RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID

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Lucylastic -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 2:33:14 PM)
http://www.nbc29.com/story/22627644/bassett-man-pleads-guilty-to-voter-fraud-forgery http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/19/virginia-republican-pleads-guilty-to-dozens-of-counts-of-voter-fraud/ http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/04/418963/indiana-secretary-of-state-convicted-of-voter-fraud/ http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/republicans-test-for-voting-fraud-wind-up-in-custody

DesideriScuri -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 2:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR To me, it's a disappointment that so many people on this thread talk about people's' responsibilities to the government and not governments' responsibilities towards people. For me, this issue is primarily about how to prevent powerful political interests from being fraudulent. Gawd. The question arises: "when is an inalienable right not an inalienable right?" Well, obviously, when it comes to the right to vote: when someone doesn't have some pissy little bit of official paper or another, as decreed by the government of the day. Pop goes the Constitution, whisked aside by nothing more than red tape. PFH, the right to vote in US elections isn't an inalienable right. As a non-US Citizen, you do not have the right to vote in our elections. If you were to walk up to a pollworker and claim to be someone who is listed on their voter rolls, how would they know if you were or weren't who you said you were?

DesideriScuri -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 2:43:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic http://www.nbc29.com/story/22627644/bassett-man-pleads-guilty-to-voter-fraud-forgery http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/19/virginia-republican-pleads-guilty-to-dozens-of-counts-of-voter-fraud/ http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/04/418963/indiana-secretary-of-state-convicted-of-voter-fraud/ http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/republicans-test-for-voting-fraud-wind-up-in-custody Nope. Voter fraud doesn't happen. We've been told over and over that it doesn't happen.

BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 2:51:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic http://www.nbc29.com/story/22627644/bassett-man-pleads-guilty-to-voter-fraud-forgery http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/19/virginia-republican-pleads-guilty-to-dozens-of-counts-of-voter-fraud/ http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/04/418963/indiana-secretary-of-state-convicted-of-voter-fraud/ http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/republicans-test-for-voting-fraud-wind-up-in-custody Nope. Voter fraud doesn't happen. We've been told over and over that it doesn't happen. There is fraud all over, by both parties, to contend otherwise is, at best, naïve.

cloudboy -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 3:14:23 PM)
I feel no need to change things to correct a problem that does not exist. Next, assuming 100 votes are fraudulently cast in an election, and mind you that is a high figure, the likes of which has never been reported anywhere in the past 30 years, I would see no need to restrict voting practices --- an act that might well prevent thousands of people from voting. Voting fraud is a misnomer here, what is going on is republican legislatures trying to give their own party an advantage at the polls.

cloudboy -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 3:17:04 PM)
Voting fraud is not "all over." Quit spreading lies.

BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 3:34:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Voting fraud is not "all over." Quit spreading lies. SCOTUS seems to disagree with you, does this mean that you finally admit there is voter fraud, it's just not widespread? Voter Fraud Is a Proven Election Manipulation Tactic By Hans A. Von Spakovsky June 13, 2012 SHARE 412 324 The Supreme Court answered this question in 2008 when it upheld Indiana's voter ID law. "Flagrant examples of such fraud … have been documented throughout this Nation's history by respected historians and journalists," the court said, "[and] not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election." But ask voters in Troy, N.Y., Lincoln County, W.Va., and Florida whether voter fraud is a real problem. Four local officials and party activists were convicted in 2011 of voter fraud in Troy for forging enough absentee ballots to "likely have tipped the city council and county elections" in 2009. Two veteran Democratic political operatives said voter fraud is an accepted way of winning elections. One of them who pled guilty, Anthony DeFiglio, told police that such fraud was a "normal political tactic." [See a collection of political cartoons on the Republican Party.] And it is the most vulnerable who are far too often the victims of vote thieves. DeFiglio admitted that the "people who are targeted live in low-income housing … [T]here is a sense that they are a lot less likely to ask any questions." In March 2012, the county sheriff and clerk in Lincoln County, W.Va., pled guilty to voter fraud. They stuffed enough bogus absentee ballots into ballot boxes to change the outcome of a 2010 Democratic primary election. Was this a one-time incident? Probably not, since the Lincoln County auditor was also found guilty of voter fraud in 2005. [See photos of Wisconsin Voters Heading to the Polls] An ongoing review of voter registration rolls in Florida has already found almost 100 confirmed non-citizens registered to vote, half of whom voted in at least one previous election; this in a state that decided the 2000 presidential election by slightly more than 500 votes. During the Bush administration, the Justice Department convicted more than a dozen non-citizens of illegally registering and voting in Florida elections. And the state has thousands more possibly unlawful registrations to investigate. As the Supreme Court said, vote fraud has been present in our elections throughout our entire history. There are individuals who are willing to take advantage when they see an opportunity to steal an election. We need to be sure that every eligible American is able to vote, but we also need to take the steps necessary to ensure the integrity of our election process.

