Oh now, Ed, I know you're just itching to post a link, aren't you, you crafty devil, you!
[;)]



DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 6:12:00 PM)

Just as the now dead texter was rude and disregarded the policy of the movie theater, so did Reeves by taking his handgun into a theater that was a gun free zone. I guess just as the man texting, Reeves felt he didn't have to abide by policy either.






Phydeaux -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 6:26:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


I can't. But I don't need to, because this particular kind of insanity doesn't happen in Britain....



quite right. Britain is famous for its manners. No popcorn throwing there.




EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 6:36:27 PM)

You seem to be doing just fine operating without any reference to reality, so why should I waste my time? As I said, we have your word on the matter, so end of discussion.



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

No one has ever pulled out a deadly weapon and killed or wound anyone at sporting or other entertainment events? Just doesn't happen, hmm?



Oh now, Ed, I know you're just itching to post a link, aren't you, you crafty devil, you!
[;)]




EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 6:39:39 PM)

That has nothing to do with what I asked you.

You've mentioned how easy it would have been for this 71 year old to retreat if there was in fact a physical attack, and I don't see how, if he was standing in the middle of a row.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

Just as the now dead texter was rude and disregarded the policy of the movie theater, so did Reeves by taking his handgun into a theater that was a gun free zone. I guess just as the man texting, Reeves felt he didn't have to abide by policy either.








DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 7:05:52 PM)

Very easily, if the texting was so bothersome to him, he should have taken his wife and moved seats. Where did it say a standing face to face confrontation took place for any period of time? Just as he managed to take his seat, get up and go to management and return, he could have left again.
In your opinion you can wrap it up anyway you want to warrant a justifiable shooting, and in my opinion he's a murderer.



BamaD -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/17/2014 8:24:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This speaks to the fact that until attacked by Oulsen he did not use the weapon.

That isn't how you spell "supposition".
As yet, there is no evidence that the old fart didn't start the fight himself.

Why did you put my name on someone else's post?



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