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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/5/2014 6:43:17 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I must have missed your link showing that those that were on Twitter were Conservatives and/or Tea Party supporters

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/coca-cola-super-bowl-ad-angers-conservatives-article-1.1600849

Thanks for the link, Ken.
Glenn Beck actually said the commercial can divide us. His comments were along the lines of if you like the commercial, you'll be cast as for immigration and for progress. If you didn't like the commercial, you'll be cast as racist. It's like if there was a leader that was black who held beliefs that you don't agree with (even when held by a white person), you're cast as a racist.
I don't know if Glenn was correct or not with his comment about multiculturalism and the leaders in the EU. I'm sure nothing bad could happen when people don't assimilate and actually "melt into" the "melting pot."
This is the same shit that causes all the "cultural" problems in our society. You know, divided we fall? There shouldn't be rules that apply because of your skin color, racial heritage, etc. Can you imagine if schools had to teach every class in several different languages?
Understand that I took the commercial (and still do) as "diversity makes us better" (a la, the melting pot, and "variety is the spice of life").

Wrong..
beck said the ad "was intended to divide us politically"....



Well,if one can forget the long history of republican xenaphobia

You want to get exact and not accept anything but verbatim? Then, you're wrong, too. I stand by my analysis of his intent.

quote:

One must keep in mind that a big part of con-paranoia is a secret conspiracy intent on destroying marriage, ending English as our language, attacking Christmas and Christians and Christianity, attacking "traditional family values", attacking old white men,etc...
These creeps do a lot of thinking about scary monsters and black helicopters.......and what secret messages are hidden in tv ads...
“Why did you need that to divide us politically?” Beck said. “Because that’s all this ad is. It’s an in your face, and if you don’t like it, if you’re offended by it, you’re a racist. If you do like it, you’re for immigration. You’re for progress. That’s all this is: to divide people.
One question I have....why do these POS republicans assume they speak for anyone but themselves......?
It`s beck and that ilk that bring their own ugly arrogant/insecure, and negative thoughts into a very nice salute to America....
Read more at http://www.ksl.com/?nid=757&sid=28593933#ktAEHc7wb2iDB7hf.99


The ad certainly can divide us. If you say you don't like the ad, then you'll be labeled a racist. If you like it, you'll be "for" immigration and progress. Simply dividing people into groups, no?





Well,if one can forget the long history of republican xenophobia, it might seem simple.


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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 4:28:36 AM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

I've never been to the UK, but that is absolutely not happening in the US, at least not any more than it has throughout American history.



Clearly, you live in a different USA than I do.






The county I grew up in was, IIRC, 15% immigrant (plus all of their kids, of course). And you know what? Those people loved being in America and were proud to be here. Last July 4th I walked by a park area in a heavily-immigrant area where I live now, and it was packed with Hispanic and Asian people waving American flags and having picnics before the fireworks.

I've lived most of my life around people who hailed from all over the world, or who's parents hailed all over the world. They didn't all speak perfect English. But people coming from other countries to be free and find success and join the American melting pot is what this country is all about, and I have not seen any degradation of that national character of America because the same thing that's always happened is still happening.

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 5:21:25 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Here is the post in question which as a reply to my supplying you with proof that cons did whine about the ad was completely nonsensical if your interpretation is correct:
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I must have missed your link showing that those that were on Twitter were Conservatives and/or Tea Party supporters.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/coca-cola-super-bowl-ad-angers-conservatives-article-1.1600849

Thanks for the link, Ken.
Glenn Beck actually said the commercial can divide us. His comments were along the lines of if you like the commercial, you'll be cast as for immigration and for progress. If you didn't like the commercial, you'll be cast as racist. It's like if there was a leader that was black who held beliefs that you don't agree with (even when held by a white person), you're cast as a racist.
I don't know if Glenn was correct or not with his comment about multiculturalism and the leaders in the EU. I'm sure nothing bad could happen when people don't assimilate and actually "melt into" the "melting pot."
This is the same shit that causes all the "cultural" problems in our society. You know, divided we fall? There shouldn't be rules that apply because of your skin color, racial heritage, etc. Can you imagine if schools had to teach every class in several different languages?
Understand that I took the commercial (and still do) as "diversity makes us better" (a la, the melting pot, and "variety is the spice of life").


