RE: Respect .....

RE: Respect ..... (Full Version)

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Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 4:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles I hope no one minds if I move on and continue to live my life showing a modicum of respect and courtesy to others even if some think they are not worthy and I shouldn't. [image]local://upfiles/1427212/920C6CAC800C481D8BFCDCCD471E9AC9.jpg[/image] respect (rɪˈspɛkt) — n 1. an attitude of deference, admiration, or esteem; regard 2. the state of being honoured or esteemed 3. a detail, point, or characteristic; particular: he differs in some respects from his son 4. reference or relation (esp in the phrases in respect of , with respect to ) 5. polite or kind regard; consideration: respect for people's feelings 6. ( often plural ) an expression of esteem or regard (esp in the phrase pay one's respects ) — vb 7. to have an attitude of esteem towards; show or have respect for: to respect one's elders 8. to pay proper attention to; not violate: to respect Swiss neutrality 9. to show consideration for; treat courteously or kindly 10. archaic to concern or refer to courtesy (ˈkɜːtɪsɪ) — n , pl -sies 1. politeness; good manners 2. a courteous gesture or remark 3. favour or consent (esp in the phrase by courtesy of ) 4. See also courtesy title common consent as opposed to right (esp in the phrase by courtesy ) 5. an archaic spelling of curtsy

KnightofMists -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 4:26:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles It seems like I've stirred up a hornets nest with my "condescending and holier than thou manner". I hope no one minds if I move on and continue to live my life showing a modicum of respect and courtesy to others even if some think they are not worthy and I shouldn't. May you enjoy your discussion without my opposing opinion. ;-) Yeah you bet. Lmao

SeekingTrinity -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 4:58:06 PM)
I'm still waiting for the promised flounce [:)]

angelikaJ -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 5:05:17 PM)
I have seen you refer to this a couple of times: quote: I disagree with commonly held beliefs. It is coming across a bit like you are some sort of victim on this thread because you are the minority. It isn't your beliefs that comes across as condescending. It is your delivery of said beliefs; how you choose to present them. If you wished to, you could change that.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 5:13:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I don't know about anyone else but I am a submissive only to the dominant to whom I am attached. I am not a submissive to all and need not display a submissive "attitude" to anyone else. Sure someone can comment on my behavior anytime, these days being rude to strangers is the new discipline. Fortunately I take that with a grain of salt, given that they mean nothing to me. Pardon me, I don't seem to remember telling you to be submissive or submit to anyone. As for a "submissive attitude", displaying it only for one person seems to make it more of an affectation than personal attribute but I guess you would know that better than me. Also, what I said; "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude" was a hypothetical reply to someone who was being hypothetically disrespectful. quote: As for respect, respect is given to those who deserve it. Otherwise simple courtesy is more than enough. Once again, it seems respect is being spoken of as some kind of object that is traded with others for more of the same. Personally, I have always seen respect as a personal quality of character that one displays or not depending on whether it is part of their character or not. Are you serious? You think that displaying a submissive attitude to one person makes it an "affectation" more than a personal attribute? Wow, what planet do you live on? As a woman, I have many attributes and complexities. Just one of which is being submissive. I am not the least bit submissive in my daily outside life, I am only submissive in my private life to ONE person who I feel a connection with. If I had a submissive attitude to everyone I would never get anything done in life, I would be disrespecting myself and any future Dom if I gave myself away that easily and I would not be me. To say that respecting yourself and not being submissive to the world is an affectation, is the height of disrespect, is discourteous and smacks one true way ism regarding women and submission. I find it ironic that you are ranting about respect when that is most disrespectful thing on this thread, and it was said by you. Really? I state my opinion and you think I am attacking you and your life style. First, I thought this discussion was about a hypothetical situation, when did it come to be about anyone, let alone you? Next, I don't believe I ever said anything about anyone giving themselves away easily to everybody, unless it was instruction from your Master/Dom. Now let's look at the actual statement I made; "As for a "submissive attitude", displaying it only for one person seems to make it more of an affectation than personal attribute but I guess you would know that better than me." first, note I use the term "submissive attitude" the use to me is saying something mental and not physical, and so is not talking about "giving themselves away easily". Next, the word "seems" should tell you that it may not be true in all cases and may not be true in any case. It is just my opinion. Next, the use of "make it more of" is saying that, not that it is an affectation, but that it could seem more of a affectation than something else Next, the use of "personal attribute". A personal attribute is something that is natural to someone and is displayed to everyone. For example, kindness, if it is displayed to only one person can that person be described as kind? But what if, although that person shows kindness to one person more than anyone else, is also kind to all, wouldn't that make kindness a personal attribute of that person? Last I say; "I guess you would know that better than me", here I say that I am not a sub and that I would listen to would what subs would say. Now honestly are you here to discuss the subject or just to say; "I find it ironic that you are ranting about respect when that is most disrespectful thing on this thread, and it was said by you." ;-)