popeye1250 -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 4:18:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy You keep missing the point. [:D][:D][:D]

epiphiny43 -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 4:36:31 PM)
Institutional fraud within the system has been the recent abuse of the voting process. SCOTUS put it's oar behind exactly that with it's (unprecedented in the history of our Republic) Supreme Court involvement in a State election, the FL 'hanging chad' case (ALL 'hanging chads' were in Democratic precincts) where SCOTUS came down strongly on the side of the established powers right to voter fraud in close elections. So their claim voter fraud 'Might' sway a close election against the wishes of the American Voter is well informed.The irony of quoting SCOTUS on the far smaller issue of false ID voters is outstanding! So a few dozen here and a few hundred there balances thousands elsewhere if the bigger number is in favor of Republicans and the few are black, poor or immigrants? Taking 'Disingenuous' to constantly new heights? The glory of the American Right and it's unconscious recruitment behind the financial elite.

DomKen -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 4:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Why, when there isn't any voting fraud to begin with? Why make up a costly solution for a problem that doesn't exist? Did you know that in the Wis. recall election that Milwaukee had a voter turnout of 120%. No evidence of fraud there. Because it didn't happen. http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/impressive-voter-turnout-for-recall-election-t15uajf-160606775.html Do not believe the crazy shit you read on right wing sites. Do not believe the crazy shit you read on left wing sites. How can a person live in Chicago and believe there is no voter fraud? Still researching You can "research" forever there was nothing unusual about Milwaukee city or county turnout in the recalls.

cloudboy -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 5:53:50 PM)
quote: There is fraud all over, by both parties, to contend otherwise is, at best, naïve. Between 2000 and 2010 there were 649 million votes cast in general elections and 13 cases of in-person voter impersonation. I support the logic of the NAACP on the issue: Watch this to see its POV.

kalikshama -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 6:11:03 PM)
quote: I feel no need to change things to correct a problem that does not exist. Next, assuming 100 votes are fraudulently cast in an election, and mind you that is a high figure, the likes of which has never been reported anywhere in the past 30 years, I would see no need to restrict voting practices --- an act that might well prevent thousands of people from voting. http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf ...As many as 11 percent of United States citizens – more than 21 million individuals – do not have government-issued photo identification. Eleven percent of the [voting age] American citizens surveyed responded that they do not have current, unexpired government-issued identification with a photograph, such as a driver’s license or military ID. Using 2000 census calculations of the citizen voting-age population, this translates to more than 21 million American adult citizens nationwide who do not possess valid government photo ID. [Elderly, minority, and low income students are less likely to possess valid government photo ID.] Survey results: proof of citizenship As many as 7% of United States citizens – 13 million individuals – do not have ready access to citizenship documents. Seven percent of the American citizens surveyed responded that they do not have ready access to U.S. passports, naturalization papers, or birth certificates.2 Using 2000 census calculations of the citizen voting-age population, this translates to more than 13 million American adult citizens nationwide who cannot easily produce documentation proving their citizenship.3 Citizens with comparatively low incomes are less likely to possess documentation proving their citizenship. Citizens earning less than $25,000 per year are more than twice as likely to lack ready documentation of their citizenship as those earning more than $25,000.4 Indeed, the survey indicates that at least 12 percent of voting-age American citizens earning less than $25,000 per year do not have a readily available U.S. passport, naturalization document, or birth certificate.5 Documentation proving citizenship often does not reflect the citizen’s current name. Many of those who possess ready documentation of their citizenship do not have documentation that reflects their current name. For example, survey results show that only 48% of voting-age women with ready access to their U.S. birth certificates have a birth certificate with current legal name 6 – and only 66% of voting-age women with ready access to any proof of citizenship have a document with current legal name. 7 Using 2000 census citizen voting-age population data, this means that as many as 32 million voting-age women may have available only proof of citizenship documents that do not reflect their current name.

kalikshama -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 6:12:43 PM)
quote: You must understand that a good portion of US citizens would like to see photo ID requirements for voting. I believe that not just Republicans but a significant number of independents AND Democrats are also for photo ID's. Perhaps my google-fu is broken - source, please?

BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 6:31:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 Institutional fraud within the system has been the recent abuse of the voting process. SCOTUS put it's oar behind exactly that with it's (unprecedented in the history of our Republic) Supreme Court involvement in a State election, the FL 'hanging chad' case (ALL 'hanging chads' were in Democratic precincts) where SCOTUS came down strongly on the side of the established powers right to voter fraud in close elections. So their claim voter fraud 'Might' sway a close election against the wishes of the American Voter is well informed.The irony of quoting SCOTUS on the far smaller issue of false ID voters is outstanding! So a few dozen here and a few hundred there balances thousands elsewhere if the bigger number is in favor of Republicans and the few are black, poor or immigrants? Taking 'Disingenuous' to constantly new heights? The glory of the American Right and it's unconscious recruitment behind the financial elite. Check your logic The chads were in Democratic precincts, with Democrat voting commissions, see the problem? Also only Democratic precincts were recounted (being most likely to get more Democratic votes). This was the reason SCOTUS voted against them they only wanted to recount in places that would help Democrats.

DomKen -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 6:35:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 Institutional fraud within the system has been the recent abuse of the voting process. SCOTUS put it's oar behind exactly that with it's (unprecedented in the history of our Republic) Supreme Court involvement in a State election, the FL 'hanging chad' case (ALL 'hanging chads' were in Democratic precincts) where SCOTUS came down strongly on the side of the established powers right to voter fraud in close elections. So their claim voter fraud 'Might' sway a close election against the wishes of the American Voter is well informed.The irony of quoting SCOTUS on the far smaller issue of false ID voters is outstanding! So a few dozen here and a few hundred there balances thousands elsewhere if the bigger number is in favor of Republicans and the few are black, poor or immigrants? Taking 'Disingenuous' to constantly new heights? The glory of the American Right and it's unconscious recruitment behind the financial elite. Check your logic The chads were in Democratic precincts, with Democrat voting commissions, see the problem? Also only Democratic precincts were recounted (being most likely to get more Democratic votes). This was the reason SCOTUS voted against them they only wanted to recount in places that would help Democrats. Not one of those claims is true.

BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 6:58:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Why, when there isn't any voting fraud to begin with? Why make up a costly solution for a problem that doesn't exist? Did you know that in the Wis. recall election that Milwaukee had a voter turnout of 120%. No evidence of fraud there. Because it didn't happen. http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/impressive-voter-turnout-for-recall-election-t15uajf-160606775.html Do not believe the crazy shit you read on right wing sites. Do not believe the crazy shit you read on left wing sites. How can a person live in Chicago and believe there is no voter fraud? Still researching You can "research" forever there was nothing unusual about Milwaukee city or county turnout in the recalls. You live in Chicago, what the rest of us call voter fraud you call SOP

Lucylastic -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 7:21:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Why, when there isn't any voting fraud to begin with? Why make up a costly solution for a problem that doesn't exist? Did you know that in the Wis. recall election that Milwaukee had a voter turnout of 120%. No evidence of fraud there. Because it didn't happen. http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/impressive-voter-turnout-for-recall-election-t15uajf-160606775.html Do not believe the crazy shit you read on right wing sites. Do not believe the crazy shit you read on left wing sites. How can a person live in Chicago and believe there is no voter fraud? Still researching You can "research" forever there was nothing unusual about Milwaukee city or county turnout in the recalls. You live in Chicago, what the rest of us call voter fraud you call SOP so you lie, then you pretend to research it, cant find it, so you say nothing, then you have the balls to come back with that? really?

BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 7:25:23 PM)
FR A case of massive voter fraud. Wisconsin County That 'Found' Lost Votes Apparently Has Major Voting Irregularities For Years... from the well,-look-at-that dept You may recall a little over a week ago we wrote about the Wisconsin county that magically found 14,000 votes in a recent (highly contested) election, after the very partisan County Clerk -- who had just been questioned for questionable methods of collecting election data -- said that she had "failed to save the results" in her original report. While this followup story is now about a week old, someone just sent it over to us. Apparently that particular county, Waukesha County, has a rather stunning history of voting irregularities, including having an astounding and totally unprecedented 97.63% voter turnout rate in 2004: Apparently in 2004 the polls in Waukesha were teeming with voters as the Waukesha County Clerk's office showed a 97.63% turn out. No, that's not a typo. 97.63% http://www.waukeshacounty.gov/... Of the 236,642 registered voters in Waukesha on Nov 2, 2004 apparently 231,031 of them came out in a hint of rain and drizzle and did their civic duty. Just to put this in perspective, Australia has compulsory (mandatory) voting and their turnout is 95%. And it's not just voter turnout that's suspiciously high. Voter registrations are unprecedented as well: In the 8 months leading into the 2004 Presidential Election there was a marginal 1.3% increase in the rolls netting about 3000 additional new voters. However in the 3 months after the election, which showed an anomalous 97.63% turn out, suddenly the rolls surged to the tune of almost 50,000 new voters and upped the rolls 20%. I suppose that's one way to even out a suspiciously high turn out. Furthermore, remember that first number I told you to hang on to? The 283,820 eligible voters in the county of Waukesha in July of 2004? This new surge in the voter rolls has now pushed total voter registration in Waukesha County to 99.5% of elegible voters being registered to vote by February of 2005. 99.5% of eligible voters registered? Wow. But, let's not stop there. The blogger who did this research also dug up the official election results data from the 2006 election in Waukesha County, and noticed that some of the elections appeared to have more votes than ballots were cast by a fairly large number: In the race for Governor/Lieutenant Governor there were a total of 176,112 votes cast. For Attorney General there were a total of 174,047 votes cast. And for Secretary of State there were a total 170,440 votes cast. So, look at the 3rd line of the top of that report...Total Ballots Cast: 156,804. So based on those numbers 20,000 extra votes were cast in the election that weren't actually accounted for in the ballots cast. To say the least, these numbers are pretty troubling if you believe in the integrity of democratic elections.

BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 7:29:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Why, when there isn't any voting fraud to begin with? Why make up a costly solution for a problem that doesn't exist? Did you know that in the Wis. recall election that Milwaukee had a voter turnout of 120%. No evidence of fraud there. Because it didn't happen. http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/impressive-voter-turnout-for-recall-election-t15uajf-160606775.html Do not believe the crazy shit you read on right wing sites. Do not believe the crazy shit you read on left wing sites. How can a person live in Chicago and believe there is no voter fraud? Still researching You can "research" forever there was nothing unusual about Milwaukee city or county turnout in the recalls. The only thing I have found on is Huffington post which claims the DA didn't have a problem with anything that happened. But Huffington would find someone to whitewash it if Walker had been assassinated. No reliable sources either way so far.

DomKen -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 10:17:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR A case of massive voter fraud. Wisconsin County That 'Found' Lost Votes Apparently Has Major Voting Irregularities For Years... from the well,-look-at-that dept You may recall a little over a week ago we wrote about the Wisconsin county that magically found 14,000 votes in a recent (highly contested) election, after the very partisan County Clerk -- who had just been questioned for questionable methods of collecting election data -- said that she had "failed to save the results" in her original report. While this followup story is now about a week old, someone just sent it over to us. Apparently that particular county, Waukesha County, has a rather stunning history of voting irregularities, including having an astounding and totally unprecedented 97.63% voter turnout rate in 2004: Apparently in 2004 the polls in Waukesha were teeming with voters as the Waukesha County Clerk's office showed a 97.63% turn out. No, that's not a typo. 97.63% http://www.waukeshacounty.gov/... Of the 236,642 registered voters in Waukesha on Nov 2, 2004 apparently 231,031 of them came out in a hint of rain and drizzle and did their civic duty. Just to put this in perspective, Australia has compulsory (mandatory) voting and their turnout is 95%. And it's not just voter turnout that's suspiciously high. Voter registrations are unprecedented as well: In the 8 months leading into the 2004 Presidential Election there was a marginal 1.3% increase in the rolls netting about 3000 additional new voters. However in the 3 months after the election, which showed an anomalous 97.63% turn out, suddenly the rolls surged to the tune of almost 50,000 new voters and upped the rolls 20%. I suppose that's one way to even out a suspiciously high turn out. Furthermore, remember that first number I told you to hang on to? The 283,820 eligible voters in the county of Waukesha in July of 2004? This new surge in the voter rolls has now pushed total voter registration in Waukesha County to 99.5% of elegible voters being registered to vote by February of 2005. 99.5% of eligible voters registered? Wow. But, let's not stop there. The blogger who did this research also dug up the official election results data from the 2006 election in Waukesha County, and noticed that some of the elections appeared to have more votes than ballots were cast by a fairly large number: In the race for Governor/Lieutenant Governor there were a total of 176,112 votes cast. For Attorney General there were a total of 174,047 votes cast. And for Secretary of State there were a total 170,440 votes cast. So, look at the 3rd line of the top of that report...Total Ballots Cast: 156,804. So based on those numbers 20,000 extra votes were cast in the election that weren't actually accounted for in the ballots cast. To say the least, these numbers are pretty troubling if you believe in the integrity of democratic elections. We all know about Republican vote rigging which is what that is (Waukesha is famous for it). That is not a case of individual vote fraud but of the county clerk just making up numbers. However that is not Milwaukee. It is the next county west.

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