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RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 11:00:24 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

As I have often said; common courtesy, common decency and common sense aren't so common any more. ;-)


Those things are not showing of respect! Maybe your bar lower in what respect is.
I fail to see where I said they were, perhaps you could show show me? ;-)

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 11:22:58 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
I'm nearly 50 years old. But I guess age and youth is relative...
I'm 66, not that means anything . I was just thinking of my youth when I had all the answers and how now, I don't even know all the questions.



Then your response makes even less sense than it originally did.

quote:


quote:

Of course. They are MY definitions of a person that deserves respect. Why would I use anyone else's definition when mine has served me well for nearly half a century?
And that is why I said this; "Stop and take a look around, everyone here probably falls into a category that doesn't deserve respect in someone's mind, does that mean they don't deserve respect? Or does it mean we should try to be a little more open minded and try to treat everyone with at least a modicum of respect."

To show that people often have "definitions" that seem to work but they haven't thought out very well.


And that's when I pointed out that the value you place on respect is much, much lower than the value I place on it. Indeed, you seem to confuse 'respect' and 'courtesy'. But whatever,my definitions work - they don't mesh with yours, and that doesn't matter a jot. I believe your ideas are very muddled and poorly thought out and fundamentally, you are wrong. But that's fine - you go your way, I'll go mine and we'll both be happy.
quote:



quote:


Nope. We should treat everyone with COURTESY in the beginning, and only for as long as they are courteous in return. Respect should be earned, or it become valueless.



I think we view courtesy and respect differently, you feel they should be "earned", where I feel they part of the character of the person, such as "he is always so courteous and respectful". When you let others by their actions "change" who you are then you are submitting to their will.


Nonsense. I'm not submitting to anyone's will, I am exercising my own will. If I'm expected to treat everyone with respect, then that is agreeing with your (flawed, IMO) opinion and submitting to your will (and others with the same woolly mode of thinking). And trust me, that would never happen.

quote:


quote:

Would you rather be given a rare gold coin or a handful of cheap, common glitter?


I do not rate gifts by their value but by the love and sincerity of the giver. No gift would be grander to me than a child with that look of love in it's eyes handing me "a handful of cheap, common glitter".


I think my analogy made a loud 'whoosh' as it flew over your head.





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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 11:25:52 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
I don't know about anyone else but I am a submissive only to the dominant to whom I am attached.  I am not a submissive to all and need not display a submissive "attitude" to anyone else.  Sure someone can comment on my behavior anytime, these days being rude to strangers is the new discipline.  Fortunately I take that with a grain of salt, given that they mean nothing to me.
Pardon me, I don't seem to remember telling you to be submissive or submit to anyone.

As for a "submissive attitude", displaying it only for one person seems to make it more of an affectation than personal attribute but I guess you would know that better than me.

Also, what I said; "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude" was a hypothetical reply to someone who was being hypothetically disrespectful.
quote:

As for respect, respect is given to those who deserve it.  Otherwise simple courtesy is more than enough. 
Once again, it seems respect is being spoken of as some kind of object that is traded with others for more of the same.

Personally, I have always seen respect as a personal quality of character that one displays or not depending on whether it is part of their character or not.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 11:36:40 AM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I find it endlessly fascinating that someone who stands on the platform that everyone deserves a modicum of respect "walks the walk" by speaking in a condescending and holier than thou manner to everyone. Way to set the "respect for all" bar and then clearly limbo under it

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 11:37:11 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl



quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
And that would make me laugh even more. I'm only submissive to one man not every desktop dominant who thinks because he clicked a box on the internet that he is entitled to anything, so anyone who comments on my "submissive attitude" doesn't know me nor do they have the right to "teach" me about my attitude.

What a fine "submissive attitude", deciding for yourself to disrespect others. ;-)


Milesnmiles,

I think you are WAY too full of yourself. Why should she display a "submissive attitude" toward you or anyone else she is not in a dynamic with? She shouldn't. You are A Dominant, but you are NOT her Dominant.

NBMG
Pardon me, did I say anything about her needing to show a "submissive attitude" toward me?