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 5:15:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity I'm still waiting for the promised flounce [:)] Hold your horses, I'm old and slow. ;-)

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 5:27:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ I have seen you refer to this a couple of times: quote: I disagree with commonly held beliefs. It is coming across a bit like you are some sort of victim on this thread because you are the minority. I don't feel a victim. I have only said it because it seems that the common belief in the thread is not mine and as of yet no one has said they have the same or even similar beliefs, so the statement seems at this point to be simply a statement of fact. quote: It isn't your beliefs that comes across as condescending. It is your delivery of said beliefs; how you choose to present them. Thanks again, you seem to be trying to be helpful. The trouble is just saying this is not helpful. quote: If you wished to, you could change that. The problem is what I'm hearing is the old Bob Dylan song; Look out kid It's something you did God knows when but you're doing it again ;-)

DesFIP -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 7:10:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles As for a "submissive attitude", displaying it only for one person seems to make it more of an affectation than personal attribute but I guess you would know that better than me. Personally, I have always seen respect as a personal quality of character that one displays or not depending on whether it is part of their character or not. Actually, it's part of the cornerstone of our dynamic that the only person I submit to is him. But if you want to tell him that he's a bad dominant because he doesn't demand I bow down to the whole world, feel free. He'll just laugh. As far as your second paragraph, nonsense. You respect Idi Amin, Stalin and Hitler? Because I sure as hell don't. Nor do they deserve it. And if you admire and esteem them, then you have no chance of earning any respect from me.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 9:00:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DRAKE326 But I will discipline as necessary for misconduct and especially for anyone that serves me and does not respect themselves.These are just my thoughts and an opinion or two. I would love to see you attempt to discipline a number of the ladies that are here on the boards. Oh yes. I would indeed enjoy that little fiasco. Come on! I double dog dare you! *eta - yes, I know you changed that later... but ohhhh the giggle I had at the idea.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 9:11:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss quote: ORIGINAL: DRAKE326 But I will discipline as necessary for misconduct and especially for anyone that serves me and does not respect themselves.These are just my thoughts and an opinion or two. I would love to see you attempt to discipline a number of the ladies that are here on the boards. Oh yes. I would indeed enjoy that little fiasco. Come on! I double dog dare you! *eta - yes, I know you changed that later... but ohhhh the giggle I had at the idea. I can just hear Steve Irwin narrating this one... See the wild lion, so proud, powerful, an majestic... Wot's that there? A heard of gazelles. The lion looks at his prey, stalks his prey, readies himself to pounce on his prey... OMFG! Those are carnivorous gazelle! Gawd no... The blood, the horror of it all... See the carnivorous gazelle, so proud, so powerful, so giddily bathing in leonine blood. Jus sayin Exiled

sunshinemiss -> RE: Respect ..... (1/25/2014 10:58:36 PM)
<<<< definitely not a gazelle!

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 4:19:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Actually, it's part of the cornerstone of our dynamic that the only person I submit to is him. But if you want to tell him that he's a bad dominant because he doesn't demand I bow down to the whole world, feel free. He'll just laugh. I am not trying to get you to change your dynamic. I am just discussing the way I look at things. As for bowing down to the whole world, that is not what I was saying or asking. To me the showing of deference or a modicum of respect does not entail bowing down, although supposedly in Japan everyone bows to everyone else for that very reason. quote: As far as your second paragraph, nonsense. You respect Idi Amin, Stalin and Hitler? Because I sure as hell don't. Nor do they deserve it. You have picked a sorry lot indeed and in these cases, I would probably instruct my submissive there is no need to show deference. quote: And if you admire and esteem them, then you have no chance of earning any respect from me. I have always thought of all humans as being equal and none are better than another and that they should be treated that way. We all have done things that we are not proud of but should we be judged on the weak points of our lives? Yes, the people you mentioned, I find it indeed difficult to see a reason to admire and esteem them but then I have never met them either. Tell me please, where is the line to be drawn? Okay let's say these are not deserving of any respect but since they are not among the people we meet on an everyday basis, who do we select as unworthy in our everyday lives? ;-)

