RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/10/2014 10:18:39 PM)

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Why, when there isn't any voting fraud to begin with?

Why make up a costly solution for a problem that doesn't exist?

Did you know that in the Wis. recall election that Milwaukee had a voter turnout of 120%.
No evidence of fraud there.

Because it didn't happen.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/impressive-voter-turnout-for-recall-election-t15uajf-160606775.html

Do not believe the crazy shit you read on right wing sites.

Do not believe the crazy shit you read on left wing sites.
How can a person live in Chicago and believe there is no voter fraud?
Still researching

You can "research" forever there was nothing unusual about Milwaukee city or county turnout in the recalls.

The only thing I have found on is Huffington post which claims the DA didn't have a problem with anything
that happened.
But Huffington would find someone to whitewash it if Walker had been assassinated.
No reliable sources either way so far.


I gave you the turnout number. It was in the mid 50's not over 100 like you claimed.




cloudboy -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 6:05:01 AM)


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so you lie, then you pretend to research it, cant find it, so you say nothing, then you have the balls to come back with that?
really?


I've gotten frustrated myself here and have finally decided to let it go. A debate with him is all about what he thinks, and it is not about facts in the real world. Because voter ID laws are fine with him, all is right with the world. Would be nice if Owner turned out correct, and the Voter ID laws disproportionately affected the Republican's own base, but I don't think that's the case.

The VOTER ID laws are really a form of Soviet Style governance, and I feel it is related to the other thread of why right wingers have a man-crush on Putin.




DesideriScuri -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 6:45:27 AM)

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama
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I feel no need to change things to correct a problem that does not exist. Next, assuming 100 votes are fraudulently cast in an election, and mind you that is a high figure, the likes of which has never been reported anywhere in the past 30 years, I would see no need to restrict voting practices --- an act that might well prevent thousands of people from voting.

http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf
...As many as 11 percent of United States citizens – more than 21 million individuals – do not have government-issued photo identification. Eleven percent of the [voting age] American citizens surveyed responded that they do not have current, unexpired government-issued identification with a photograph, such as a driver’s license or military ID.
Using 2000 census calculations of the citizen voting-age population, this translates to more than 21 million American adult citizens nationwide who do not possess valid government photo ID.
[Elderly, minority, and low income students are less likely to possess valid government photo ID.]
Survey results: proof of citizenship
As many as 7% of United States citizens – 13 million individuals – do not have ready access to citizenship documents. Seven percent of the American citizens surveyed responded that they do not have ready access to U.S. passports, naturalization papers, or birth certificates.2 Using 2000 census calculations of the citizen voting-age population, this translates to more than 13 million American adult citizens nationwide who cannot easily produce documentation proving their citizenship.3
Citizens with comparatively low incomes are less likely to possess documentation proving their citizenship.
Citizens earning less than $25,000 per year are more than twice as likely to lack ready documentation of their citizenship as those earning more than $25,000.4 Indeed, the survey indicates that at least 12 percent of voting-age American citizens earning less than $25,000 per year do not have a readily available U.S. passport, naturalization document, or birth certificate.5
Documentation proving citizenship often does not reflect the citizen’s current name.
Many of those who possess ready documentation of their citizenship do not have documentation that reflects their current name. For example, survey results show that only 48% of voting-age women with ready access to their U.S. birth certificates have a birth certificate with current legal name 6 – and only 66% of voting-age women with ready access to any proof of citizenship have a document with current legal name. 7
Using 2000 census citizen voting-age population data, this means that as many as 32 million voting-age women may have available only proof of citizenship documents that do not reflect their current name.


None of that matters, kali. It doesn't matter how many "voting age" citizens fall into any of those categories. The only thing that really matters is how many voters - citizens who vote - don't have the necessary ID's. I couldn't care less if someone doesn't have an ID to vote when they aren't going to vote. I think we had 65% voter turnout in 2012. 35% of voting age citizens didn't exercise their opportunity to weigh in on government leadership.

How many voters didn't have a qualified ID? That's the only argument that has any bearing on this topic.




mnottertail -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 6:46:58 AM)

And voting is not driving a car.  Fuck IDs.




thishereboi -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 6:52:12 AM)


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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.nbc29.com/story/22627644/bassett-man-pleads-guilty-to-voter-fraud-forgery
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/19/virginia-republican-pleads-guilty-to-dozens-of-counts-of-voter-fraud/
http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/04/418963/indiana-secretary-of-state-convicted-of-voter-fraud/
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/republicans-test-for-voting-fraud-wind-up-in-custody



Well those can't be right. Didn't someone on here just tell us there was NO voter fraud anywhere?




Lucylastic -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 6:58:29 AM)

duh




Lucylastic -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 7:12:59 AM)

quite honestly I live where you need ID to vote, to get an ID card, is 35$ I carry mine around with me everywhere, because altho I have my passport I dont have a drivers license, I only use my passport when I cross over into the US.
What I find is hilariously stupid is that the whinging about freedom from a government database or gun registry is BAD and leads to being assaulted with RFIDs
but the minorities/poor must be made to assimilate and be on a registry. One rule for them and another rule for people they hate......Thats what makes me spit with derision

as an aside
you need ID to get a piercing in some parts of the US *yes I was refused*
even tho Im obviously over 18, and then some.




thishereboi -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 7:27:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quite honestly I live where you need ID to vote, to get an ID card, is 35$ I carry mine around with me everywhere, because altho I have my passport I dont have a drivers license, I only use my passport when I cross over into the US.
What I find is hilariously stupid is that the whinging about freedom from a government database or gun registry is BAD and leads to being assaulted with RFIDs
but the minorities/poor must be made to assimilate and be on a registry. One rule for them and another rule for people they hate......Thats what makes me spit with derision

as an aside
you need ID to get a piercing in some parts of the US *yes I was refused*
even tho Im obviously over 18, and then some.




