RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 2:24:14 PM

EdBowie

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Not everybody subscribes to the Daniel Boone school of supply.

Now, what rational reason would there be for banning 10 rounds? Or 12?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

I have a hard time taking any pro-gun/enthusiast seriously when he/she refers to the unit that holds the ammunition as a "clip". The correct word is, and always has been, "magazine".
The title for this thread should read "The Dreaded 30-round Magazine".

And yes, I DO own guns. I enjoy shooting at the range. I have no use for hunting as I have several well-stocked grocery stores within walking distance. Not to mention there isn't really much "sport" in killing a dear with the typical hunting rifle.

I have a pair of 8-round mags for my .22 rifle and a single 9-round mag for my Glock 34. That's as many shots as I need to take at any given moment. Can anyone give a rational explanation as to why you would ever need more?

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 2:26:03 PM

EdBowie

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Thanks for ignoring the OP topic entirely in order to share your desire to have other people die, 'new member'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cactustree

There is always such heated debate surrounding the ownership and use of weapons, even amongst just those who own and glorify them.

Recommend all local gun owners to stand in circular groups, and discharge thier weapons towards the centre.

We can all enjoy that, gun owners or otherwise.

ct

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 2:27:19 PM

mnottertail

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I would think cost of rounds. And my adjoining neighbors to my farm on the south west. They are starting a goddamn lead mine over there, every deer season it sounds like world war 3 and I go over and ask em what they got, and they say, well, we saw a couple and took some shots, but didnt get anything.

I am only in fear of my life from the lead poissoning, since they are shooting into the swamp that I am sure becomes our aquifer.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 4:07:52 PM

EdBowie

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Yeah, I've lived out in 'huntin country' a few times, and experienced the fusillade effect.

That's why I now live in the city in a small place where only 3 or 4 home invaders at a time could possibly squeeze into my bedroom... so I figure a couple of 12 round mags for home defense is quite rational.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I would think cost of rounds. And my adjoining neighbors to my farm on the south west. They are starting a goddamn lead mine over there, every deer season it sounds like world war 3 and I go over and ask em what they got, and they say, well, we saw a couple and took some shots, but didnt get anything.

I am only in fear of my life from the lead poissoning, since they are shooting into the swamp that I am sure becomes our aquifer.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 4:17:46 PM

MasterCaneman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I love it when I read about the dreaded ".12 gauge shotgun". As near as I can figure it, it'd be roughly the same diameter as a swizzle stick. To be helpful, here's a quick and e-z guide for all those gun-grabber types:

sorry but you have it backwards.
a .12 gauge shotgun would mean that it would be a cannon with each cannonball weighing about 8 pounds

No, 12 gauge used to mean 12 balls per pound of lead, or 1.3 ounces each whereas a .12 gauge would be on the order of 2 grams per ball, roughly the size of #7 or #8 shot.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 4:23:04 PM

MasterCaneman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I would think cost of rounds. And my adjoining neighbors to my farm on the south west. They are starting a goddamn lead mine over there, every deer season it sounds like world war 3 and I go over and ask em what they got, and they say, well, we saw a couple and took some shots, but didnt get anything.

I am only in fear of my life from the lead poissoning, since they are shooting into the swamp that I am sure becomes our aquifer.

It's not the metallic lead so much as the lead azide in the primers that'll get ya. Fired shot is pretty stable in its terminal state. It's when it starts getting into dust-sized particles and smaller that it becomes an issue.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 4:37:53 PM

inmate822210

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A few comments--

The problem with shotguns and rifles are the force generated by their blast, not necessarily their gauge. If you add to that that shotguns effectively have a blast radius within a particular range, you have more chances at whatever size trajectory hitting a vital artery or organ. A BB through the ephemeral artery would kill someone within minutes, and a shotgun allows the FPS to penetrate the body that far. A rifle and shotgun basically disregard any sort of body armor (especially Kevlar vests), too.

And then the assault rifles--even with a maximum capacity magazine, you are really talking a 4-6 second maximum firing time per magazine at full auto. Auto-fire isn't really used for anything but cover fire because of it's accuracy and the fact that it's just a pure waste of ammunition in most practical situations.

It would be my opinion that the size of a clip doesn't have any particular bearing on the effectiveness of the weapon. Accuracy, motive and intent seem much more relevant. If someone is shooting up a school, it wouldn't make a difference vs. unarmed civilians if they have to reload at 15 or keep shooting at 30. A skilled shooter takes what... seconds to reload?

