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Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/5/2006 11:00:38 PM

MistyMenthal

Posts: 413
Joined: 3/28/2006
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Where did Bdsm Come from?
How long has it been around?

Just something roaming around my Smokey head
as I pondered,
Who could have been the first Slave, Submissive,
Master, Mistress, Switch?

Was Einstien a Submissive/Slave, or a Dominate/Switch?

Obviously Hitler was Dominate..

Was Adam Dominate or was it Eve?

How many people of the past do You know that where
Dominate or Sub/Slave?

quote:

"How ever long it has been around I'm Glad to be a part of it!"

Blowing SMOKE Misty

< Message edited by MistyMenthal -- 7/5/2006 11:02:24 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/5/2006 11:28:05 PM

Lordandmaster

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What gives you that idea? No one really knows very much about his sexual preferences (although that doesn't stop people from speculating about it and selling books), but the few indications are that he was a repressed masochist, possibly a homosexual. There's certainly no evidence that he had anything like a BDSM relationship as a dom with a submissive woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistyMenthal

Obviously Hitler was Dominate..

(in reply to MistyMenthal)

Post #: 2

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/5/2006 11:31:38 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I am going to go out on a limb and say that it has always been a part of human sexuality, even if it is latent. Is it still BDSM even if we did not call it that? Personally I think Ds, SM and all the variations thereof have been around longer than there were humans.. it seemingly exists with other primates.

I do not think that you meant the question the way I took it, and I am interested in what we know as BDSM began in the "formal" way it is practiced. I have read several places it began with the leather community in the USA,..But I wouldn't know since I wasn't there...

I just caught that Hitler reference on edit

Hitler is not my idea of someone naturally dominant, if you read books like "Inside The Third Reich" you would see what I mean. I do not think we can have any idea of what people's orientation is based on their vanilla actions anyways.. Even in saying this I must say that Hitler was delusional in many ways, not my idea of a "man in control"

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/5/2006 11:37:03 PM >

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MistyMenthal)

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/5/2006 11:34:01 PM

Estring

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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BD started about 30 years ago in Austria. SM started a few years earlier in China.

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 12:23:08 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
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Celeste started it 23 years ago yesterday

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"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 5

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 12:27:56 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Was Ceasar a dominat? probably
Was Marc Anthony a submissive? Hell yes Cleopatra had him wrapped about her pinkie.
Was Caligula a (you name it)? Probably he brought perversion to new heights...
Were the Cavemen Dominants? If what is posited about their use of clubs I'd imagine so..

So Who started it.. An interplanetary war between Mars (for men) and Venus (for women). The Milky Way is all that cum shot all over from the rape and pillage.. Well mostly rape..

My theory anyway...

_____________________________

Iron Bear

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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to Estring)

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 12:34:01 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Celeste started it 23 years ago yesterday

Trublemaker!

And it was 24 years and three days ago (it's after midnight here!)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to slavejali)

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 12:36:44 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

oh....yes Your Foundership

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Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 8

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 1:34:31 AM

MstrTiger

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Joined: 1/14/2006
From: UK
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The terms sadism and masochism were invented by Dr Richard von Krafft-Ebing in his book Psycopathia Sexualis which was first published in 1886 so before then I am not really sure how people defined their sexual roles. I don’t think if Caligula or Nero were around today they would be classed as dominants, they would more than likely be in a mental asylum. It does not really work when people to impose modern concepts of sexual morality or modern defined sexual roles onto people who were unaware of them in their own time.

< Message edited by MstrTiger -- 7/6/2006 2:07:12 AM >

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 9

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 1:56:41 AM

SusanofO

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I agree with juliaoceania, although I think also that wasn't probably the Q, and love it when people have actual facts; thank you Mstr Tiger - this message board can be so educational.

Sidenote: Hitler's father was a very, very sadistic father. Adolf was brutally beaten as a child - no excuse for what he did, but he was. I read that somewhere, I forget where.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/6/2006 1:57:16 AM >

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And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 2:26:53 AM

RavenMuse

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Joined: 1/23/2006
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Ug the neandertal decided to court young missy Uglinka. Grabbed her by the hair to drag her into his cave.... she liked it and thus BDSM was born!

