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Deception - 7/5/2006 9:48:27 AM

headroom

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

New to this lifestyle. Have a slave who is addicted to this site and emails and chats with other Doms. IM's others when I am not around and lies about it. Emails others and we have discussed this as being improper without permission. Trying to get back on the right track with her as we have a history and time and money invested in each other. Says she talks to one who understands the history she has had with bad relationships and her desires for this lifestyle. We had some trouble a couple months back and I was not there for her when I was needed. Part of this was her being non-attentive and part was my fault for being submersed in work, stressed, and not seeing the forest for the trees. I really want to keep her because she has so many good qualities. When I have physically disciplined her she feels as though it is out of anger and not an effort to teach or show her that I care about what she is doing. Any advice from those with experience would be appreciated.

Post #: 1

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 9:55:13 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

The punishment must fit the crime. Is she second guessing you? Do they know she is taken and that she is not thinking about leaving you? Is she thinking about leaving you? Hardly enough data to form a realistic opinion, but IF she is acting out and lying to you..................

Time for a complete and total 'Come to Jesus'..................set aside the weekend and be prepared for listening, ask the questions, do not judge and see what is the matter.........

It may be make or break regardless of the time and effort.

I could go on and on.... but it is ALL rather pissing in the wind without more info.

Sincerely (and good luck),
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 2

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 9:56:25 AM

TxBadMan

Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: headroom

New to this lifestyle. Have a slave who is addicted to this site and emails and chats with other Doms. IM's others when I am not around and lies about it. Emails others and we have discussed this as being improper without permission. Trying to get back on the right track with her as we have a history and time and money invested in each other. Says she talks to one who understands the history she has had with bad relationships and her desires for this lifestyle. We had some trouble a couple months back and I was not there for her when I was needed. Part of this was her being non-attentive and part was my fault for being submersed in work, stressed, and not seeing the forest for the trees. I really want to keep her because she has so many good qualities. When I have physically disciplined her she feels as though it is out of anger and not an effort to teach or show her that I care about what she is doing. Any advice from those with experience would be appreciated.

My first question would be 'how long have the two of you known each other in RL?"
Next, I would say, that if she was mine...the relationship would be over. Period. I do not tolerate lying of any kind, for any reason.
Next, I would say that if you are physically punishing her, and it is not working; then the relationship is not working. Personally, I find physical punishment for transgressions to be useless and will not use it.

Since there is only one side of the story here, it's hard to give informed advice. However, from the information given, all I can say is that it sounds as if the two of you are doing nothing more than playing some head games with each other.

_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 3

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 9:56:30 AM

alwaysobeyingyou

Posts: 20
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline

Well - I can't really offer advice, but I know how you feel. The one I am dating, dom, continues talking to other women on this site and its very hurtful to me as well.

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 4

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:00:55 AM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

He said, she said.

Firstly, your questions are barely coherent. Try to state this more clearly-or you will get nothing but more emotional responses.

Secondly, have her do the same, from her side.

This will only degenerate into more finger-pointing and squabbling without the whole story being told.

And we already have quite enough of that sort of useless drama here.

You want to achieve Mastery?

Achieve clarity, and some SMALL degree of organization FIRST.

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 5

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:03:40 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

You might ask her why she feels that she has to lie to you about it. Are you opposed to her speaking to others...or just opposed to her lying about it? Is she speaking to them under the pretense of a relationship...or is she being honest with them about her relationship with you?

Although I must say, as TxBadMan did....lying is an absolute deal breaker for me, regardless of the motivation. I guess that is something that you have to decide for yourself though.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 6

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:05:10 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

I am not sure I have a right to butt in on a Master thread..but I do it with much respect so hopefully it's ok.

It seems like maybe she is looking for a way out but doesn't know how to ask, or maybe she is just pushing you for attention, or to see how much you will take. I don't know her though, or what you all have been through together though, so forgive me if this is not correct.

I think that a lot have done that. If you can't get attention for being good.. or you feel neglected, you act out and take the attention as you can get it..even the bad kind.

Maybe she likes going to these others for sympathy about her plight with you... or whatever she considers it..she likes what she gets out of it.

Maybe you aren't giving her what she needs, maybe you are trying to..but she isn't being open and honest with you. I think the fault could lay with both or either of you.

It's for sure a time to open the lines of communication up. That may mean you all can work it out, or it may mean you both agree to move on. Time and more invested in a relationshiop are very important, but you also don't want to just stay with someone because you are used to the stability of them.

When lying and more becomes so much in your relationship, I can't see trust rearing it's head again any time soon.

All the above is just my opinion...

