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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/11/2014 10:54:46 PM

BitYakin

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its used in texas I know and possibly some other southern states, but in a place as far north as say st Louis where it has to be buried below the frost line (st Louis 36") no plastic is durable enough to withstand the external pressures

the HOT SHIT now is pipe called PEX, comes in 100' rolls, but INSIDE the house ONLY

heh its even color coded red for hot and blue for cold!

PS. ALL new drain lines are PVC, ABS has been outlawed, here in st Louis most MAIN sewer lines are still CLAY, but all new branch drain lines are now PVC

BTW,I didn't mean to derail the topic here and we are getting WAYYYYYYYYYYY off topic heheh

I only brought up lead because its SOOOO easy to work with the average person could fashion MANY things from it, you don't need a KILN or FORGE to work it, a campfire a pot a flat rock and a hammer and you could make MANY things from a slab of lead

for instance a SHOWER PAN a drain line, a patch for your roof, without some knowledge and skill a waterline would be a bit harder to make

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 2/11/2014 11:04:26 PM >

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/11/2014 11:02:35 PM

epiphiny43

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Lead for water pipes? It leaches into the water. Not a good idea at all.

...here is the TRICK, the line will coat itself INSIDE with calcuim from the water that passed threw it...

Not that many places. Hard water, yes, soft water (less calcium in the water supply) and you get quite a lot of lead from the piping in the drinking water. One city or region is not everywhere. And by the time deposits make the piped water 'safe' small children, (who are Far more affected by lead poisoning during early nervous system development. Including old plumbers who grew up around lead pipes) drinking water from the new pipes are permanently damaged. We used to just allow for 'slow' kids and people who were always 'sickly'. One of the big reasons is now known.
Sorry to bear bad news, but if you have been working with lead pipes all your career, we sort of have to discount whatever you say or have said? Studies on occupational and hobby exposure to lead (Vast data base of hand loading and self-casting of bullets and cartradges to study) strongly indicates there is No safe lead exposure and CNS damage is proportional to toxic load and time exposed. Memory is one of the casualties.
May I STRONGLY suggest you investigate lead chelation therapy? You might soon feel a Lot better!
Start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning, Got symptoms?? Read on down.

I'm doubting 30 or 40% of St Louis homes were even built before lead pipes were outlawed. Maybe in the aging urban core.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 2/11/2014 11:03:01 PM >

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 22

RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/11/2014 11:26:25 PM

BitYakin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Lead for water pipes? It leaches into the water. Not a good idea at all.

...here is the TRICK, the line will coat itself INSIDE with calcuim from the water that passed threw it...

Not that many places. Hard water, yes, soft water (less calcium in the water supply) and you get quite a lot of lead from the piping in the drinking water. One city or region is not everywhere. And by the time deposits make the piped water 'safe' small children, (who are Far more affected by lead poisoning during early nervous system development. Including old plumbers who grew up around lead pipes) drinking water from the new pipes are permanently damaged. We used to just allow for 'slow' kids and people who were always 'sickly'. One of the big reasons is now known.
Sorry to bear bad news, but if you have been working with lead pipes all your career, we sort of have to discount whatever you say or have said? Studies on occupational and hobby exposure to lead (Vast data base of hand loading and self-casting of bullets and cartradges to study) strongly indicates there is No safe lead exposure and CNS damage is proportional to toxic load and time exposed. Memory is one of the casualties.
May I STRONGLY suggest you investigate lead chelation therapy? You might soon feel a Lot better!
Start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning, Got symptoms?? Read on down.

I'm doubting 30 or 40% of St Louis homes were even built before lead pipes were outlawed. Maybe in the aging urban core.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but I have drank from lead water lines practically my ENITRE LIFE, and worked WITH lead water lines most of my adult life and I'll be HAPPY to sit down with you and take an IQ test and compare our scores

and I'll ABSOLUTLEY GUARENTEE you inside the st Louis city limits at one time as recently as say 1960 90% of the buildings had LEAD water services!

and UNLESS said houses have had their water services replaced since about 1960 they STILL have lead water services...

