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Social issues - 7/6/2006 9:37:07 AM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline 		     As a male submissive I have found that out in the rest of the world (non life style settings) that being submissive to a Lady gets very strange reactions and I am just wondering is it something others see as well.
     I am not talking about going out for a walk on a leash that gets looks anyways but why is it society sees it ok if I rush to open the door for Her but if She reaches across the table to grab the check that is always placed in front of me W/we get strange looks from all around us and usually its not nice looks that I seem to be getting. Lets not forget the reaction on the face of the person taking our order when She not only orders for Herself but for me as well.
     It seems to me that a male submissive/slave has to fight upbringing and social values that the man is the one that takes charge of the relationship, that the man is responsible to ensure there is food on the table. I myself have had a few issues with this in relationships, I have been told that I have to let go of this conditioning and have but it was not an easy to do at first.
     There are times I have sat back and wondered am I ok, do I have something wrong with me mentally because of what I crave and desire and show in my submission. This is not helped by my family and friends always trying to find out why I let the Ladies in my life be so dominate, am I alright, is there abuse, and so on. Why is it so hard to accept a male that is the submissive in a relationship?     I can see that at times female submissive and slaves would get the same response I am just wondering with the social belief that the man is the provider and takes care of things have other male submissive and slaves found this kind of social hurdle? Have female submissive and slaves found it to?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 10:38:32 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		lanwolf,

In the end, it doesn't matter what looks you get or what anyone else thinks. Their shit is their shit, not yours. Be who you are. I know, easier said thatn done, but something to continually strive for.

Master Fire



_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 10:42:34 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		It's a knee-jerk reaction, plain and simple.  For centuries, even thousands of years, we were taught to view the man as the provider, the strong one, the breadwinner.  Such ideas unfortunately don't die overnight.  Even someone who knows that this is just a stereotype now, but hasn't witnessed male submission often is likely to raise an eyebrow without even realizing they're doing it.

Breeding is a strong force, one that most people don't even think about and one that takes concious work to change.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 11:11:46 AM   
luckyslaveboync


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/18/2005
Status: offline 		Submission is just deeper devotion, at least to this sub. Vanilla society equates male submissiveness with being a wimp with being unable to protect and meet a woman's needs/desires. Of course such vanillas have probably never met an actual happily-coupled male submissive and their Better half, so they are blissfully unaware that their view is simply erroneous crap.

Most women desire devotion and the fact is that a submissive male is more likely than a "macho" male to provide it. Of course this does not keep vanilla women from chasing after men who fit their image of a "strong" man, the lure of "bad boys," etc.  Often it is only later in life that the light bulb turns on and the thought occurs that if a woman wants devotion, she needs a man who enjoys being devoted and who enjoys pleasing. That type of man is submissive in lucky's book, whether or not the specific practices involved fit any specific version of femdom. 

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 11:17:18 AM   
alovingslavegirl


Posts: 10
Joined: 7/6/2006
Status: offline 		It is true that in most societies---ie ours--- the man is expected to be the dominant party, while the girl is supposed to be submissive. In all honesty, that is the way i personally see things...it was actually my justification when i was younger to explore the lifestyle.
i'm not saying that its wrong or unnatural...its just the way the culture is.

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 11:37:38 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		It is in how society views things.  You are right when Master opens the car door for me or we go out and he pays the check noone  thinks anything of it, it is almost expected in society.  I know it is hard but try to ignore the looks as long as you and you Mistress are happy then who cares what others think.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to alovingslavegirl)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 12:09:17 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I once trained with a Master who expected me to open doors for him, go the bar, hold his coat for him and all the other things in general society he would have been expected to do for me. Yes we got some really weird looks but to be honest i couldnt have cared less. If what you are doing is right for you why care what the world thinks?
Everyone has something wrong with them mentally lol. Noone is perfect and noone can claim to be the 'norm' because there is no such thing. I dont like words like normal, kinky, fetish for reasons just as this.
Society dictated men should open doors, hold coats, get the check and society will never really change in its opinion of this.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 2:05:58 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am not surprised that male subs would be treated by society the way you are when you go out with your mistress.

That being said female subs get looked at weirdly too at times. I can imagine that if a sub followed a man at a few paces and opened doors for him she would be gawked at. My Daddy opens doors for me in public and I am to walk in before him and we still get stares for this! The waitress asks me what I want in a restaurant before my Dom because waitresses are taught that it is good manners to ask the female first.... They look at me strange sometimes when Daddy orders for me. We have not been out but about a dozen times, but they sometimes do react slightly.

Women these days are taught to do it for themselves, so the outward sign that they are not doing this makes them stand out. Most chivalry is dead, so people react when they see it on a nonverbal level, and not always positively. We are culturally taught women can go it alone, do not need a man, and that if they do they are weak. It is silliness to me, but that is the message we have given to women. Women are not necessarily off the hook when out with their Dom when he shows dominance over them by the "little things" that he does.. and believe me, it is the smallest of things that people unconsciously pick up when you interact in front of them.