Although, I did imply that if she was deciding for herself who to disrespect, her "submissive attitude" toward her Dom might be slipping but that's just a guess because I don't know her Dom.
;-)

(in reply to NiceButMeanGirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:29:05 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
Then your response makes even less sense than it originally did.
Really how so? That I'm older than you or that I find joy in the fact that there are still people young enough to think they have all the answers.
quote:

And that's when I pointed out that the value you place on respect is much, much lower than the value I place on it.
That is what you pointed out but I pointed out that it's not true.
quote:

Indeed, you seem to confuse 'respect' and 'courtesy'.
I am quite aware of what both mean.
quote:

But whatever, my definitions work - they don't mesh with yours, and that doesn't matter a jot.
A lot of definitions "work" but that doesn't mean that there aren't any other definitions, that work, that are better ways to run your life.
quote:

I believe your ideas are very muddled and poorly thought out and fundamentally, you are wrong. But that's fine - you go your way, I'll go mine and we'll both be happy.
Fine, say my "ideas are very muddled and poorly thought out and fundamentally, you are wrong" without attempting to point out in what way and then walk off saying we'll both be happy. Perhaps so, I apologize if my opposing view was upsetting to you.
quote:

Nonsense. I'm not submitting to anyone's will, I am exercising my own will. If I'm expected to treat everyone with respect, then that is agreeing with your (flawed, IMO) opinion and submitting to your will (and others with the same woolly mode of thinking). And trust me, that would never happen.
Actually that is exactly what you are doing. When you live your life according to the actions of others, you are allowing them to control who you are and what you do. Really, isn't that what you are saying when you say things like; "We should treat everyone with COURTESY in the beginning, and only for as long as they are courteous in return." Aren't you saying they made you stop being courteous by their actions?
quote:

I think my analogy made a loud 'whoosh' as it flew over your head.
Actually I believe it was my answer that you heard, whooshing over your head.
;-)

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:34:53 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
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From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Pardon me, did I say anything about her needing to show a "submissive attitude" toward me?

Although, I did imply that if she was deciding for herself who to disrespect, her "submissive attitude" toward her Dom might be slipping but that's just a guess because I don't know her Dom.
;-)


You did not say explicitly "toward you," no. You were generalizing that her attitude in general toward other people is directly related to her attitude toward her Dom, which is is not. You also implied, by commenting on it, that her attitude toward her Dom is your business, which it most assuredly is not.

NBMG

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:37:36 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

I find it endlessly fascinating that someone who stands on the platform that everyone deserves a modicum of respect "walks the walk" by speaking in a condescending and holier than thou manner to everyone. Way to set the "respect for all" bar and then clearly limbo under it
I find it endlessly fascinating that someone who makes statements like this fails to point out examples of my "condescending and holier than thou manner" so I might learn from it and change my ways.

;-)

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:41:45 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Pardon me, did I say anything about her needing to show a "submissive attitude" toward me?

Although, I did imply that if she was deciding for herself who to disrespect, her "submissive attitude" toward her Dom might be slipping but that's just a guess because I don't know her Dom.
;-)


You did not say explicitly "toward you," no. You were generalizing that her attitude in general toward other people is directly related to her attitude toward her Dom, which is is not. You also implied, by commenting on it, that her attitude toward her Dom is your business, which it most assuredly is not.

NBMG
I think I just said that but okay.

(in reply to NiceButMeanGirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:42:17 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Can't help you there, pal. You seem to be too impressed by the sound of your own voice to bother listening to anyone else. But you have no business or right to lecture other people on anything, let alone your feelings on their "submissive attitudes" and how they aren't living up to YOUR standards of respect. So we come full circle to my original statement about you speaking rather disrespectfully to others.

As I said, way to set the respect bar and then half-ass your way under it

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 1/25/2014 12:56:45 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:46:51 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Really how so? That I'm older than you or that I find joy in the fact that there are still people young enough to think they have all the answers.


STILL missing the point, bless your heart

quote:



That is what you pointed out but I pointed out that it's not true.


Yes, but you're wrong.

quote:


I am quite aware of what both mean.



I don't think you do, but bless your heart for trying to convince me otherwise.


quote:

A lot of definitions "work" but that doesn't mean that there aren't any other definitions, that work, that are better ways to run your life.



Again, you lack comprehension. I didn't say there weren't any other definitions, I said they weren't MY definitions and in my world it's my definitions that matter. But well done you for trying!

quote:

Fine, say my "ideas are very muddled and poorly thought out and fundamentally, you are wrong" without attempting to point out in what way and then walk off saying we'll both be happy. Perhaps so, I apologize if my opposing view was upsetting to you.



Upsetting? Sweetie, you don't matter to me at all, apart from as a source of amusement, so you're woolly arguments and silly little ripostes have absolutely no power to upset me.


quote:

Actually that is exactly what you are doing. When you live your life according to the actions of others, you are allowing them to control who you are and what you do. Really, isn't that what you are saying when you say things like; "We should treat everyone with COURTESY in the beginning, and only for as long as they are courteous in return." Aren't you saying they made you stop being courteous by their actions?


