RE: Will the American Empire collapse?

RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Will the American Empire collapse?

America is and will remain strong for 100+ years

18% (8)

America is declining in power, collapse in 75 years

6% (3)

Collapse in 50 years

13% (6)

Collapse in 25 years

9% (4)

Collapse in 15 years

6% (3)

Collapse in 10 years

11% (5)

The collapse has already happened

23% (10)

It's hard to say

9% (4)

Total Votes : 43

(last vote on : 1/29/2014 5:02:40 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Tkman117 -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/15/2014 7:59:14 PM)
So what are the right polling questions? Because, ya, the USA will never truly collapse and disappear, just as the Egyptians never really disappeared or the Greeks or the Romans etc. They just adapted. Sure a lot of them never retained or regained the power and influence they had at certain points in history, but they were still around. The power the USA has now will disappear, nothing stays eternal, the question of the poll was when do people think that power will disappear, or if at all. It was more of a question of people's opinions than anything else. I didn't make it by trying to put my own twist on it or anything. It was a question pure and simple. Plus what you said about the USA getting out of everyone's shit, I think that would be best for a lot of people, but sadly I don't think a lot of people in government are suddenly going to have a change in heart. Also, every country can print their own money, the USA isn't special in that regard. It's what changes the buying power of money in different countries.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/15/2014 8:42:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 So what are the right polling questions? Because, ya, the USA will never truly collapse and disappear, just as the Egyptians never really disappeared or the Greeks or the Romans etc. They just adapted. Sure a lot of them never retained or regained the power and influence they had at certain points in history, but they were still around. The power the USA has now will disappear, nothing stays eternal, the question of the poll was when do people think that power will disappear, or if at all. It was more of a question of people's opinions than anything else. I didn't make it by trying to put my own twist on it or anything. It was a question pure and simple. Plus what you said about the USA getting out of everyone's shit, I think that would be best for a lot of people, but sadly I don't think a lot of people in government are suddenly going to have a change in heart. Also, every country can print their own money, the USA isn't special in that regard. It's what changes the buying power of money in different countries. There are no correct polling questions because...there are no end to the possibilities. The correct question was as posed: "Will the American Empire collapse?" Everything else was a lead in, a directive to answer the question as you wished the answer to be. "I have a question: Here are the approved answers:"

Zonie63 -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 5:57:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 So what are the right polling questions? Because, ya, the USA will never truly collapse and disappear, just as the Egyptians never really disappeared or the Greeks or the Romans etc. They just adapted. Sure a lot of them never retained or regained the power and influence they had at certain points in history, but they were still around. The power the USA has now will disappear, nothing stays eternal, the question of the poll was when do people think that power will disappear, or if at all. It was more of a question of people's opinions than anything else. I didn't make it by trying to put my own twist on it or anything. It was a question pure and simple. I'm not sure if it was necessarily the "wrong question," although the main thing missing in these discussions is "What will the world look like after America's power disappears?" How will America's power disappear? That's another question which has to be examined. Will America collapse by the rest of the world joining forces against us? Or will we collapse from within, by too many entrenched competing factions fighting each other for power? And if America is facing collapse in a matter of years or a few decades, how on Earth could it have happened so quickly? What have we done to ourselves? We can't really blame anybody else for it. But yet, the general attitude seems to be "Woe is us, our country is going down the tubes and there's nothing we can do about it. Party on, dudes!" But hanging out in the shadows are some pretty pissed off people who will be looking for a scapegoat, someone to blame for this mess. That's when things will start to heat up. If America ends, it will likely end with a bang, not a whimper.

MsMJAY -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 6:22:00 AM)
America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word.

Tkman117 -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 7:09:24 AM)
The Poll is one part of the question which provides a general statistic of what people think. Of course it doesn't represent all the possibilities, no survey or poll ever does. That's why there's a forum attached, for those alternate opinions to be voiced that are too complex for the poll in question.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 11:05:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word. Technically, but the way we act across the globe certainly does make one think it. We certainly do have an imperialistic flair about our foreign policy.

vincentML -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 12:23:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to. (and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.) They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies. China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.

vincentML -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 12:29:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word. The American Empire does not exist by occupying foreign lands only. It offers protection as well as access to its markets in return for a 'coalition of the willing.' But yes, mistakes have been made. However, the 21st C will continue to be an American Century, imo.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 12:30:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to. (and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.) They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies. China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions. What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?

vincentML -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 12:34:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to. (and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.) They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies. China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions. What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have? China has one carrier group to our ten currently in service. And that one they purchase from the Ukraine for scrap before deciding to arm it. Russia has one in service.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 1:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to. (and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.) They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies. China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions. What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have? China has one carrier group to our ten currently in service. And that one they purchase from the Ukraine for scrap before deciding to arm it. Russia has one in service. That's it? They have nothing else? They have no "spy" planes? No recon? Nothing else? I find that to be interesting.

