RE: Death penalty for being an asshole

RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (Full Version)

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DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 9:42:41 PM)
It may just be my opinion but I believe that a man who once wore the uniform of blue, would have enough experience and sense to diffuse the situation. Walking away does not make you the weaker person just as carrying a firearm does not make you always right.

BamaD -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 9:56:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 It may just be my opinion but I believe that a man who once wore the uniform of blue, would have enough experience and sense to diffuse the situation. Walking away does not make you the weaker person just as carrying a firearm does not make you always right. Refuting two assertions I did not make. So the man who initiated the violence is not in the wrong, the man who fought back is.

EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 9:57:02 PM)
That would seem to be the default position. Which leaves lots of questions. Sudden senility? An actual perception of a serious and immediate threat? One has to wonder what the media is leaving out. quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 It may just be my opinion but I believe that a man who once wore the uniform of blue, would have enough experience and sense to diffuse the situation. Walking away does not make you the weaker person just as carrying a firearm does not make you always right.

DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:08:52 PM)
I think both of them were in the wrong, the dead man for texting and not standing down and the retired cop for not having the presence about him to walk away when he knew it was escalating. Why feed fire with fire? Am I holding the retired LEO a little more accountable.. perhaps I am. He was trained on how to handle these situations and his calmer head should have prevailed but I have a feeling he is just as culpable as the dead man.

BamaD -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:12:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 I think both of them were in the wrong, the dead man for texting and not standing down and the retired cop for not having the presence about him to walk away when he knew it was escalating. Why feed fire with fire? Am I holding the retired LEO a little more accountable.. perhaps I am. He was trained on how to handle these situations and his calmer head should have prevailed but I have a feeling he is just as culpable as the dead man. I think that it rests on the man who decided to bully and abuse an old man. He just picked the wrong old man. If I threw popcorn in some ones face it would be to distract them from the real attack.

Rule -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:13:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 He was trained on how to handle these situations Quite: he ought not to have shot the hand of that slavegirl - but perhaps she surprised him.

EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:17:14 PM)
The chances seem high that you are right. Which is why I want to know more details, to account for the low percentage factors.. quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 I think both of them were in the wrong, the dead man for texting and not standing down and the retired cop for not having the presence about him to walk away when he knew it was escalating. Why feed fire with fire? Am I holding the retired LEO a little more accountable.. perhaps I am. He was trained on how to handle these situations and his calmer head should have prevailed but I have a feeling he is just as culpable as the dead man.

DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:22:57 PM)
That is your opinion, but don't make it sound as this was a frail old man. Tempers on both parties flared and if he was so afraid for his personal safety he should have removed himself by either moving or leaving any option he could have taken but he choose to stay where he was keeping himself in the "abusive" situation and then made another conscious decision to draw his weapon and fire.

EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:30:06 PM)
Again, the reports are that he did remove himself and go for the manager. Was he supposed to run home instead? Why? And where are we getting knowledge of his physical strength and prowess at 71? Didn't you say you knew cops? They rarely come out the other end without serious physical problems, so how exactly is a 71 year old supposed to toss around the muscular young man we saw in those pictures, especially if he had just been sucker punched? quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 That is your opinion, but don't make it sound as this was a frail old man. Tempers on both parties flared and if he was so afraid for his personal safety he should have removed himself by either moving or leaving any option he could have taken but he choose to stay where he was keeping himself in the "abusive" situation and then made another conscious decision to draw his weapon and fire.

DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:45:40 PM)
He could have chosen to move to different seats, he could have chosen to leave, he could have went to management again the bottom line to me is that he had other options besides the end result of deadly force. As far as his age and physical condition, all I was saying is that it shouldn't be presumed that this is a frail old man. Yes, I do know cops and not all of them retire with a dunlap and bad knees, just as some of them have maintained from falling into the "Do as I say" mentality while others have not. I know that I personally would not keep myself in a volatile situation and if I did choose to do so the outcome of it would be in part from a decision I made. If I knew that my words or actions had set another person off I would remove myself instead of staying and possibly put myself in possible physical danger and then use my weapon because I all of a sudden was afraid for my life.

TheHeretic -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 10:59:13 PM)
FR The new information I saw in the feeds today was that a woman has come forward claiming she encountered the shooter at a movie about a month ago, that he told her to stop texting in the movie, and that he later followed her to the restroom, and gave her a dirty look. The police are supposed to be reviewing the security tapes, to see if it was the same man.

DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 11:15:31 PM)
If that information turns out to be true then things could get very interesting.

TheHeretic -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 11:27:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 If that information turns out to be true then things could get very interesting. Big IF, is my thinking, but that's what was out there today. The bathroom is a pretty common stop for people exiting a theater, and people hanging around the doors waiting for a companion is the norm. Since my axe for the grinder with this story is about getting it into the heads of theater assholes nationwide that their behavior just might have genuine unpleasant consequences, I'm hoping she's becoming afraid, and is mistaken on the identity.

DominantWoman65 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/15/2014 11:37:43 PM)
I guess we will have to see what the security tapes reveal. As much as I can't stand people who text during a movie and find their behavior selfish and ill mannered, I have the same feeling for people using the defense of "standing your ground" or self defense when that person could have removed themselves from the imminent "threat".