angelikaJ -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 6:00:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ If you are not in a dynamic with someone, you should not be rebuking them on whether or not their attitude is submissive (or submissive enough). Am I missing something? Isn't the whole thing a hypothetical situation? Someone hypothetically disrespected me, there was no reason given, just that someone treated me rudely. Honestly, what would you do in that situation? Do you really stand there and say; oh, you are in a relationship with someone, I better not get involved? I better not tell you that you are being rude? quote: My "submissive attitude" is connected to specificity. I am submissive to [my] Master. Great quote: While for the most part do not go out of my way to be rude to anyone, I am not submissive to other men, whether or not thay have hung their hats on the dom hook. If that is okay with you and your Dom, again great, go in peace. (Although I have to ask, why are you bringing up your relationship in this discussion, then taking anything I say after that, as a comment on your relationship and not on the subject at hand.) Anyway as a Dom I believe differently, to me, although submissiveness is a inborn quality, I believe it can be strengthened with use. So if a sub is submissive to me only and is rude and disrespectful to everyone else then I feel an opportunity is being missed to strengthen her submissiveness. Now I am not talking about her submitting to everyone in the room and becoming their sub for the night. But I believe that showing deference to others broadens and strengthens the quality of submission within her. quote: And since you asked: your coaching other dominants on how they should behave for their benefit is exhibiting a "condescending and holier than thou manner". Just how, is talking about what I believe and answering questions that have been posed to me coaching and not just holding a conversation? And if it is coaching, then wouldn't they be coaching me, that what I believe is just "wrong"? quote: I realise that you do not see yourself as coming across that way, but since several people are perceiving your behavior in the same way, I think you likely have a blind spot regarding how you present yourself. Oh, I thank you for your counsel but please don't mistake numbers for correctness. quote: I think it is surprising to you to read that you are coming across as arrogant. Not much surprises me, especially being called arrogant when I disagree with commonly held beliefs. quote: If you want to present yourself differently, that is always your option. Thank you again, it seems all I have to do is agree everyone whether I believe it or not. ;-) I was not bringing my relationship into it. I was explaining that my submission is specific to Him.... in other words, I would not accept with grace someone else telling me that I needed to work on "my submissive attitude". You believe submission is something innate, and there are plenty of women who post on here regarding their submissive tendencies that make them deferential to everyone they meet. I discovered a 'specialness' within specificity. That is what brings meaning to me: not that I am a slave but that I am *His* slave. As for hypothetical perceived rude encounters: When random strangers are rude to you, what do you tell them? What if the rude behavior was directed towards someone else? If you were in a gathering of fellow BDSM folks, and you perceived a dominant person was rude, you would tell him or her as well? Personally, I think telling a woman you are not in a relationship with _who happens to be submissive_ either of your offered solutions: " "Looks like you could use some work on controlling your speech" or "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude"."to be rude. If you perceive her to be rude to you then you approach her as a human being. Anything else is presumptuous. btw: The actual subject in the OP was primarily focused not on rude behavior towards others but submissive women who disrespect themselves and how the OP deals with that. The subject evolved into a discussion of does one have the right to discipline those one is not in a dynamic with based on the OP's word choices. edit: formatting and clarity.

Kana -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 6:09:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: Kana ... I point blank don't/won't/can't and don't wanna respect everybody.Let's face it,some folks just ain't worth it. I respect those who deserve it. ... Everyone should be given a modicum of respect, if not for them then for you, showing respect for others makes you a better person even if the other person doesn't deserve it. Nope. There are animals that walk the planet in human skin.I treat them like the maggots they are and in doing so, respect myself. I've been in prison my man. On this point, I simply don't budge

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 8:41:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ I was not bringing my relationship into it. I was explaining that my submission is specific to Him.... in other words, I would not accept with grace someone else telling me that I needed to work on "my submissive attitude". Okay, great but when you are explaining by mentioning your relationship and I comment on what you explained, I shouldn't be given flack for "interfering with your relationship dynamic" should I? quote: You believe submission is something innate, and there are plenty of women who post on here regarding their submissive tendencies that make them deferential to everyone they meet. Yes, I believe that it can be something innate. quote: I discovered a 'specialness' within specificity. I understand that and believe that is true in almost all cases. But I believe that if someone is really nice to me, that doesn't mean she can't be nice to others In fact I believe that her being nice to others will more than likely make her able to be nicer to me. Likewise I believe that if someone is my sub, that doesn't mean she can't be deferential to others. In fact I believe that what she learns about being a little submissive, not submitting, to all others will return to me in a better understanding of how to be submissive to me. That is what brings meaning to me: not that I am a slave but that I am *His* slave.I appreciate that, I too am of the "My slave only" nature, I just feel that My slave can learn things about service by thinking about how she might serve others. quote: As for hypothetical perceived rude encounters: When random strangers are rude to you, what do you tell them? What if the rude behavior was directed towards someone else? If you were in a gathering of fellow BDSM folks, and you perceived a dominant person was rude, you would tell him or her as well? I am of a mindset that most people are rude without realizing it and a simple reminder of some sort is all that is necessary, so yes, I would tell them. quote: Personally, I think telling a woman you are not in a relationship with _who happens to be submissive_ either of your offered solutions: ""Looks like you could use some work on controlling your speech" or "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude"."to be rude. Again this is a case where she was hypothetically rude to me first. quote: If you perceive her to be rude to you then you approach her as a human being. Anything else is presumptuous. I approach everyone as a human being but what do you suggest? What would not seem a rude or presumptuous reply to someone who had been rude to you? Or what if she had been rude to your Dom? quote: btw: The actual subject in the OP was primarily focused not on rude behavior towards others but submissive women who disrespect themselves and how the OP deals with that. The subject evolved into a discussion of does one have the right to discipline those one is not in a dynamic with based on the OP's word choices. Thanks for clarifying that.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 8:42:53 AM)
PS Please everybody, stop assuming that every time I use the word submissive it means that I am talking about my slave/sub having sex with someone, I am not. I view submissive as an attitude or quality and not a sex act or making themselves available for sex for that matter.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 9:02:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana Nope. There are animals that walk the planet in human skin.I treat them like the maggots they are and in doing so, respect myself. I've been in prison my man. On this point, I simply don't budge I think angelikaJ already made that point in the post right above yours. But I'll ask you as well, where do you draw the line? Murders, rapists, how about bank robbery or gran theft auto, what if it was just a teen that stole a car for a joy ride, my brother did that and spent 5 years in the pen for it, no respect for him? What about my other brother who spent time in prison for bouncing checks, no respect for him? They both happened to be excellent fathers, respect for that? It's hard for me to be so black and white, I've never found people to be so simple to categorize.