Sweetie - I think you need to read that again. And then again, until you realise how silly it sounds. But bless your heart again for persevering with your cute little line of logic.


quote:

Actually I believe it was my answer that you heard, whooshing over your head.




I think this is an attempted variation on the 'your ma is fat' - 'no YOUR ma is fat!' conversation favoured by many school children. Good for you for giving it a try though!

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:49:39 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		nailed it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

Can't help you there, pal. You seem to be too impressed by the sound of your own voice to bother listening to anyone else.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:50:35 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

Can't help you there, pal. You seem to be too impressed by the sound of your own voice to bother listening to anyone else.



I agree....

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:53:45 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline 		It seems like I've stirred up a hornets nest with my "condescending and holier than thou manner".

I hope no one minds if I move on and continue to live my life showing a modicum of respect and courtesy to others even if some think they are not worthy and I shouldn't.

May you enjoy your discussion without my opposing opinion. ;-)

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 12:57:59 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

I find it endlessly fascinating that someone who stands on the platform that everyone deserves a modicum of respect "walks the walk" by speaking in a condescending and holier than thou manner to everyone. Way to set the "respect for all" bar and then clearly limbo under it
I find it endlessly fascinating that someone who makes statements like this fails to point out examples of my "condescending and holier than thou manner" so I might learn from it and change my ways.

;-)



This was not adressed to me but I feel compelled to respond and give you an example.
How apt that you are asking to be disciplined:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

But I will discipline as necessary for misconduct and especially for anyone that serves me and does not respect themselves.


Until someone is yours, you don't have the right to discipline anyone. If someone thought I disrespected them and tried to discipline me when we weren't in a dynamic, I would laugh at them.
Even if a person is not in a "dynamic" with you, that does not give you the "right" to disrespect someone. So if you disrespect someone, whether in a "dynamic" or not, you can expect some discipline.

Just a note of explanation, discipline means teach, which could be as simple as saying; "Looks like you could use some work on controlling your speech" or "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude".



If you are not in a dynamic with someone, you should not be rebuking them on whether or not their attitude is submissive (or submissive enough).

My "submissive attitude" is connected to specificity.
I am submissive to [my] Master.
While for the most part do not go out of my way to be rude to anyone, I am not submissive to other men, whether or not thay have hung their hats on the dom hook.

And since you asked: your coaching other dominants on how they should behave for their benefit is exhibiting a "condescending and holier than thou manner".

I realise that you do not see yourself as coming across that way, but since several people are perceiving your behavior in the same way, I think you likely have a blind spot regarding how you present yourself.

I think it is surprising to you to read that you are coming across as arrogant.
If you want to present yourself differently, that is always your option.

edit: typo

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 1:01:33 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

I hope no one minds if I move on and continue to live my life showing a modicum of respect and courtesy to others even if some think they are not worthy and I shouldn't.









Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 1:15:55 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
I don't know about anyone else but I am a submissive only to the dominant to whom I am attached.  I am not a submissive to all and need not display a submissive "attitude" to anyone else.  Sure someone can comment on my behavior anytime, these days being rude to strangers is the new discipline.  Fortunately I take that with a grain of salt, given that they mean nothing to me.
Pardon me, I don't seem to remember telling you to be submissive or submit to anyone.

As for a "submissive attitude", displaying it only for one person seems to make it more of an affectation than personal attribute but I guess you would know that better than me.

Also, what I said; "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude" was a hypothetical reply to someone who was being hypothetically disrespectful.
quote:

As for respect, respect is given to those who deserve it.  Otherwise simple courtesy is more than enough. 
Once again, it seems respect is being spoken of as some kind of object that is traded with others for more of the same.

Personally, I have always seen respect as a personal quality of character that one displays or not depending on whether it is part of their character or not.



Are you serious? You think that displaying a submissive attitude to one person makes it an "affectation" more than a personal attribute?

Wow, what planet do you live on?

As a woman, I have many attributes and complexities.

Just one of which is being submissive. I am not the least bit submissive in my daily outside life, I am only submissive in my private life to ONE person who I feel a connection with.

If I had a submissive attitude to everyone I would never get anything done in life, I would be disrespecting myself and any future Dom if I gave myself away that easily and I would not be me.

To say that respecting yourself and not being submissive to the world is an affectation, is the height of disrespect, is discourteous and smacks one true way ism regarding women and submission.

I find it ironic that you are ranting about respect when that is most disrespectful thing on this thread, and it was said by you.