Politesub53 -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/16/2014 1:48:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 It may just be my opinion but I believe that a man who once wore the uniform of blue, would have enough experience and sense to diffuse the situation. Walking away does not make you the weaker person just as carrying a firearm does not make you always right. Refuting two assertions I did not make. So the man who initiated the violence is not in the wrong, the man who fought back is. Initiated the violence...... How do you know who intitiated it, it seems like the guy who did the shooting kept the row going.

Lucylastic -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/16/2014 3:29:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic FR The new information I saw in the feeds today was that a woman has come forward claiming she encountered the shooter at a movie about a month ago, that he told her to stop texting in the movie, and that he later followed her to the restroom, and gave her a dirty look. The police are supposed to be reviewing the security tapes, to see if it was the same man. Just so you know, i passed that info on in post 86.......

joether -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/16/2014 4:08:04 AM)
One other piece of info not being circulated here: blind rage. When the human body experiences growing anger the frontal section of the brain (that which handles reason, wisdom, rational thought) shuts down and forces the back half of the brain to work double duty (it handles emotions). The person was already angry to begin with by the point the frontal half of the brain 'shuts down', the result is the back half determines the 'fight of flight' response and acts on it. Could this 71 year old been experiencing this concept? Hard to confirm. Yet, would fit the 'fight' section of using any and all attacks against what was threating the brain, including using a firearm for deadly force. Do we blame the individual? Yes, he lost control. Do we blame the firearm? Yes, it was the primary means of attack. I have no good knowledge on the depth of this man's police training. No one on this forum does. Most of the media does not either. Those around him that knew of him in the community or where he worked would have a good idea. However, that information is old and out of date. So it would fall to his medical doctor if he had one and/or his spouse. What I'm getting at here is, what was going on in this guy's mind from the moment he sat down to when the bullet left the chamber of the gun. At some point he lost control of himself and events went forth as they did. That makes him guilty of killing the other guy. While the firearm in question might have been used for self defense, it was not used in such a manner in this case. So some idiot was using a device to text in a movie theater; if that is grounds for deadly force being used, we'll see plenty of coffins piling up in front of movie theaters nation wide before summer.....

EdBowie -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/16/2014 6:27:43 AM)
I think that rational people would agree that those are better options than shooting someone under circumstances seemingly guaranteed to result in a conviction. Which once again trips my 'So what are we not being told?' switch. quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 He could have chosen to move to different seats, he could have chosen to leave, he could have went to management again the bottom line to me is that he had other options besides the end result of deadly force. As far as his age and physical condition, all I was saying is that it shouldn't be presumed that this is a frail old man. Yes, I do know cops and not all of them retire with a dunlap and bad knees, just as some of them have maintained from falling into the "Do as I say" mentality while others have not. I know that I personally would not keep myself in a volatile situation and if I did choose to do so the outcome of it would be in part from a decision I made. If I knew that my words or actions had set another person off I would remove myself instead of staying and possibly put myself in possible physical danger and then use my weapon because I all of a sudden was afraid for my life.

VideoAdminGamma -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/16/2014 7:26:51 AM)
We have our first winner for ignoring this warning. Staff try to avoid having to take administrative action by posting these warnings. It then allows the posters the chance to use self control. If you feel that you cannot control yourself then I suggest that you use the hide feature for posters that push your buttons. Please refrain from hijacking the topic by sniping back and forth or making personal attacks. Accusing others of being a "sock" or being another poster are considered personal attacks. If you feel someone is actually using sock puppet accounts, please report the post to staff. Sock puppet accounts are when someone uses more than one account to manipulate the discussion. It is not just having multiple accounts. Members may have multiple accounts, but may not post in the same topic with multiple accounts. If there are any questions please feel free to contact myself or VideAdminChi. Thank you for making CollarMe an awesome community, Gamma quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma You guys can stop the hijack with the sniping. Post to the actual topic. Reminder that it is a 3 day moderation to ignore posted warnings. Thanks, Gamma

Moonhead -> RE: Death penalty for being an asshole (1/16/2014 8:57:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I don't think I would have gone as far as that either. But then again, I'm not in my 70s and I don't know what was said or done by the deceased. I mentioned earlier that I wondered why a person with a LEO career behind them would suddenly wait until this incident to shoot. Surely he had been out in public before where people were being rude or disrespectful... what was different about this time. And the accounts seem to verify that he did go for help from the manager... what happened that he didn't wait? As far as counting on other people to save your life... Kitty Genovese. quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the use of deadly force when "assaulted" by popcorn which raises a few questions in my mind. Would the retired police captain have acted differently if he didn't have his weapon? Why didn't he just go complain to management first instead of exchanging words? Why did they not move if he felt uncomfortable? How did he feel in threat of his life with others in the theater? Was the movie theater crowded or empty and how many other people did he put in jeopardy by discharging his weapon inside the theater? I own a firearm and I personally would have tried to diffuse the situation or even walked away, I could never in my own mind could justify shooting someone when there were other options to take. Oulsen went after him for try to talk to management. Really? You can prove from the couple of bare bones accounts online that he didn't go after Oulsen after management failed to throw Oulsen out as he demanded, can you?

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