AS OF TODAY, unless your rehab or remodel project is replacing over50% of the entire value of the house you are NOT required to replace a lead water service

PS, the average age of houses in st louis is aprox 100 years.... MY house was built prior to 1874

the outside city limit is the edge of forest park, where the 1904 world fair was held. 1904 sir, that 110 years ago. now I am not saying no new housing was built since then but BY THEN the city was prettyyyy much BUILT. I promise you by the 1950's when they stopped using lead water services, there was prescious little undeveloped land left

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 2/11/2014 11:32:23 PM >

(in reply to epiphiny43)

Post #: 23

RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/11/2014 11:38:50 PM

BitYakin

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try this lil experiment, take a nice clean glass, fill it with tap water the set it aside and let the water evaporate...

now look at the glass, bet you anything it has a slight white coating. that sir is CALCUIM, it does not take very long at all for the coating to develop...

it will happen with st Louis water which apparently pretttty good since a few years ago AB got a slap on the wrist for loading tanker trucks of city water to take to breweries in other parts of the country to make beer

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 1:51:23 AM

TNDommeK

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I skipped ahead and posted.
First aid/ alcohol. I worry about cutting myself or hurting myself and dying of
It. I also wonder what will happen if a tooth needs pulling or a leg breaks.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 3:56:22 AM

ARIES83

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Medicine and oral care are pretty 'big deal' items in my book.
I would imagine with medicine though, long term stockpiling isn't really an option in a lot of cases, due to expiry dates.

I have to agree with the people who have said Silver was a pretty bad choice. I would definitely prefer to have a shed full of useful items or storable foods, over a stash of silver.

OsideGirl,
Are you or your partner Italian? I've had a lemon spirit at an Italian restaurant before. The owner apparently made it.
If it's similar to that, I actually really liked it, tho it was sour as hell.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 6:23:15 AM

tommonymous

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The discussion on lead piping in plumbing (Which is a completely different, though related, application from lead as a cooking or serving vessel.) has been interesting, a lightbulb went on for me regarding Roman aqueducts. But, if we're talking survivalism here, I have to ask: Who's actually worried about piping water anywhere? Find a discreet and potable (or easily-made-potable) source, and carry what you need. Don't visit the same place so often that people see a well-worn path and decide to follow it.

I wouldn't be too worried about trade value of goods. I'd only be worried about the putting-food-in-Tom's-belly-and-keeping-threats-mitigated value. So, food and water procurement and storage stuff (some of this will overlap with the threat-mitigation stuff). Also, I think the value of spices was a brilliant observation. The weren't valuable simply because they made food taste more yummier, but because they helped preserve it or make iffy food palatable.

As an aside: Does anyone know why my browser's spellcheck calls out words like "survivalism", "lightbulb", and "spellcheck", but gives a pass to words like "yummier" and "iffy"?

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Post #: 27

RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 6:31:54 AM

tommonymous

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OsideGirl, I guess I might be asking an indiscreet question here (tapping into your post-apocalyptic food bowl and all that) but would you care to post your lemon wine recipe, either here or in the food and beverages section? It sounds delicious...

And I guess the thread begs the question: Aries, are we talking prepping here for something like a short-term (one to six months) disruption of government services, or are we talking a significant-but-somehow-survivable meteor strike that forces us to write off any kind of previous society? The two scenarios have different needs, I suppose. Seeds would be very valuable in the long term, but pretty worthless in the short term...

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And just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it will (or ought to) work for everyone.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 6:54:45 AM

MasterCaneman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Then you are also aware that the reason Roman emperors were crazy was a result of lead poisoning from water being carried in lead pipes.

Nooo, they went crazy from using lead for making drinking vessels out of it, and boiling grape juice in lead pots to produce frutum, used to sweeten wine. Lead acetate has been used as a sweetener for centuries until it was outlawed because it drove people insane. They also created a sweet drink called by pouring an acidic fruit juice into lead cups to extract the acetate directly.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 6:58:19 AM

MasterCaneman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

YES I would say in an EXTREME world, 22lr's could become the STANDARD monetary system

Up in my neck of the woods(NYS), .22LR is about as common as hen's teeth thanks to all the hoarders around here. I could probably use them now as a medium of exchange, at least in my circle.

tommynonymous: Most of the suggestions would work in either instance, I think. Let's face it, everyone here would experience profound changes if the supply system were shut down for more than a week when you think about it. Consider what happens now when there's a severe weather event such as a hurricane, tornado, or winter storm. The shelves tend to be stripped bare of things like milk, bread, diapers and toilet paper.

And even during a 'short-term' emergency, seeds can have uses if you 'sprout' them and use them as a foodstuff that way, depending on how many you have. They're tasty, nutritious, and quick-growing, although wasteful in the terms of offering only fractional benefits versus allowing to reach maturity before consumption. Fresh food goes a long way to keeping people's 'heads' on straight during events like this.

I'm also adding multivitamins and diapers to my laundry list above as well here. And duct tape, super glue, and sewing supplies. Those items have universal utility, and during a crisis, would be in short supply, if at all. Easier to mend clothes than to try to find replacements when the trucks can't deliver the basics to the stores.

