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For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 5:07:46 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		In a shocking case, 2 American judges have been jailed for having corrupt relations with a private (for profit) prison company.

The judges received kickbacks totalling $2.6 million for sentencing minors to prison terms. At least one minor committed suicide as a direct consequence of being imprisoned by one of the corrupt judges. Other minors were imprisoned for dubious 'crimes' such as creating a Faebook page parodying their school's head master.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/no-one-listened-because-we-were-kids-inside-nations-shocking-kids-cash-juvenile?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark

This case is an almost textbook example of what can go wrong when finanicial incentives/rewards are available to those who can sentence others to prison terms and those whose business is making a profit from providing incarceration services. This kind of corruption is a compelling reason why for profit prisons should be banned everywhere.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/7/2014 5:09:31 PM >

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 5:32:39 PM   
kdsub


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I think you are being naïve tweak… there is nothing wrong with for profit prisons as long as they are well regulated… there is something wrong with corrupt judges and I hope they rot.

There was a hospice care worker recently that was stealing morphine from patients and replacing the stolen drug with mouthwash. Should we outlaw hospice care…after all it is for profit?

Doctors often order unneeded surgeries for profit… should we outlaw doctors or the hospitals the surgeries were performed in?

I will agree that there is an incentive for corruption and special care must be taken to properly regulate this type of business…and it is a business.

Butch

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 5:36:02 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		just from the stories in the past year alone, there clearly IS something wrong with for profit prisons..... something SERIOUSLY WRONG.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 5:39:29 PM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		Just another thorn in the beautiful rose that is a world whose culture and modern sociological would have us believe that we are born with a desire to compete for plentiful yet regulated resources and the jobs necessary to earn the paper needed to purchase them.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 5:48:54 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Everything for profit can and is abused...the idea is good... if properly regulated. If there are problems then they should be addressed. Just like in tweaks story the judges were caught and our now themselves in jail.

Butch

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 6:00:21 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		but but but....regulations choke free enterprise....

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 6:31:13 PM   
FelineRanger


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Status: offline 		For-profit prisons are inherently corrupt and the results shown by entire U.S. prison system demonstrate that with absolute crystal clarity. Anything done with profit in mind is done with maximum efficiency as the driving principle. Unfortunately, anything dealing with people is inherently inefficient. True rehabilitation of inmates costs money that takes away from the bottom line, therefore it simply isn't done. The families of frequently indigent inmates are simply squeezed for money that they don't have.

Here's the thing you need to understand about my rabid opposition to for-profit prisons: I am a product of that system. Yes, I committed a felony offense, I can't deny that. But my offense was not violent, not drug related, not theft, not fraud, and there was no victim because I did not threaten anyone or actually put a hand on anyone. Further, it was four years from the time I committed my offense to when I was arrested and another two years before I was actually incarcerated. In that time, I saw where I had done wrong and made some of the changes necessary to my life in order not to reoffend. All of that was completely, utterly ignored. Inmates are no longer people, they are objects according to the training of the corrections officers. Further, CO's have carte blanche to abuse inmates any way they wish without fear of official punishment.

Finally, for now, let me address what is laughingly called therapy or mental health for inmates. Inmate therapy consists of groups of disparate inmates thrown together so that one "highly qualified professional" can look down their nose and tell you the following:
* We know what you are. (Note: not who but what. Objectification much?)
* We know how you think.
* Recidivism is inevitable.
* The only real purpose to this therapy is to slightly mitigate the damage when you inevitably reoffend.

Until the U.S. prison system is run with real rehabilitation in mind like the Scandinavian system is, the U.S. will continue to look like a third world country with a greater percentage of its population in prison and a recidivism rate that is higher than anywhere else.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 6:31:16 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		lol...Just so long as they have... bad food...small cells...salt peter...and hard work...that's all the regulation needed in the prison. But I sure want to make sure only those that are guilty and deserving end up in that hell.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 6:33:11 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Don't agree...I am one of those that believe prison is for punishment not rehabilitation. Parole officers and halfway houses can serve that purpose.

ps... The problems you have brought up are the same problems for all prison systems... If you want to say all prisons are evil ok... but to say just for profit ones are evil I cannot see where for profit or not makes any difference.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/7/2014 6:39:30 PM >