I'm not sure what I'm adding to the conversation, but it's just some practicality about guns. There are a lot of myths. Silencers don't exist for example. They are flash suppressors that help snipers hide their position. The sound at most drops to 130-150 decibels whereas anything over 75 can cause hearing loss. The guns are still loud! 30 lbs military body armor might as well be a Hanes t-shirt at ranges of 14 feet or less, and that armor cost thousands of dollars. And cars don't explode from a bullet hitting a car's fuel tank... automakers aren't out there leaving themselves open to such simple liabilities as a trajectory penetrating their fuel cell.

Perhaps there are legislative and constitutional arguments to be made. Does anyone need an assault rifle promised to them by the constitution? Probably not as you won't win vs. our police and military powers via revolution anyway, which is why the provision was there in the first place (to let citizens be armed against government oppression and abuse). But the fact stands: it isn't the guns; it's the people with the guns.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 4:44:23 PM

mnottertail

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all of it is ok, except the ephemeral artery. you mean femoral. my arteries are not transitive and fleeting.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 7:00:24 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I love it when I read about the dreaded ".12 gauge shotgun". As near as I can figure it, it'd be roughly the same diameter as a swizzle stick. To be helpful, here's a quick and e-z guide for all those gun-grabber types:

sorry but you have it backwards.
a .12 gauge shotgun would mean that it would be a cannon with each cannonball weighing about 8 pounds

No, 12 gauge used to mean 12 balls per pound of lead, or 1.3 ounces each whereas a .12 gauge would be on the order of 2 grams per ball, roughly the size of #7 or #8 shot.

That would have required a compete change in the shotgun "caliber" assignment.
However which ever one of us is right your original point stands.
One is two small to do anything.
and the other is a Revolutionary War era cannon

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 7:02:50 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inmate822210

A few comments--

The problem with shotguns and rifles are the force generated by their blast, not necessarily their gauge. If you add to that that shotguns effectively have a blast radius within a particular range, you have more chances at whatever size trajectory hitting a vital artery or organ. A BB through the ephemeral artery would kill someone within minutes, and a shotgun allows the FPS to penetrate the body that far. A rifle and shotgun basically disregard any sort of body armor (especially Kevlar vests), too.

And then the assault rifles--even with a maximum capacity magazine, you are really talking a 4-6 second maximum firing time per magazine at full auto. Auto-fire isn't really used for anything but cover fire because of it's accuracy and the fact that it's just a pure waste of ammunition in most practical situations.

It would be my opinion that the size of a clip doesn't have any particular bearing on the effectiveness of the weapon. Accuracy, motive and intent seem much more relevant. If someone is shooting up a school, it wouldn't make a difference vs. unarmed civilians if they have to reload at 15 or keep shooting at 30. A skilled shooter takes what... seconds to reload?

I'm not sure what I'm adding to the conversation, but it's just some practicality about guns. There are a lot of myths. Silencers don't exist for example. They are flash suppressors that help snipers hide their position. The sound at most drops to 130-150 decibels whereas anything over 75 can cause hearing loss. The guns are still loud! 30 lbs military body armor might as well be a Hanes t-shirt at ranges of 14 feet or less, and that armor cost thousands of dollars. And cars don't explode from a bullet hitting a car's fuel tank... automakers aren't out there leaving themselves open to such simple liabilities as a trajectory penetrating their fuel cell.

Perhaps there are legislative and constitutional arguments to be made. Does anyone need an assault rifle promised to them by the constitution? Probably not as you won't win vs. our police and military powers via revolution anyway, which is why the provision was there in the first place (to let citizens be armed against government oppression and abuse). But the fact stands: it isn't the guns; it's the people with the guns.

Shotguns (other than some slugs) are ineffective against body armor, see LA shootout.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 8:49:41 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inmate822210

Perhaps there are legislative and constitutional arguments to be made. Does anyone need an assault rifle promised to them by the constitution? Probably not as you won't win vs. our police and military powers via revolution anyway, which is why the provision was there in the first place (to let citizens be armed against government oppression and abuse). But the fact stands: it isn't the guns; it's the people with the guns.

Welcome aboard, Inmate.