Yep. I disagreed that Beck was whining about the commercial. I neither agreed, nor disagreed, in words that the "whining" assertion was valid as to the others mentioned in the article you linked to. Your analysis was that I disagreed that Conservatives were whining, when my post was that Beck wasn't whining.

Faulty analysis. That's on you.


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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 5:28:45 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I wholly object to any national identity being destroyed by immigrants and the UK and US are letting it happen.

I've never been to the UK, but that is absolutely not happening in the US, at least not any more than it has throughout American history.

There is a bigoted and paranoid narrative saying that white European-Americans own everything in America...including culture...and if we don`t do some ethnic discrimination/cleansing....American whites will be a minority....Oh heavens no!

And I specifically said... of all colours.
So I am definitely avoiding all the rhetoric about "white supremacists" and ethnic cleansing.

As for graceadieu's comment - it most certainly is happening in parts of the USA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
What nonsense! Australia is proud of its status as one of the world's most multicultural of countries. With the exception of Kooris, the entire population is composed of migrants and/or their descendents, with something like (IIRC) half the population either born overseas, or having one or both parents born overseas. The vast majority of Australians regard multiculturalism positively and embrace it. It is one of the central facts of Australian life today.

And you can see that the Australians latest political stance is that anyone arriving by boat, of any nationality is not welcome and will not be allowed to land on Australian mainland.
They will be processed off-shore and repatriated elsewhere - not in Australia.

Are you saying that the majority of Australians are against what the political party is advocating and putting into practice for immigration policies??
The people voted them in with this policy being one of the forefront of their manifesto.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
If this collection of vague unsupported anecdotes is the best evidence you can offer to prove your case, then your case remains utterly unproven. For instance the claims of no-go areas for police have been advanced on these boards before - and rejected derisively by many UK posters. Here in Sydney there are many schools where most of the children's first language is not English. No one here regards this as a threat to Australian identity. Your complaint about 'foreign' shopeepers daring to stock and sell 'foreign' foods is hilarious. I've never imagined that a specialist delicatessan could be a hotbed of subversion but I suppose you learn something new every day ..... Subversive salamis - whatever next?

And you know very well what I was refering to.
Not specialist foriegn food retailers at all but a whole area of several square miles of nothing but specific foreign foods with no normal English foods being available.
For a tiny island country, that sort of densely populated area with nothing but single-ethnic supplies is quite something and very significant.

And I gave Peterborough as just one example of where the immigrants have all-but destroyed the typical "Britishness" of the whole area.
There are many more areas in a similar situation across the UK.
Incidentally, it's also the Asians that are complaining - not the local whites!
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22339080

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The only point with any substance - that there are special laws for Sikhs - might be more persuasive had the actual issue involved not been so trivial. Try as I might, I am unable to imagine how a helmet-less Sikh, chugging along happily on his scooter somehow constitutes a threat to UK identity. The only thing endangered is the Sikh him/herself if they are unlucky enough to have an accident.

And you miss the point entirely.... again.
They had the laws specifically changed to allow that.
If a non-Sikh tried that trick, they'd be booked and prosecuted for not wearing a helmet as required by UK law.
Same for the knife law.
A Sikh and a Muslim can openly carry a knife and claim it is part of their religious rights to do so - in direct contravention of UK laws on carrying knives in public.
A normal Brit would be arrested and prosecuted (and have their knife confiscated) for doing the exact same thing as a Sikh or a Muslim.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
All up your post reminds me of the sensationalist nonsense so popular in the notorious UK tabloid press. A lot of huffing and puffing but when examined seriously, nothing of any consequence. A lot of disparate irrational fears disguised as a serious attempt at cultural analysis. It takes a lot more than this trivia to make a case of a threat to an established culture.

This is more than just an odd case of trivia.
They have gotten laws changed country-wide.
They are allowed to get married within their own religion and it is recognised as 'legal' in the UK.
Yet other recognised religions cannot do that unless they specifically include certain words and phrases regarding 'god' and other christian crap in their vows otherwise it is not recognised as legal.

No matter where you look, the traditional British way of life, it's national identity and it's laws are slowly being eroded into extinction.

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 5:33:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But people coming from other countries to be free and find success and join the American melting pot is what this country is all about, and I have not seen any degradation of that national character of America because the same thing that's always happened is still happening.


I think there is less joining "the American melting pot" than before. Granted, I don't think it's as doomy and gloomy as some would assert, but there are questions of "degredation of national character of America" when students run into trouble wearing a shirt with the American flag on it to school on Cinco de Mayo.

