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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
The researchers you point to make an unjustified leap from observed and interpreted behavior to genetic imperative.

Indeed.

Invariably, this turns out to be the case when claims of a genetic imperative underlying human behaviour are made. The silliness of these claims becomes clearer when we recall that, in this particular instance, the alleged 'evidence' is a subjective account of infants interacting in a social setting.

How any evidence of this type could possibly point to innate qualities/genetic determination is beyond me.

A capacity for empathy lies at the heart of moral behavior and results in consistency even in the behavior of non-human animals which share that capacity. A half dozen or more links have been posted relevant to our innate sense of fairness and capacity for empathy even in infancy, as well as the discovery of a neurological basis for this capacity which is manifestly not "subjective" and which supports the observations that you dismiss as subjective.

Moreover, the phrase "genetic imperative" has appeared nowhere except in the posts of those seeking to make the findings disappear. It is wholly and completely a straw man. Nobody has claimed that moral behavior is an "imperative" of any kind, genetic or otherwise, and what could make you think that such a transparent ploy would gain you any traction is beyond me. But as you've mentioned silliness, I suppose that could be an explanation.

K.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Now it is a capacity for empathy but in your post #26 it was Human brains are hardwired for empathy, friendship

And the problem is? We have the capacity because we're hardwired for it. I'm sorry if saying that so many times made it hard for you to grasp.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

The "neurological basis" for this capacity is at best a basis for mimicry and learning.

Both imitation and empathy are mediated by mirror neurons, which are wired into both parieto-premotor circuits and the anterior insula and cingulate.

When someone posts links, the trick is to read them.

K.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Look people, the only genetic imperative is survival. It is the basest instinct in us. Good or Evil is not even in the top 10.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

The problem is the research is speculative at best... Just a silly and pointless discussion from you.

I don't need to look through your stupid telescope. ~Cesare Cremonini

K.

Score one for Kirata if you are keeping score.

However, here's my point: In this era of ever more sophisticated tools for genome mapping it is irresponsible for any researcher to claim an innate human behavior without specifying the particular genes and the protein (hormonal) pathway to the behavior. Anatomical structure and function are insufficient to make the case with such certitude.

SHOW ME THE GENES

Additionally, I am confounded by Kirata so energetically defending a determinist position; it seems such a contradiction to many of his previous comments in other threads.

(in reply to Kirata)

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Look people, the only genetic imperative is survival. It is the basest instinct in us. Good or Evil is not even in the top 10.

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Starving babies do not reject food from their mothers and gesture "no you take it" and push it towards their mothers' mouthes. Starving offspring take the food and gobble it up. There's no empathy for mom when it counts the most. Survival is everything.

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At a secondary level, caring behavior lends itself to survival of the group.

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I think we are hardwired to be selfish; that's survival. Children have to be taught to share. It's easy for them to share something they don't want or have plenty of.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Look people, the only genetic imperative is survival. It is the basest instinct in us. Good or Evil is not even in the top 10.

Really? Interesting. Is that a genetic imperative or a learned fear of death? Whoaaa . . .where did grandma go? Why is she starting to smell so foul?

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It is clearly evident in pinnipeds. This group of animals seem to know when there is a predator in the water, and therefor stay on the beach, never having to go in the water to see the shark or sharks that hunt them for food. Granted, eventually the need to eat pushes them to risk the danger, but they try to avoid becoming shark food.

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The primary imperative of any species is survival, if not the species goes extinct.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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It is clearly evident in pinnipeds. This group of animals seem to know when there is a predator in the water, and therefor stay on the beach, never having to go in the water to see the shark or sharks that hunt them for food. Granted, eventually the need to eat pushes them to risk the danger, but they try to avoid becoming shark food.

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The primary imperative of any species is survival, if not the species goes extinct.

The neo-Darwinist might say that the pinnipeds who survived were those who developed awareness of sharks. Those that perished lacked that mechanism. Seems to be a far cry from claiming an evolutionary imperative for survival. My objection is that the phrase reeks of teleological philosophy, that evolution 'knows' what it takes to pass on the genes. I think evolution is not so well organized or orderly as that. There is a lot of luck involved in a very messy and unpredictable process. Keep in mind we are looking backwards from the success stories and often forgetting the failures who were just plain unlucky.

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I said that we are programed to seek survival before anything else. There is no genetic code dealing with "good" or "evil," that is pretty farfetched to think evolution programed that into our genes.

As I said before, good is a relative term, relative to the society, and is learned at the family level. As we are social animals, survival means we work together as a group, but it does not mean that we do this out of some inborn genetic proclivity.