Something to keep in mind, when it comes to full-blown insurrection, is that our military swears the oath based on defending the Constitution, and that there tend to be a lot more former military in the country, than there are active duty, and with hundreds of millions of firearms in private hands around the country, the fight could be kept rolling for a hell of a long time.

Could someone take on a tank with a .38 special and an old school Winchester? Of course not. Could a body of citizens so armed, and with the right plan and mindset, mount an assault on a National Guard armory?

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 8:56:48 PM

FellowSlave

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quote:

Shotguns (other than some slugs) are ineffective against body armor, see LA shootout.

I like sawed-off shotgun for home protection. It is not a wise decision to start firefight with men in body armor (government goons perhaps). Unless your life is in immediate danger guns must be hidden. If you by accident face a cop with a gun in your hand better shoot first to disable. Otherwise you will be dead.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/20/2014 9:27:12 PM

TheHeretic

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Now there is another term the media and politicians get all confuzzled with - sawed off shotgun. This refers to taking a standard shotgun, and shortening the barrel(s). In the New Mexico incident this week, the shooter had cut down the stock, to form a crude pistol grip, and make the weapon fit into a musical instrument case for concealment. Not the same thing at all, but I saw it mentioned in the press as both a 22 guage shotgun, and a sawed off. Both clearly wrong to anyone with any sort of clue.

I keep a shotgun for home protection, and have used it for exactly that purpose a couple of times - it does a fine job on rattlesnakes too big to comfortably kill with a shovel. I have not needed it for any humans, and I'm fine with that. Should such a situation ever arise, I hope they would be more sensible about the sound of the action than the snakes have been. It has the minimum barrel length allowed by California law, and was manufactured with those. Shortening the barrels yourself is a major no-no here, even if they are still above the minimum.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 10:15:24 AM

lovmuffin

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FR

That Video cracked me up. It's not so funny though when you consider there are so many people, including those who elected that idiot, actually believe that shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The same thing goes on in news stories about guns. 100 rounds gets described as a "large" supply of ammunition. A shooting is carried out with a 22 guage shotgun.

It's indoctrinating the general public. Most of the major TV networks plus CNN and quite a few local networks have covered the "lets ban semiautomatics" story with video footage of guys shooting machine guns. Still to this day I come across people who think you can walk into Wal Mart to buy a machine gun.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 11:51:07 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

FR

That Video cracked me up. It's not so funny though when you consider there are so many people, including those who elected that idiot, actually believe that shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The same thing goes on in news stories about guns. 100 rounds gets described as a "large" supply of ammunition. A shooting is carried out with a 22 guage shotgun.

It's indoctrinating the general public. Most of the major TV networks plus CNN and quite a few local networks have covered the "lets ban semiautomatics" story with video footage of guys shooting machine guns. Still to this day I come across people who think you can walk into Wal Mart to buy a machine gun.

It would be laughable if they didn't pass laws based on this nonsense

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 3:34:38 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Thanks for ignoring the OP topic entirely in order to share your desire to have other people die, 'new member'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cactustree

There is always such heated debate surrounding the ownership and use of weapons, even amongst just those who own and glorify them.

Recommend all local gun owners to stand in circular groups, and discharge thier weapons towards the centre.

We can all enjoy that, gun owners or otherwise.

ct

To be fair, I think he was only indicating a desire to see *Americans* killing each other, Ed.

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 4:53:16 PM

cloudboy

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"Anti-gun zealots."

Who are they and what is the threat they pose?

--------

Clearly to counteract whatever they are up to, we need a more heavily armed population.

Maybe as your own contribution to solving this problem, you could suggest where the limits of gun ownership should be set.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/21/2014 4:54:27 PM >

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 4:54:25 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Thanks for ignoring the OP topic entirely in order to share your desire to have other people die, 'new member'.

Dear oh dear..... Are you suggesting anything here ?

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 6:18:06 PM

EdBowie

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If you have to ask...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Thanks for ignoring the OP topic entirely in order to share your desire to have other people die, 'new member'.

Dear oh dear..... Are you suggesting anything here ?

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RE: The dreaded 30 magazine clip - 1/21/2014 7:42:07 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cactustree

There is always such heated debate surrounding the ownership and use of weapons, even amongst just those who own and glorify them.

Recommend all local gun owners to stand in circular groups, and discharge thier weapons towards the centre.

We can all enjoy that, gun owners or otherwise.

ct

Because only gun owners are ok with killing.

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