Personally, I think the degradation of the national character is easily seen in the characterization and non-physical segregation of the American citizenry. Things like Affirmative Action clearly don't hold all Citizens as equal under the law. Basing a benefits program one one's skin color is just as racist as basing a penalty on one's skin color. Different rules based on different socioeconomic levels is discrimination, and degrades the national character.



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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 5:52:21 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I think there is less joining "the American melting pot" than before. Granted, I don't think it's as doomy and gloomy as some would assert, but there are questions of "degredation of national character of America" when students run into trouble wearing a shirt with the American flag on it to school on Cinco de Mayo.



When I was growing up, Italian kids used to wear orange on 17 MAR. No one ever got suspended (unless something devolved into physical violence). No one was told to take their shirts off. No one was sent home.

As you pointed out, that isn't the case, anymore. Now, being proud to be American is seen as some kind of slight to people who have recently arrived.

I lived in a city where the entire city was shut down on Cinco De Mayo; originally because of all the purposeful traffic jams, designed to cause disruption and then, because businesses just threw up their hands and couldn't fight what the police/politicians either couldn't or wouldn't control.

I LOVED the Cinco De Mayo celebrations. I never understood the need for traffic on the streets to be disrupted (and speaking Spanish, I was able to hear some of the reasons individuals had for doing so).





< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/7/2014 6:42:11 AM >

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 6:40:06 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But people coming from other countries to be free and find success and join the American melting pot is what this country is all about, and I have not seen any degradation of that national character of America because the same thing that's always happened is still happening.


I think there is less joining "the American melting pot" than before. Granted, I don't think it's as doomy and gloomy as some would assert, but there are questions of "degredation of national character of America" when students run into trouble wearing a shirt with the American flag on it to school on Cinco de Mayo.

Personally, I think the degradation of the national character is easily seen in the characterization and non-physical segregation of the American citizenry. Things like Affirmative Action clearly don't hold all Citizens as equal under the law. Basing a benefits program one one's skin color is just as racist as basing a penalty on one's skin color. Different rules based on different socioeconomic levels is discrimination, and degrades the national character.





Wrong....again...


There is of course a long and recent history of the republican party targeting blacks for mistreatment and voter suppression...


Examples....


Claiming that racism in America is "over"....

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/02/rnc-clarifies-tweet-that-suggests-racism-is-over/


~~~~~~~~


Putting out "who`s racist" flowcharts....





~~~~~~~~~


Racists dirty tricks for votes....."RNC Chief to Say It Was 'Wrong' to Exploit Racial Conflict for Votes"


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302342.html


~~~~~~~~~


Proposing to undo the Civil Rights Acts so that private business can once again discriminate based on race,etc.


http://www.redstate.com/youngwest1/2010/05/21/rand-paul-was-right-on-civil-rights-act/


~~~~~~~~~



"Florida's disgraced former GOP chairman says the party had meetings about "keeping blacks from voting"


http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/fla_republican_we_suppressed_black_votes/


There is no doubt, more venom and racial hatred spewing from the right because they are being beaten so handily by a black man....Ped Nugent just called the President a racist...yada-yada..


However ,in spite of what our dumb bigots say...race relations in America are better today than 5 years ago and before and to the chagrin of our dumb racist republicans....getting better all the time.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx




< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/7/2014 6:46:32 AM >

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 7:38:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But people coming from other countries to be free and find success and join the American melting pot is what this country is all about, and I have not seen any degradation of that national character of America because the same thing that's always happened is still happening.

I think there is less joining "the American melting pot" than before. Granted, I don't think it's as doomy and gloomy as some would assert, but there are questions of "degredation of national character of America" when students run into trouble wearing a shirt with the American flag on it to school on Cinco de Mayo.
Personally, I think the degradation of the national character is easily seen in the characterization and non-physical segregation of the American citizenry. Things like Affirmative Action clearly don't hold all Citizens as equal under the law. Basing a benefits program one one's skin color is just as racist as basing a penalty on one's skin color. Different rules based on different socioeconomic levels is discrimination, and degrades the national character.

Wrong....again...
There is of course a long and recent history of the republican party targeting blacks for mistreatment and voter suppression...


Don't forget the Republican "War on Women" or their "War on the Poor," either. What would the GOP do with a rich black woman?!?!?