Right now in Michigan you have to have id to collect any kind of financial aid so the poor here already have to have id whether they ever attempt to vote or not. You also need it to attend school, open a bank account or get a job. It has nothing to do with race or financial standing. Yet when id is required to vote everyone gets their panties in a wad. Instead of trying to fight the id laws why aren't the left out there getting everyone id so they can vote. Seems alot simpler to me and if it's true that the law is only out there to stop those poor widdle dems from voting (yes I know it's bullshit) then that would solve the problem because everyone would have id. Of course that won't happen because they don't really care if everyone gets to vote, they only care about making the other side look bad.




Lucylastic -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 7:37:02 AM)

so they havent been gerry mandering and doing what they can to shut down early voting and weekend voting????
BTW groups have been helping the elderly disabled and poor get ids
bloody hell surely you know that...
http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/projects/voting_rights/page?id=0125
http://www.voteriders.org/voter-id
http://www.866ourvote.org/pages/voter-id-toolkits
http://www.alternet.org/story/155142/voting_rights_uprising%3A_activists_in_three_states_help_gop's_targets_get_voter_id

links are from before 2012 election




mnottertail -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 7:40:23 AM)

I dont see any reason to have an ID to vote, unless there is a supportable constitutional amendment.





RockaRolla -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 7:42:03 AM)

I disagree. Without providing identifying information it is easier for voters to abuse the system. Unless you have a better idea that the person voting as Joe Blow is actually Joe Blow?




mnottertail -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 7:43:57 AM)

Well, so long as we can take away all guns, then I guess I would go voter id, we throwing constitutional shit out the door and all.  I dont give a fuck about Joe Blow, you aint gonna win an election voting 5 times or a hundred. 




BamaD -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 9:47:44 AM)


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ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

I disagree. Without providing identifying information it is easier for voters to abuse the system. Unless you have a better idea that the person voting as Joe Blow is actually Joe Blow?

They say there is no fraud while fighting anything that would catch and stop it.




mnottertail -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 9:59:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

I disagree. Without providing identifying information it is easier for voters to abuse the system. Unless you have a better idea that the person voting as Joe Blow is actually Joe Blow?

They say there is no fraud while fighting anything that would catch and stop it.


They say there is no need to fix real problems in our society and our economy while fighting anything that wouild catch and stop it.





kalikshama -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 10:00:45 AM)

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I disagree. Without providing identifying information it is easier for voters to abuse the system. Unless you have a better idea that the person voting as Joe Blow is actually Joe Blow?


Do you vote? I ask because I want to make sure you are familiar with the procedure.




kalikshama -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 10:01:54 AM)

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None of that matters, kali. It doesn't matter how many "voting age" citizens fall into any of those categories. The only thing that really matters is how many voters - citizens who vote - don't have the necessary ID's. I couldn't care less if someone doesn't have an ID to vote when they aren't going to vote. I think we had 65% voter turnout in 2012. 35% of voting age citizens didn't exercise their opportunity to weigh in on government leadership.

How many voters didn't have a qualified ID? That's the only argument that has any bearing on this topic.


As someone who has done voter registration drives in previous election cycles and plans to do so again this cycle, I disagree.




Moonhead -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 11:30:50 AM)


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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Instead of trying to fight the id laws why aren't the left out there getting everyone id so they can vote.

What, you mean like that Acorn organisation (which we hear hilarious amounts of bitching about every election you guys hold) is there to?




kdsub -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 12:01:42 PM)

As far as I can find there was nothing in the Constitution explicitly governing voting… That was left to the states.

Through legislation the voting acts bill spelled out additional regulations for voting. These new regulations prohibited literacy tests…big mistake…or any practice that would result in a denial of the right to vote based on race or language minority status.

The state’s right to regulate voting within the Voting Rights act is spelled out. The requirement for a picture ID does not reasonably deny anyone a vote based on the law and or the Constitution… I think…sometimes government makes things way more complicated and confusing than they need be.

I am just wondering if those against these new laws would still be against them if realistic provisions were enacted that made it within the means of the poor and disabled to get an ID? Otherwise would you be willing to compromise to appease the real worries of conservatives as long as a real effort was made to help with registration for those that need it?

Butch




Moonhead -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 12:10:55 PM)


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ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am just wondering if those against these new laws would still be against them if realistic provisions were enacted that made it within the means of the poor and disabled to get an ID?

II suppose the real cynics would argue that no such provisions are likely to be enacted as the point of the laws is to prevent the poor and disabled from voting, and the alleged "conservative concerns" are just an excuse used to justify the legislation.

As for a compromise, I don't get the impression that's how you do politics in America.




mnottertail -> RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID (2/11/2014 12:18:44 PM)

Yeah, voting, there shall be no poll taxes, it was amended.   at $35 to get an ID is a poll tax.

But voting is not a states rights issue anymore, even though it is cleary meant to be one by the constitution,  this is due to the nutsackers; see: Bush v Gore, 2000. They made a federal trump of the voting laws. 




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