Moonhead -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 2:39:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The American Empire does not exist by occupying foreign lands only. It offers protection as well as access to its markets in return for a 'coalition of the willing.' How's that working out with the Chinese and the Saudis?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 4:49:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word. Technically, but the way we act across the globe certainly does make one think it. We certainly do have an imperialistic flair about our foreign policy. No less.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 4:51:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word. The American Empire does not exist by occupying foreign lands only. It offers protection as well as access to its markets in return for a 'coalition of the willing.' But yes, mistakes have been made. However, the 21st C will continue to be an American Century, imo. I suspect you're right Vincent. We still need to get out of everyone else's shit. It's not our fucking place.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 4:59:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to. (and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.) They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies. China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions. What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have? I know this isn't news to you but....always remember, nature abhors a vacuum and...history can (and does) turn on a dime. I think we're (The U.S.) creating swamplands and negative vacuums by our egocentrically incessant impudent actions. I'm not smart enough to be a Monday morning quarterback as to politics, but I am smart enough to know that most of the shit we all complain about today...in 30 years we'll go (after the docs got released) "Oh...yeah...that's why they did that...hmmmm....guess so and so wasn't such an asshole after all". (As in, I'm hopeful our leaders aren't, as so many want to believe about Obama...or as so many have opted to blog, write about, or exclaim that any given Prez is the singular personification of Satan). But I sure as shit fear that we are singularly pissing in the soup. Because we can. Just seems crazy to me to be telling your neighbor what color to paint his house and, when he doesn't paint it according to (our) desires.....we light the fucker's car on fire and at some point, kill his dog and even steal his mortgage coupons so he forgets to pay for his house (but stand there when the bank comes by, he with a questioned look on his face and we stand there smiling, supping a nice cappuccino....waving the mortgage coupons in the air as he tries to explain why he's late...to make it clear we aren't to be trifled with. Because we can. It just seems fucked up to me.

MasterCaneman -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/16/2014 10:24:26 PM)
I say fifty years, give or take a decade at the most. Much of it has to do with economies here and abroad, as well as our international commitments we've made. Already, our infrastructure is crumbling, corruption and mismanagement is starting to really take its toll (Detroit), and we've mortgaged too much of our future revenue to pay for today's playtime. I don't have the answer nor will I pretend to. The only thing I can think of is to rein in our overseas adventuring to just those places we really need to be, start cutting domestic spending, and maybe start trying to run this country as a for-profit business (though I can't imagine how that would work). What is going on now isn't going to last, and the sad thing is, it's being played out by people who know they won't be here when it all crumbles under our feet.

mnottertail -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/17/2014 5:36:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to. (and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.) They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies. China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions. What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have? China has one carrier group to our ten currently in service. And that one they purchase from the Ukraine for scrap before deciding to arm it. Russia has one in service. That's it? They have nothing else? They have no "spy" planes? No recon? Nothing else? I find that to be interesting. Well, they do have a great deal of control electronics in our siege engines (planes, tanks, computers, satellites, and so forth) so their shadow war machine is much larger than their actual standing army (or the ability to stand it, which is OMFG).

vincentML -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/17/2014 10:42:21 AM)
quote: That's it? They have nothing else? They have no "spy" planes? No recon? Nothing else? I find that to be interesting. Well, I am awaiting further reports from my agents in the field. However, unless you think either Russia or China would attempt a land invasion of the United States the core of power and mobility lies with the Carrier Groups I think.

FellowSlave -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/17/2014 10:48:02 AM)
quote: What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have? It is pretty much irrelevant. The only question is what their nuclear capabilities are. It is basically overcoming the US Anti-missile defense capabilities. This is where the developments are if you follow resent tests by the two countries (China Moon landing and fast missile, Russia tested new ballistic missile systems). US ground forces are no match to Russia or China when US would be the aggressor; they are low moral "paper tiger" regardless of the best weapons systems. They are only effective when the opponent is very weak, and they have overwhelming superiority. It is as things are, I am not trying to put America down because of lack of sympathy.

vincentML -> RE: Will the American Empire collapse? (1/17/2014 10:48:20 AM)
quote: Well, they do have a great deal of control electronics in our siege engines (planes, tanks, computers, satellites, and so forth) so their shadow war machine is much larger than their actual standing army (or the ability to stand it, which is OMFG). Two things. I would appreciate an explanation of their control electronics in our siege engines. Secondly, they can mount as big an army as they wish but the logistics of an attack across the oceans seem pretty formidable.

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