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What I support:

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 8:12:22 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
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Status: offline 		This discusses the war on women:
http://www.politicususa.com/proof-war-women-2

And this discusses the war on the poor:
http://www.theglobalist.com/republican-war-on-the-poor/

Please mind they are likely biased, but they offer a steady platform to move forward from.

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 9:06:07 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
This discusses the war on women:
http://www.politicususa.com/proof-war-women-2
And this discusses the war on the poor:
http://www.theglobalist.com/republican-war-on-the-poor/
Please mind they are likely biased, but they offer a steady platform to move forward from.


You must not have noticed the "rolls eyes" emoticon.

There is no GOP "War on Women," "War on the Poor," or "Voter Suppression" and black mistreatment tactics. All horseshit rhetoric.

Any previous indiscretions should not be foisted on the current crap of politicians, unless they are continuing those previous indiscretions.


_____________________________

What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 9:19:38 AM   
Tkman117


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Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Look, maybe it's just the right wing cutting things they see as unnecessary. But regardless, the poor and many women and their reproductive rights are on a negative receiving end of these cuts. These "wars" may be propaganda, but they're pointing out major examples of how these groups of people are being harmed by GOP efforts. Plus, you gotto admit, the right wing hates the idea of abortion or contraception for women, so is there a political agenda at play when they're going after reproductive rights and trying to limit abortion? It's a fairly likely possibility. Not to mention that these issues are far more prevalent than the GOP's laughable war on Christmas

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 2/7/2014 9:24:38 AM >

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 12:31:19 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Look, maybe it's just the right wing cutting things they see as unnecessary. But regardless, the poor and many women and their reproductive rights are on a negative receiving end of these cuts. These "wars" may be propaganda, but they're pointing out major examples of how these groups of people are being harmed by GOP efforts. Plus, you gotto admit, the right wing hates the idea of abortion or contraception for women, so is there a political agenda at play when they're going after reproductive rights and trying to limit abortion? It's a fairly likely possibility. Not to mention that these issues are far more prevalent than the GOP's laughable war on Christmas


Going after Reproductive rights? Hardly.

The abortion debate is, generally, about the human rights of the developing baby vs. the human rights of the mother. While Liberals tend to side with women having the right to decide what happens to their bodies, as it pertains to pregnancies, the GOP has no problem with that, so long as the rights of the developing fetus aren't infringed upon. Saying the GOP is against a woman's right to choose, is akin to saying that Democrats support killing babies. Obvious pver the top rhetoric.

Another part of the abortion debate is who pays for it. I am of the opinion that a woman should have the right to an abortion, according to the current laws of the land. I am also of the opinion that that woman has the responsibility to pay for that abortion, as opposed to taxpayers paying for it. I hold the opinion that insurance companies should not automatically cover (and government shouldn't mandate they cover) pregnancy and birth-related medical costs, allowing for them to be included or excluded from coverage as the covered sees fit. And, if an insurance company should decide that they will cover the cost of an abortion, they have every right to include or exclude that from the options they offer. I also believe that insurance should cover Viagra-type medications and other contraceptive drugs the same way they cover medically-unnecessary elective surgeries. In cases where contraceptive drugs are used to treat medical conditions and not used solely as birth control, I believe insurance companies should cover them as they cover other medications.

I know my beliefs are not all typical of the GOP (not surprising since I'm not a Republican), but you really do need to get more of an understanding of what the GOP supports before you start spouting Liberal partisan bullshit.

There is a difference between enabling and empowering. Is suggest you figure it out. There is also a fine line between enabling and empowering, empowering and punishing. It's a touchy subject, not that that should shock anyone here.






_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 1:12:19 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		News flash! A fetus isn't a baby, it's practically a parasite, and when an abortion is carried outs it's usually no bigger than a clump of cells. The right wing doesn't understand the difference and it's really quite sad. Not to mention you talk about "human rights" of the "baby" and yet conservatives don't care about what happens afterward. Considering the fact that a lot of social services are cut by conservatives that kids and poor families need to really get by.

Not to mention that who pays for it is only part of the "war on women" as Conservative politicians keep passing legislation demanding unreasonable standards at abortion clinics, or for invasive procedures or forced ultrasounds to try and guilt women into bringing the child to term. It's wrong and deceptive, and that's where a lot of the problems lay, not necessarily with who should pay for it.