On the postive side, some people react well to seeing slight cues of male dominance... perhaps in that way it is different gender wise.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 2:06:27 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		I've read several of your posts, and have yet to reply...until now.  I think you need to do some soul-searching and decide what is right for you.  You seem to lack confidence in your decisions.  This is not a state of "submissiveness", but rather a state of "insecurity".  Once you are comfortable with your decisions and who you are - you won't worry about others accepting you - especially insignificant people to your life like a server in a restaurant.  (you don't know what THEY are up to...perhaps they are amused in a good way - who knows, who cares?) 

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 2:24:28 PM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alovingslavegirl

It is true that in most societies---ie ours--- the man is expected to be the dominant party, while the girl is supposed to be submissive. In all honesty, that is the way i personally see things...it was actually my justification when i was younger to explore the lifestyle.
i'm not saying that its wrong or unnatural...its just the way the culture is.



     Ok so that being said then how do you view male submissive/slaves. I am not trying to start something here I am just interested in seeing how we are viewed. Another thing that I run into, not just the social stereotype of a man in a relationship is that in the lifestyle, at least in the community I am in there seems to be a mistrust of male submissive and slaves due to a very large amount of posers, men looking for just kinky sex or wanting to turn it around and end up Toping the Lady. Again not something I let bother me anymore but it is out there and it makes it hard to find One to be with.
     I am more interested in seeing if other submissive/slaves have run into this type of stuff. I am interested in seeing if this is a local thing or something that occurs on a larger scale

< Message edited by lanwolf -- 7/6/2006 2:32:07 PM >

(in reply to alovingslavegirl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 2:31:23 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		And the point is?
We know this already it has been stated in most of the posts back to you.
Have you read them?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 2:59:33 PM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline 		     Thanks for your input baby I do appreciate it. I have to say that 7 years ago when I started the journey of discovering and exploring my submission yes I was insecure about who I was why did I want this and so on. Now though I would have to say I am not but that being said you have the right to view me as you wish to as dose anyone on these boards what matters to me most is how I see myself.
    The thread was not started because I feel insecure over the reactions of others when I am out with my Dom. There was a thread started that I was following that went to this tangent and instead of taking it over I figure why not start a new one. Personally the only people that matter are myself and my Dom otherwise I don’t care what others say or how they act but it is there and I wanted more to talk about how society views the acts in general and is it something that’s more local or worldwide.    I am more interested in seeing what types of social issues are out there that we as BDSM lifestyle choice people mainly the other submissive and slaves, as that’s where I see myself as a submissive. I hope by starting the thread to understand the issues out there that might affect us all and learn and grow from that. I do not see myself as uncertain or insecure more curious and looking to expand and grow in different directions

(in reply to babysburnin)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:08:48 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

And the point is?
We know this already it has been stated in most of the posts back to you.
Have you read them?


Thank you.  I think our advice is falling on deaf ears. 

IanWolf - "Perversion" goes back to the dawn of time.  People are more simliar than not-alike everywhere...Canada is no exception.  Stop looking OUTSIDE for issues you need to address INSIDE.

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:11:12 PM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline 		     Yes I have read them and I can see how not just a male submissive is looked at when there Mistress acts in a Dominate fashion but also the female submissive when the Master is. She had said even in the lifestyle men are looked at to be the Dominate partner and the women submissive. I just wounded how she feels about male submissive now has her views changed.     I have been in the lifestyle for awhile and while the views of others is not an issue to me anymore, I am who I am, there are a lot of new people out there experiencing these things and running from the lifestyle. I not only started the thread and posted examples of what social issues I have encountered and asked if others have seen or run into similar things for just myself but in hopes that we can share these kind of things so that newer people to the lifestyle just starting out can also see no your not alone and in the end as long as your happy who cares. The only person a submissive/slave should be worried about beside them selves is the One there with at that time.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:14:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I understood your question Ian, and I personally find it valid food for thought. Thanks for your posts, they make me think

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:24:04 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry, you were writing whilst I was - apparently.  I'll get on my high-horse for a second, only long enough to address what you are asking...

I suppose it depends on the nature of the community you live in, whether it's more liberal or conservative, as to how well venturing from the norm is perceived.  (I'm not an expert on Canada - although my relatives were Canucks, lol.) 

Didn't anyone ever tell you, "No matter what you do, there will be people who like you, and people who will not." ?  I think that applies no matter what community you live in.  The trick is to be respectful, but not care about "the others".   

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:26:10 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I'm not questioning your question. It is as valid as any other. What i do find worrying is that in other threads i have seen u post in it always comes down to social issues. I do truly think you may not be as comfy with your position in life as you try to claim.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:46:25 PM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline 		     Well thanks for saying that missturbation and that could be due to the social anxiety that I am in treatment for but I really personally happy and secure submitting and being a submissive  

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 3:50:00 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I wish you all the best in your treatment and ur submission.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Social issues - 7/6/2006 4:41:48 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Stereotypes are prisons for the soul.

I wish we could all be free of them.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/6/2006 4:42:27 PM >

(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 20
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