I believe they are both still on the U.S. lecture circuit

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Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to MistyMenthal)

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 2:59:15 AM

Sirandlittle1

Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What gives you that idea? No one really knows very much about his sexual preferences (although that doesn't stop people from speculating about it and selling books), but the few indications are that he was a repressed masochist, possibly a homosexual. There's certainly no evidence that he had anything like a BDSM relationship as a dom with a submissive woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistyMenthal

Obviously Hitler was Dominate..

Its a well recorded fact, that Hitler was in fact a submissive masochist. He would crave his fix of CBT and had in fact come a cropper one day whilst doing so. Where his testicle was completely severed in a tragic knife play incident.

little1

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 12

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 3:01:55 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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I agree with RavenMuse.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 13

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 3:50:08 AM

NastyDaddy

Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

BDSM actually stands for Bi-Directional Seismic Misselle, aka Gravity...

BDSM dominates everything on Master/Mistress/Dom/me Earth...

It all started with the BIG BANG but the records before that are loaned out or have been misplaced...

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 14

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 6:17:48 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger

The terms sadism and masochism were invented by Dr Richard von Krafft-Ebing in his book Psycopathia Sexualis which was first published in 1886 so before then I am not really sure how people defined their sexual roles. I don’t think if Caligula or Nero were around today they would be classed as dominants, they would more than likely be in a mental asylum. It does not really work when people to impose modern concepts of sexual morality or modern defined sexual roles onto people who were unaware of them in their own time.

Good God man have you absolutely no sence of humour? Are you not able to differenciate between a facicious post and an informative one? Pray do get a grip and for heavens sake get a life. I do fear old chap thay you re heading for an early burn out.. Learn to laugh and cease taking every post so jolly seriously.....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MstrTiger)

Post #: 15

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 7:21:21 AM

JohnWarren

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Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

Now, in my lexicon, BDSM includes the concept of consent, mutual need and the satisfaction of those mutual complementary needs. This, it seems, tends to make it the province of people who have enough power over their own lives as to make playing with that power interesting.

I don't know who invented decorative knot tying, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a guy hanging by a rope over a crevass. The same is true for powerplay when a person has only enough power to make survival a crapshoot.

When I was on a visit for Visiting Scholars to the Forbidden City in China, we were allowed to see the personal rooms of the Emperors and their families. In on of these room was what the tour operator called a "child's toy" but to my eyes it was pretty clearly a pussy/cock whip made of several strands of precious stones. Only a mile from where I was standing at the time when this toy was in use, I don't think the people of China would have been able to comprehend that someone could want to get whipped even by a jeweled whip. They simply lacked the personal power to play at this level.

I suspect that all kinks of BDSM play has existed in a very limited subset of society for centuries, but this may be the first time when "ordinary people" have had the freedom to life our eyes from the ground of the ordinary and see the possibility of kink.

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 7:57:48 AM

bondagemastertj

Posts: 26
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I also read his father was Jewish and would beat on him, hence his hatred for them.
Charles Manson's mother was whore and his father was a black junkie-hence, he tried to blame "Helter Skelter" as he termed on on the blacks.
There are several examples throughout history. Im surpised nobody mentioned the Marquis De Sade and the Inquisition and things of this nature yet, but then again I havent read every post in this thread yet

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 17

RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 8:05:00 AM

Caretakr

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Joined: 6/24/2006
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It came from life.

(in reply to MistyMenthal)

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 8:09:31 AM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I would say since the beginning of humanity most likely. Perhaps when the first cavewoman bonked a caveman in the head and dragged him by the hair back to her lair, tied him up with some vines and whipped him with a tree branch.

BDSM has since gotten more or less refined over the ages.

~Lashra
Whipping asses since 1981

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Caretakr)

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RE: Where did Bdsm Come from, Who started it? - 7/6/2006 8:13:35 AM

RigidChopper

Posts: 19
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline

I dont think Hitler was dominant. He was a sadist though. Dominance and Sadism are not mutually inclusive. There are some historical references to his masochist tendencies before coming into power in the 1930's.

(in reply to MistyMenthal)

Post #: 20

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