angelikaJ -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 9:20:39 AM)
quote: Personally, I think telling a woman you are not in a relationship with _who happens to be submissive_ either of your offered solutions: " "Looks like you could use some work on controlling your speech" or "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude"."to be rude. If you perceive her to be rude to you then you approach her as a human being. Anything else is presumptuous. (This is one connected thought btw; you responded as if you see it to be separate points) quote: Personally, I think telling a woman you are not in a relationship with _who happens to be submissive_ either of your offered solutions: ""Looks like you could use some work on controlling your speech" or "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude"."to be rude. You stated in reply "Again this is a case where she was hypothetically rude to me first. " Which implies that it is okay for you to be rude to her because she was rude first? quote: If you perceive her to be rude to you then you approach her as a human being. Anything else is presumptuous. "I approach everyone as a human being but what do you suggest? What would not seem a rude or presumptuous reply to someone who had been rude to you? Or what if she had been rude to your Dom? " As a human being. Not as a submissive woman who needed reminders on how to behave appropriately submissively. That is what I am objecting to: that because she may identify as submissive seems to make you believe that you have a right to admonish her regarding her submissive behavior. Again, a reminder- we are not talking about a woman you are in an agreed upon dynamic with. edit: clarity and format issue

Missokyst -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 9:33:59 AM)
A lot of us who do this are not saying submissive is a sex act. For many of us submission to our mates is a relationship dynamic where our mates desires take priority over ours. We submit. One might do that as a providing themselves as a canvas for pain, one might do that as getting up early to warm the house before their partner gets out of bed. Submission is not just sex. You may view submission as an attitude overall things. I would view that as someone who would not stand up for themselves. I am submissive to my mate. I am not submissive to the world. The men who have attracted me and whom I have attracted prefer it that way. No one is saying we must be rude, what we are saying is that your idea is not our own. I would find your way stifling. Your statement below is rude and presumptuous and seems to be based on your skewed view of submissives needing to be doormats in order to increase their submissive behavior toward you. As no one here seems to be attached to you, their attitude should not be your issue. quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: But I will discipline as necessary for misconduct and especially for anyone that serves me and does not respect themselves. Until someone is yours, you don't have the right to discipline anyone. If someone thought I disrespected them and tried to discipline me when we weren't in a dynamic, I would laugh at them. Even if a person is not in a "dynamic" with you, that does not give you the "right" to disrespect someone. So if you disrespect someone, whether in a "dynamic" or not, you can expect some discipline. Just a note of explanation, discipline means teach, which could be as simple as saying; "Looks like you could use some work on controlling your speech" or "It seems you could use some work on your submissive attitude". quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles PS Please everybody, stop assuming that every time I use the word submissive it means that I am talking about my slave/sub having sex with someone, I am not. I view submissive as an attitude or quality and not a sex act or making themselves available for sex for that matter.

Missokyst -> RE: Respect ..... (1/26/2014 9:40:39 AM)
Maybe this will help... quote: ORIGINAL: DRAKE326 But of course it later refers to someone serving me. I woild never presume to discipline anyone not cotracted or negotiated with me. Please excuse any confusion. You are right to be indignant about what was perceived to be my presumption. First and fore most I use self discipline and would never bother someone elses partner unless it was agreed to mutually. Sorry again for any confusion. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

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