Respectfully, andrea

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to alwaysobeyingyou)

Post #: 7

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:11:34 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear headroom, Ladies and Gentlemen;

First rule of a Master/Mistress is never iscolate a slave from friends, family, information and or support.

Dominants and submissives a like need support, help and sometimes a safe place to vent, to which doesn't harm the communications conflicts between the dominant and submissive. The sad part is having to lie to be feed with the need to communicate. There are always two sides of the story however, I can honestly tell you as a Dominant--you need to make time for a slave/submissive just as much as you would do for any relationship. Consider it an investment.

I must use what you have proffered. So, the areas to which I pose for consideration might be a focus point for you both, this is what I see in my mind's eye.

Those who have been abused have times where there are triggers, to which need dedicated time and guided over the rough times. Sometimes words fail to express the pain, anguish, the frustrations and the inner war of what was and what is, as a dominant's behavior triggers such 'tug a war' of things past and present. Most of all, this is when they need hugs and not the pain of discipline. But, perhaps there is no 'code' word you both can agree to, to which when these episodes crop up to make it a total focus on each other period. Much like a 'scene's safe word 'red''... but, do make a different code color or word, as to know she needs you as her hero.

I also would express what you feel about when she lies to you. How much it hurts you and hurts the D/s relationship. Knowing the consequences of the lies.

It is also easy to 'feel' anger transmitted through the hand or tool when punishing. This can be demonstrated on yourself, by having two strong emotions- love and hate. Doing a mental picture of these two extremes mere placement of your hand on your face's cheek, with a total love and hate focus, you can actually feel the change in energy.
Justice is without emotion. So, perhaps pick a time when at your calm point. Administer the just punishment after explaining what will be happening, why it will happen, do it and then end it. So, make sure a slave knows the beginning of the punishment and ending. Then move on and don't use it as a constant reminder of the error. Start fresh and begin over from that point. So, when you are thinking of the thing that angered you in the first place, during the punishment--it does transmit as 'anger.' So, you'll have to focus on something less transmitting--like the discipline itself.

You both know each other better than I. However, communication is so very important as well as knowing boundaries, being constant and knowing that given a code word--focus on each other is immediate.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 8

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:25:06 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

You've stated there are faults on both sides, fair enough but where do you go from here.

For me the lies would be the end, there is no faster way to destroy my trust in the relationship than to lie to me and without the trust, there IS no relationship regardless of how much I may care. However you are not me, you might work diffrently.

Communication to find out the why behind the lies would possibly be a startpoint, but how much of the communication from her are you going to be able to trust in given she has already been lying to you?

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 9

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:25:12 AM

headroom

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

She is lying to them as well. She allows them to believe that she is not taken. It is a fantasy for her. She likes to play with their heads and stir them up. But there are a couple whom she does not torture. I recently found out that she had been owned for 16 years and did not tell me. That ended 10 years ago. She has introduced me to this lifestyle and is impatient with my inexperience at this point. I am learning more each day, though. I do not think she is desiring to leave as long as I continue to take her to new places. We had a wonderful session night before last and it brought her back close to me as she has just emailed me to tell me exactly that. However, the broken trust that she has for me, and the tough time I am having trusting her is making it difficult and slow moving ahead. Thank you for your insight based on the little info given. Much appreciated. Thank you for not being judgemental.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 10

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:35:49 AM

headroom

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Thank you all for your time and focus. I have a lot to do and consider. Nice to know there are good helpful people out there.

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 11

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 10:44:30 AM

mtumwawaBwana

Posts: 541
Status: offline

this is another case of: i wish my Master was this kind and not punish me when i screw up.......but then it would not be a Master / slave relationship if He did not punish me.

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 12

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 11:25:52 AM

BuxomGoddess714

Posts: 91
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: So.California
Status: offline

Dear Sir,

This girl manipulates people and lies on a regular basis....... for kicks. To satisfy something she should see a psychiatrist about. With no regard to what affect she is having on these people she is toying with. Does that not concern You about how she may be toying with YOU, Sir? For her to chat or talk to anyone and let them think she is not taken would say to ME she is looking for a new Dom, is not committed, is keeping her options open while having the security of You and doesn't care who gets hurt in the process, including You. This is unfair to everyone. I don't believe in isolation and I am poly. But there is NEVER an appropriate reason to lie about one's relationship status, ever. It is disrespectful to yourself, your partner, and the person you are lying to. This girl is not trustworthy, not honest, lacks integrity and doesn't respect other people's feelings or your relationship. As others have said, communication with a dishonest person seems rather pointless. You'll just get more manipulation. I'm quite sure she is good at telling You exactly what You need to hear to keep stringing You along.