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 2/12/2014 7:10:36 AM >

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 7:32:48 AM

Runningkc

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In five years I hope to be self dependent for 90% of my food sources. Raising my own poultry, beef, and pork. Growing all my own fruits, veggies, and spices.

This is strictly for prepper reasons, it's also very important to me health wise. That's about as far as my prepper tendencies go, for now.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 7:41:31 AM

MasterCaneman

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I'm a regular lurker on a prepper site, and I hear a lot of people are doing that as an alternative to the industrial agri-business practices of hormones and other yummy additives they use. I think that slowly, the image of a prepper as a cammie-wearing, gun-toting recluse whose ideology is to the far right of the John Birch Society is beginning to change.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 8:07:33 AM

ARIES83

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Well In regards to becoming self-sufficient, I encourage anyone interested to research Permaculture design principles.
Basically concepts and methods involved in getting the absolute most out of a piece of land.

If you were to apply Permaculture philosophy to a decent size backyard, Im confidant that area would come close to supplying the needs of an average size family.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 2/12/2014 8:10:29 AM >

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 8:46:26 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tommonymous

OsideGirl, I guess I might be asking an indiscreet question here (tapping into your post-apocalyptic food bowl and all that) but would you care to post your lemon wine recipe, either here or in the food and beverages section? It sounds delicious...

I have it posted in the recipes section. It's very yummy over ice and averages between 13% and 15% alcohol for us.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4494959

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 11:43:03 AM

MalcolmNathaniel

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"Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle is an interesting read. It's about a comet hitting the Earth and a bunch of JPL scientists who head to the hills.

That's where I got the idea of spices. An encyclopedia of various trade skills (carpentry, masonry, etc.) was among another scientists gear.

Remember that the question was what you would take as an exchange medium. That assumes that you've got enough gear to survive past the initial shock of civilization failing. Lead is a good idea, but not for the reasons stated by BitYakin. Add a couple of bullet molds and you'd be able to provide bullets. Still need gunpowder and primers, but it's a start. The recipes for gunpowder are well known, but primers are a bit harder. For the sake of this conversation I am assuming that the brass is recoverable most of the time.

As a total aside: I love "The Walking Dead" television show but it had one of the STUPIDEST sequences I've ever seen in the first season. They are looking for a bag of guns that a rival group had stolen.

"These days guns are worth more than gold."

Except they were in Georgia. If you can't lay your hands on a firearm in Georgia when 99.999% of the people are dead you deserve to be eaten by zombies.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 12:03:21 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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FR

I don't know how useful they'd be for trade, but I would want a major stockpile of sanitary towels/tampons, and some reliable method of birth control. Those are two modern comforts I would not willingly go without. I'm guessing other women would feel the same so they would maintain some value, albeit not at the level of food and fuel.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 1:14:36 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
The recipes for gunpowder are well known, but primers are a bit harder.

Assuming you aren't going to store the rounds for years before firing fulminate of mercury is fairly simple to make, if not to handle. It is only when you want a stable long term reload that things get real tricky.

If I was prepping I'd acquire a few thousand primers along with the rest of the necessary reload equipment for my preferred rounds.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 1:21:35 PM

MasterCaneman

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Loved that novel. It was one of the nuclei for the modern prep/survival movement, if I recall correctly.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 1:57:42 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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You also might like David Brin's "The Postman." The Costner movie was ATROCIOUS. The guy is a good actor but no-one should ever let him behind a camera ever again.

That has less to do with directly surviving and more to do with bringing back hope in a bleak world. There were no epic battles like in the Costner version, it was all about ideas. It had the least likely hero ever.

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RE: Emergency Preppers (storable commodities) - 2/12/2014 3:19:57 PM

ARIES83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

"Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle is an interesting read. It's about a comet hitting the Earth and a bunch of JPL scientists who head to the hills.

That's where I got the idea of spices. An encyclopedia of various trade skills (carpentry, masonry, etc.) was among another scientists gear.

I'll remember the name, sounds like an interesting read.

My Grandfather was something of a handyman, and while the older and more direct relations in my family got his army medals and musical instruments, I was able to obtain his gardening and handyman books.

(He was actually the person who first taught me how to make a garden and gave me chores like feeding chickens when I was 3-5 years old!)

The books detail very old methods of gardening and carpentry etc... If you were to follow the plans to the letter, you would end up with something that looks like it belongs in the 1940s but the good part is, you wouldn't need much more than a hand saw and pack of nails to do it!

And there are drawings and plans of every type of furniture etc you would ever need!
Unfortunately the gardening book is falling apart... But the hard cover handyman book is still like the day he bought it.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 2/12/2014 3:20:00 PM >

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