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 5:27:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
What nonsense! Australia is proud of its status as one of the world's most multicultural of countries. With the exception of Kooris, the entire population is composed of migrants and/or their descendents, with something like (IIRC) half the population either born overseas, or having one or both parents born overseas. The vast majority of Australians regard multiculturalism positively and embrace it. It is one of the central facts of Australian life today.


And you can see that the Australians latest political stance is that anyone arriving by boat, of any nationality is not welcome and will not be allowed to land on Australian mainland.
They will be processed off-shore and repatriated elsewhere - not in Australia.

Are you saying that the majority of Australians are against what the political party is advocating and putting into practice for immigration policies??
The people voted them in with this policy being one of the forefront of their manifesto.


Without in any way defending these policies, I should point out that those who advocate these policies do so in part to save the integrity of the immigation system here. These policies are promoted not as "immigration" policies but as "border protection/national security" policies, quite a separate policy area. These measures specifically target unauthorised boat arrivals and unauthorised boat arrivals only - they do not target other arrivals nor do they target immigrants

Unauthorised boat arrivals here are seen as a threat to border security and as jumping the immigration queue. These policies operate only against arrivals by boat - if you wish to get asylum in Australia the way to do it is to arrive by plane. None of the draconian measures in place against boat arrivals are used against plane arrivals. Australia accepts c13,000* refugees every year for permanent residence (population of Australia = c21 million) The people who organise unauthorised boat arrivals - so-called people smugglers or human traffickers - are subjected to popular antipathy and severe law enforcement interdiction/suppression. 'People smugglers' are held in held in public odium as they are seen to be responsible for the many hundreds of deaths at sea of asylum seekers

So it is a fundamental error to assert that these policies (such as they are) are immigration policies - they aren't. All the political parties here support large scale immigration policies and multiculturalism. Opposition comes only from fringe or extreme right wing groups. Such groups have no political significance, no parliamentary representation and are regularly trounced in the polls, receiving single digit percentages of the vote usually of the order of 1 or 2 %.

* I believe this figure of 13,000 is slated to rise to c20,000 over the next few years.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/7/2014 5:51:32 PM >

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 8:26:24 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But people coming from other countries to be free and find success and join the American melting pot is what this country is all about, and I have not seen any degradation of that national character of America because the same thing that's always happened is still happening.


I think there is less joining "the American melting pot" than before. Granted, I don't think it's as doomy and gloomy as some would assert, but there are questions of "degredation of national character of America" when students run into trouble wearing a shirt with the American flag on it to school on Cinco de Mayo.

Personally, I think the degradation of the national character is easily seen in the characterization and non-physical segregation of the American citizenry. Things like Affirmative Action clearly don't hold all Citizens as equal under the law. Basing a benefits program one one's skin color is just as racist as basing a penalty on one's skin color. Different rules based on different socioeconomic levels is discrimination, and degrades the national character.




I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for wearing a flag shirt, even though I'm pretty sure that's a violation of the flag code.

As far as cultural groups segregating themselves to a degree, that's been going on forever - see Chinatown, Little Italy, people still identifying as Irish or Pennsylvania Dutch when their family has been here 150+ years. Hell, the are still PA Dutch who speak German at home. It's nothing new that the melting pot is, uh, more like a stew.

Affirmative action exists because people didn't magically stop being racist and discriminatory when the civil rights act passed. Its an admittedly clunky way to forcibly counterbalance pervasive discrimination in society.

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RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 8:39:54 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
There is no GOP "War on Women," "War on the Poor," or "Voter Suppression" and black mistreatment tactics. All horseshit rhetoric.
Since when? Didn't the present House just make the first bill an anti abortion bill?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 8:44:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
News flash! A fetus isn't a baby, it's practically a parasite, and when an abortion is carried outs it's usually no bigger than a clump of cells. The right wing doesn't understand the difference and it's really quite sad. Not to mention you talk about "human rights" of the "baby" and yet conservatives don't care about what happens afterward. Considering the fact that a lot of social services are cut by conservatives that kids and poor families need to really get by.


No news flash there, TK. If you attempted to digest my opinions I posted there, I don't agree with everything the GOP agrees with. Please also note that I did say that I support women having the option for abortion according to the current laws of the land. That means that, in general, abortions are perfectly legal up quickening, after which they are legal if the mother's health is in jeopardy. That gives quite a bit of time to a pregnant woman to decide if she wants a pregnancy or not.

quote:

Not to mention that who pays for it is only part of the "war on women" as Conservative politicians keep passing legislation demanding unreasonable standards at abortion clinics, or for invasive procedures or forced ultrasounds to try and guilt women into bringing the child to term. It's wrong and deceptive, and that's where a lot of the problems lay, not necessarily with who should pay for it.