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 3:24:56 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
Can't help you there, pal. You seem to be too impressed by the sound of your own voice to bother listening to anyone else.
I have "listened" to everything that has been said, including this.

quote:

But you have no business or right to lecture other people on anything, let alone your feelings on their "submissive attitudes" and how they aren't living up to YOUR standards of respect.
Pardon, Lecture? Aren't you the one lecturing me right now?

Quite frankly isn't this suppose to be an objective discussion on respect. Isn't holding a differing opinion allowed?

quote:

So we come full circle to my original statement about you speaking rather disrespectfully to others.
If I told you that you were talking through your hat, I would expect you to ask me to show you the hat. Examples please.

quote:

As I said, way to set the respect bar and then half-ass your way under it
Yep and expect you to say it again and again and again. Examples please.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 4:05:45 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
STILL missing the point, bless your heart
Cute but you're still not saying why you think so.
quote:

Yes, but you're wrong.
So you're going to go with; "Oh no, it's not"
quote:

I don't think you do, but bless your heart for trying to convince me otherwise.
Cute, so you're going to go with; "Oh no, you don't"

Starting to sound a little 3rd grade school yard don't you think?
quote:

Again, you lack comprehension. I didn't say there weren't any other definitions, I said they weren't MY definitions and in my world it's my definitions that matter. But well done you for trying!
I don't remember ever saying you did but then I lack "lack comprehension". I merely implied that some people actually look at their definitions from time to time to see if there are better definitions that could work better but heaven forbid if you got the slightest impression that I thought your definitions don't matter to you.
quote:

Upsetting? Sweetie, you don't matter to me at all, apart from as a source of amusement, so you're woolly arguments and silly little ripostes have absolutely no power to upset me.
Great, wouldn't want to upset such a towering intellect that sees my simple attempts at conversation as woolly arguments and silly little ripostes muddled and poorly thought out and fundamentally wrong and a source of amusement and someone said I was the one who had a condescending and holier than thou manner.
quote:

Sweetie - I think you need to read that again. And then again, until you realise how silly it sounds. But bless your heart again for persevering with your cute little line of logic.
Isn't that a bit condescending, oh wait it can't be you, I'm the only one that is condescending in this thread.
quote:

I think this is an attempted variation on the 'your ma is fat' - 'no YOUR ma is fat!' conversation favoured by many school children. Good for you for giving it a try though!
I merely turned your comment back on you, so aren't you saying that you started the childish school yard conversation.

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Respect ..... - 1/25/2014 4:16:48 PM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
If you are not in a dynamic with someone, you should not be rebuking them on whether or not their attitude is submissive (or submissive enough).
Am I missing something? Isn't the whole thing a hypothetical situation? Someone hypothetically disrespected me, there was no reason given, just that someone treated me rudely. Honestly, what would you do in that situation? Do you really stand there and say; oh, you are in a relationship with someone, I better not get involved? I better not tell you that you are being rude?

quote:

My "submissive attitude" is connected to specificity.
I am submissive to [my] Master.
Great
quote:

While for the most part do not go out of my way to be rude to anyone, I am not submissive to other men, whether or not thay have hung their hats on the dom hook.
If that is okay with you and your Dom, again great, go in peace.

(Although I have to ask, why are you bringing up your relationship in this discussion, then taking anything I say after that, as a comment on your relationship and not on the subject at hand.)

Anyway as a Dom I believe differently, to me, although submissiveness is a inborn quality, I believe it can be strengthened with use. So if a sub is submissive to me only and is rude and disrespectful to everyone else then I feel an opportunity is being missed to strengthen her submissiveness. Now I am not talking about her submitting to everyone in the room and becoming their sub for the night. But I believe that showing deference to others broadens and strengthens the quality of submission within her.

quote:

And since you asked: your coaching other dominants on how they should behave for their benefit is exhibiting a "condescending and holier than thou manner".
Just how, is talking about what I believe and answering questions that have been posed to me coaching and not just holding a conversation? And if it is coaching, then wouldn't they be coaching me, that what I believe is just "wrong"?

quote:

I realise that you do not see yourself as coming across that way, but since several people are perceiving your behavior in the same way, I think you likely have a blind spot regarding how you present yourself.
Oh, I thank you for your counsel but please don't mistake numbers for correctness.

quote:

I think it is surprising to you to read that you are coming across as arrogant.
Not much surprises me, especially being called arrogant when I disagree with commonly held beliefs.
quote:

If you want to present yourself differently, that is always your option.
Thank you again, it seems all I have to do is agree everyone whether I believe it or not.
;-)

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 60
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