You are new to the lifestyle.... lies and manipulation is not what its about. There is no place for that in any relationship, especially one that needs to be based on Trust and Respect. A leopard doesn't change it's spots. Don't be suprised by anything that happens; You will never know what is really going on with a Liar.

Very best of luck to You. I do not envy Your situation and I would get out of it. I know when You love them and have been trying so hard to work around their lies it is torture to do it, but its the right thing and will be less painful in the long run. I know of where I speak. Been there, done that, wrote the book, have the Tshirt and the Tattoo.

Be blessed,
Goddess

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 13

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 12:12:32 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

Honesty and openness is a two way street,
If you cannot trust someone to be honest then that will never ever change.
Time to move on

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 14

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 1:05:15 PM

DesertRat

Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline

This is a fast reply:

The talking with other Doms, leading them to believe she is available, and lying to you are definite 'red flag' items. Your physical punishment of her while angry is another warning sign. Maybe you two are cooked but I would have to agree with Ron. I'd want to have a major, "let it all hang out" talk with her with no time limit. Hit every issue, big and small and take as long as it takes to get it all out. If you cannot resolve all the issues, or at the very least, come up with a very well defined path to complete resolution, then, in my opinion, it would be best to start over with someone else, using what you have learned from this experience to prevent similar situations from arising. The caveat being, as Ron noted, this is all based on fairly minimal information. Good luck to you.

Bob

ps...If she is talking to other Doms about her problems with you, then you have a particularly gnarly problem. In doing that, she is basically demoting you to a secondary or 'candidate' role; not a good thing in a Master/slave relationship.

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 7/5/2006 1:07:46 PM >

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 15

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 1:11:37 PM

Taylore

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: headroom

New to this lifestyle. Have a slave who is addicted to this site and emails and chats with other Doms. IM's others when I am not around and lies about it. Emails others and we have discussed this as being improper without permission. Trying to get back on the right track with her as we have a history and time and money invested in each other. Says she talks to one who understands the history she has had with bad relationships and her desires for this lifestyle. We had some trouble a couple months back and I was not there for her when I was needed. Part of this was her being non-attentive and part was my fault for being submersed in work, stressed, and not seeing the forest for the trees. I really want to keep her because she has so many good qualities. When I have physically disciplined her she feels as though it is out of anger and not an effort to teach or show her that I care about what she is doing. Any advice from those with experience would be appreciated.

If this slave were to lie to Master, for any reason, it would end our relationship on the spot. No second chances.
If Master were to punish me in anger ( physical punishment ), it would end our relationship on the spot. No second chances.

In the three years that we have been together, never has he punished me while angry. Displeased, yes, but never angry. In addition to this, it is only recently that I have moved to be closer to Master; in the time before the move, never once has this slave lied to Master; nor has she felt the need to.

This slave in no way means to sound rude or judgemental, but it sounds like neither of you are ready or willing to put the time and effort into the relationship that is needed. Perhaps it is time to say goodbye while there are still some good feelings between you?

_____________________________

Taylore

(in reply to headroom)

Post #: 16

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 2:48:10 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all,

I am in agreement with the poster who stated that her first
rule is to not isolate her submissive(s) from friends, family,
loved ones, etc.

There is a reason the person feels the need to lie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

For me the lies would be the end, there is no faster way to destroy my trust in the relationship than to lie to me and without the trust, there IS no relationship regardless of how much I may care. However you are not me, you might work diffrently.

I tend to avoid being this black and white. I am fairly easygoing, but it is definitely a storm cloud on the horizon in terms of the relationship. Am I blocking her access to other people? Is she
trapped in some weird approach to relationships she learned
long before she was with me? So before I made a decision to end the relationship, I would want to know the answers to these questions.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 17

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 2:52:11 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

Your physical punishment of her while angry is another warning sign.

Hello A/all,

While I have issues with physical punishment in general, my attitude
towards doing it while angry crosses a big red line in my book.

If she does something which makes me angry, and I punish her
physically for it (especially if she is a pain slut), then who is
actually in control in the relationship?

As Peyton Quinn observed "Either you are in control of yourself,
or somebody else is."

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to DesertRat)

Post #: 18

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 3:04:46 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

headroom, you seem like a together man. As long as your not married, I'm sure there would be heaps of submissives who would jump at the chance to be with you. I agree with the other posters, where there are lies, there can be no trust, and where there is no trust, there is no relationship. Life is too short to waste it.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 19

RE: Deception - 7/5/2006 3:37:30 PM

headroom

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Let me be clear. I did not say that I was angry when I disciplined her. She perceived that because I had taken strong hand to her that I was angry. I was not pleased with her behaviour to be sure. Thanks to the poster who described the difference between love and anger during punishment.

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 20

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