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:06:55 PM   
BamaD


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Profit is evil
Prisons are evil
Profit + Prison = evil squared

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:07:26 PM   
Tkman117


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Status: offline 		The problem with the mentality that prisons are meant to be for punishment and not for rehab is that those inside aren't given any incentive to not commit crime again. Negative emotions only do so much, positivity and encouraging proper behaviour goes a much longer way than beating a man for 20 years for owning a bit too much pot. Kindness and love win people over, not fear and oppression. But then again, fear mongering conservatives seem to have missed that point.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:08:41 PM   
FelineRanger


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Status: offline 		Parole officers and halfway houses do nothing of the sort. PO's actually make their jobs easier by rubber stamping parole violations and sending parolees back to prison for the slightest thing. Halfway houses also make absolutely no contribution to rehabilitation either. All they really do is forward reports back to the PO.

This is actually an area where enforcement of the law and BDSM intersect. If a sub or slave have broken some rule severely enough, does that dominant punish solely for the sake of punishment or does the dom levy a penalty with the purpose of teaching the sub not to repeat the offense? Punishment for the sake of punishment is generally known by another term: abuse.

Lastly, no, not all prison systems are run as poorly and abusively as the U.S. system. When the subject comes up, I bring up the Scandinavian system because theirs is the most successful at real rehabilitation. Unfortunately, their system is often denigrated here as being "soft" because they actively avoid the Riker's Island or Oz mentality that permeates the U.S.

< Message edited by FelineRanger -- 2/7/2014 7:12:49 PM >

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:09:45 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

The problem with the mentality that prisons are meant to be for punishment and not for rehab is that those inside aren't given any incentive to not commit crime again. Negative emotions only do so much, positivity and encouraging proper behaviour goes a much longer way than beating a man for 20 years for owning a bit too much pot. Kindness and love win people over, not fear and oppression. But then again, fear mongering conservatives seem to have missed that point.

See what I said if we would just try to understand criminals they wouldn't have to commit crimes any more

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:15:29 PM   
BamaD


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Is it just possible that the judges were crooks who finally got caught?
That they were the problem?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:16:55 PM   
FelineRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

The problem with the mentality that prisons are meant to be for punishment and not for rehab is that those inside aren't given any incentive to not commit crime again. Negative emotions only do so much, positivity and encouraging proper behaviour goes a much longer way than beating a man for 20 years for owning a bit too much pot. Kindness and love win people over, not fear and oppression. But then again, fear mongering conservatives seem to have missed that point.


Giving a person incentive not to commit another crime is the basic philosophy behind the Scandinavian system. It's also why their recidivism rate is half that of the U.S.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:17:16 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
Profit is evil
Prisons are evil
Profit + Prison = evil squared

abuse for profit is all good eh?

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:23:03 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but but but....regulations choke free enterprise....

.....if free enterprise existed.

But otherwise you've got it Lucy if you what you really mean...is capitalism. One can't regulate greed...Oops...innovation. That's why wall street and the corporations have been so successful and shown how they so benefit society, hasn't anybody noticed ? If they'd only learn.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:32:28 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Profit + Prison = evil squared


And just the thing for thieves and murderers and child molesters.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:40:10 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Lastly, no, not all prison systems are run as poorly and abusively as the U.S. system. When the subject comes up, I bring up the Scandinavian system because theirs is the most successful at real rehabilitation. Unfortunately, their system is often denigrated here as being "soft" because they actively avoid the Riker's Island or Oz mentality that permeates the U.S.


We are not talking about the problems of the whole system...but the problems of  "for profit specific systems". I already said I don't give a rates ass about rehabilitation... prison for me should be punishment. Rehabilitation should be separate after punishment if we can afford it... Halfway houses and parole officers are the way to do it... But of course only in my opinion... which I believe matches the majority of Americans... for good or bad like it or not.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/7/2014 7:41:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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If we used the death penalty as often as it is justified by the crimes, we wouldn't be dealing with these overcrowding issues.

The real savings in the private prison industry isn't on the inmate security and care costs, but in that we aren't dealing with a corrupt and evil public employee union that believes guards need to be on the clock as they walk from their cars to the locker room, to get dressed for work and then back to the cars after they have showered and changed clothes, and retirement plans where they can quit working and start collecting a pension check in their early 40's.





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