RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies

RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 11:59:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Oh.. and any answer on the dragas/boreal transition? Just curious you know because DomKen maintains that global warming that is going on is unprecedented in the history of the world. You know - we've seen what a degree in 41 years. Whereas during that dragas / boreal transisition temperature increased 15C in 50 years. The entire age has had 25+transitions, often rapid and sharp. Some papers referring to these oscillations: van der Plicht et.al 2004 Just for shits I looked up the first paper on your list. Here it is: link It is dealing with a major shift in solar output and makes no claims that temps changed by 15C in 50 years. I think it is safe to assume all the other papers in your list are also misrepresented. Got all that from a one paragraph abstract did you? I think its safe to say you never read the paper.

Tkman117 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 12:14:30 PM)
Do you know I'm still waiting for a response about you using books to support your points? As I said, any moron can get a book published, and without any method to verify it's information, it might as well be sci-fi. If there are no papers which support your points, please just go ahead and say it. There's no shame in admitting that.

Phydeaux -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 12:18:30 PM)
Your arrogance is offputting. Some books are indeed non peer reviewed etc. Others are collections of previously published science. And in fact every single one of those provided links was previously published science. Which you didn't even bother to look up before making the assertion. so its pretty established that you have no interest in "science" you're just interested in defending your point of view. It is amusing that once again, even with title and author you couldn't find a paper, or find your own links. Here's the link to the last one I quoted, published in Progress in Physical Geography, since you, ya know, couldn't find it. http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/transit.html How'd it go asking your professor about D-O events, or the Younger Dragas/ preboreal temperature change?

mnottertail -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 1:10:07 PM)
Yeah, you got a link but have not used it as a cite. It does not say anything like the shit you been trying to peddle. So we have something that happened 122000 years ago, then we have something happening in around 1650 or so and that on a 1500 year cycle. Then you talk something pre-boreal (it is preboreal, it can stand on its goddamn own) from 10000 to 9000 years ago. No conclusions there whether it is part of a cycle or whether it is climate change affected by man. In any case, as I said the dismantling of nukes was set somewhere between 1998 and 2005 by Germany and the current conservative government there did not read this paper when they decided to put up more coal plants and reduce some green energy subsidies. Look, it snowed yesterday. This is much like the early holocene period when it snowed. It must be the dinosaurs.

DomKen -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 4:38:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Oh.. and any answer on the dragas/boreal transition? Just curious you know because DomKen maintains that global warming that is going on is unprecedented in the history of the world. You know - we've seen what a degree in 41 years. Whereas during that dragas / boreal transisition temperature increased 15C in 50 years. The entire age has had 25+transitions, often rapid and sharp. Some papers referring to these oscillations: van der Plicht et.al 2004 Just for shits I looked up the first paper on your list. Here it is: link It is dealing with a major shift in solar output and makes no claims that temps changed by 15C in 50 years. I think it is safe to assume all the other papers in your list are also misrepresented. Got all that from a one paragraph abstract did you? I think its safe to say you never read the paper. I know enough from the abstract and my own knowledge of the issue. A 15C change in average global temperatures in 50 years would have wiped out most life on the planet including H sapiens. You seem to grossly misunderstand what that would mean. 11.4 ka BP is at the very start of the present interglacial. It was prior to the Holocene optimum, that was about 7.5 ka BP, so it was a period slightly cooler and drier than today. To suddenly go from a global average of 12 to 14C to an average of almost 30+C, that is a global average of 86F, is absurd.

Politesub53 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 5:17:12 PM)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25841134 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-admits-it-has-no-power-to-enforce-its-binding-2030-renewable-energy-targets-9078390.html

Tkman117 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 5:44:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Your arrogance is offputting. Lol, that's rich. This coming from the guy who claims he knows better than the IPCC and 97% of climate scientists world wide, good one XD quote: Some books are indeed non peer reviewed etc. Others are collections of previously published science. And in fact every single one of those provided links was previously published science. Which you didn't even bother to look up before making the assertion. so its pretty established that you have no interest in "science" you're just interested in defending your point of view. It is amusing that once again, even with title and author you couldn't find a paper, or find your own links. Here's the link to the last one I quoted, published in Progress in Physical Geography, since you, ya know, couldn't find it. http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/transit.html How'd it go asking your professor about D-O events, or the Younger Dragas/ preboreal temperature change? Lol, you did not provide links, you provided names of your sources. Links to research PAPERS, not books, were what I had specifically asked for. You could have gone ahead and cited textbooks for all I care, but it doesn't fall under the parameter which you asked me to set. Plus I'm not wasting my time looking up YOUR sources. In the last thread I spent the time searching for the papers for you, the least you could do is do the same for me. And I didn't ask the prof because 1) I'm still sick and I slept in this morning, and 2) because even if I hadn't slept in I wouldn't have asked because you didn't provide LINKS as I had initially asked as a "term" as you called it. And believe me I can quote said terms, so don't even try weaselling out again. Lastly, you seem to have an issue with the idea with CO2 being a greenhouse gas. I actually just did a lab today where we essentially proved that it was a green house gas (actually it was almost identical to a lab I did back in elementary school). I have the layout and I can even supply my lab write up and data when I finish it for class this weekend. So if you want the evidence for CO2's warming effect, it's on my computer and on my phone, and the graphs to visualize it will be put together in a few days time. In the meantime, here's the layout of the lab if you want to attempt it yourself. [image]local://upfiles/1422030/1D294E6EFB5A41CE937AE0EB1EE178AB.gif[/image]

Tkman117 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 5:46:24 PM)
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Tkman117 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 5:48:35 PM)
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Tkman117 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 5:50:28 PM)
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LookieNoNookie -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/22/2014 7:19:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen They're reducing the subsidies due to the high cost of closing their nuclear plants, as your own article clearly states in the lede. quote: Berlin (AFP) - Germany's new energy minister has outlined cuts in subsidies to producers of renewable energy as the country wrestles with soaring costs from its nuclear power exit, according to a document obtained by AFP Sunday Why must you lie at every opportunity? Dom (cough) Ken....do a bit more research. They're reducing their subsidies because their solar power subsidies were unparalleled in the entire globe (don't quote me but I recall reading some while back that a guy with a solar system could get the equivalent of 35 cents a KWH reversed back to the system AND 75% tax credits for setting up the system....i.e.,it actually cost 25 cents to set up a dollar's worth of solar device). In fewer than 5 years Germany went from negligible (as in, not even measurable) green energy to 35% of their power coming from green sources and it's increasing (as to %). Continuing that would have bankrupted their public power grid and sent regular grid pricing through the roof which would, naturally, forced more people even unsubsidized....to establish more green power. It's an interesting conundrum....if you create an environment wherein which the general populace can feed back source at 4 times their (subsidized) cost and the source (public power) can't then sell it's power for more than it costs (nuclear runs about 16 cents a KWH in Europe....buying back solar costs, as stated above about 35 cents....ergo, it's twice as expensive to repurchase power...which may not be being produced at an optimum time to resell it)....you can't pay for upkeep on the grid. And there's no current cost effective way to store what's created via solar. Yet, the incentives are there to minimize creating new source. Conundrum.

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