Unreasonable standards? Do tell.

It's not wrong. It's not deceptive. It might be emotionally controversial, but killing a fetus can be emotionally controversial, too.

If a woman wants the right to choose, I have no problem with her being allowed to choose. I do have a problem when her choice starts to make choices for me, without my consent. I did not enjoy the act that resulted in the pregnancy. I did not participate in it, either. I didn't even get asked if it was okay with me if they got busy. Why should I, as a taxpayer, have to foot any part of the bill for the abortion? The answer is, I shouldn't, and neither should any taxpayer. The people that engage in the act that resulted in the pregnancy should be on the hook for the abortion, if they choose that route.

You are being a partisan hack here. At least attempt to understand the other side.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 8:59:16 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But people coming from other countries to be free and find success and join the American melting pot is what this country is all about, and I have not seen any degradation of that national character of America because the same thing that's always happened is still happening.

I think there is less joining "the American melting pot" than before. Granted, I don't think it's as doomy and gloomy as some would assert, but there are questions of "degredation of national character of America" when students run into trouble wearing a shirt with the American flag on it to school on Cinco de Mayo.
Personally, I think the degradation of the national character is easily seen in the characterization and non-physical segregation of the American citizenry. Things like Affirmative Action clearly don't hold all Citizens as equal under the law. Basing a benefits program one one's skin color is just as racist as basing a penalty on one's skin color. Different rules based on different socioeconomic levels is discrimination, and degrades the national character.

I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for wearing a flag shirt, even though I'm pretty sure that's a violation of the flag code.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/17/american-flag-shirt-california-cinco-de-mayo_n_4114841.html

I'm sure there was a thread on it here, too.

quote:

As far as cultural groups segregating themselves to a degree, that's been going on forever - see Chinatown, Little Italy, people still identifying as Irish or Pennsylvania Dutch when their family has been here 150+ years. Hell, the are still PA Dutch who speak German at home. It's nothing new that the melting pot is, uh, more like a stew.
Affirmative action exists because people didn't magically stop being racist and discriminatory when the civil rights act passed. Its an admittedly clunky way to forcibly counterbalance pervasive discrimination in society.


There is a very Hungarian section of Toledo. It is the location of the creation of "Tony Packo's" and the birthplace of Jamie Farr (Cpl. Klinger of M.A.S.H. fame). While the Hungarians that live there, the strong German and Polish heritage areas exist, they are still Americans, by choice, and they still assimilated into the stew. They aren't attempting to force their heritage, their ways of life, or their national holidays on anyone. My grandfathers were first generation Americans (one fully German, the other fully Italian). Both served the US in WWII, and, theoretically, could have been fighting their own cousins. When we celebrated, we had authentic cuisines. I am quite proud of the ethnic traditions my family still practice.

Affirmative Action (needed or not) was a racist program to combat racist hiring practices. The NFL requiring at least one minority coaching candidate be interviewed before a team can hire a new Head Coach is a racist practice. Voting for Obama because he's black is as racist an action as voting against Obama because he's black.

Racism is racism, no matter how good or bad the intentions.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/7/2014 9:00:27 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
There is no GOP "War on Women," "War on the Poor," or "Voter Suppression" and black mistreatment tactics. All horseshit rhetoric.
Since when? Didn't the present House just make the first bill an anti abortion bill?


You tell me, Ken. It's your assertion. Plus, just because it's an anti-abortion bill, doesn't mean it's anti-woman. That's just more rhetoric.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Coca Cola Crapstorm - 2/8/2014 5:49:31 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
This discusses the war on women:
http://www.politicususa.com/proof-war-women-2
And this discusses the war on the poor:
http://www.theglobalist.com/republican-war-on-the-poor/
Please mind they are likely biased, but they offer a steady platform to move forward from.


You must not have noticed the "rolls eyes" emoticon.

There is no GOP "War on Women," "War on the Poor," or "Voter Suppression" and black mistreatment tactics. All horseshit rhetoric.

Any previous indiscretions should not be foisted on the current crap of politicians, unless they are continuing those previous indiscretions.



But but but if you take away their "war on women" and "war on the poor" how will they get people to vote for them? Much better to paint the other side as evil and it's pretty much all they have going for them.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 120
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