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RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 4:57:39 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I would have thought they would be more likely to be Catholic but that could be in part due to living next to a homophobic catholic most of my life.


Please don't form opinions about a large group using a sample size of 1. That's the worst way to do things.....ok maybe not the worst way, that would be ouija board. But it's a not too distant second.



You are so right. That would be as bad as claiming all religion is bad because some people use it to do bad things or all republicans are racist because I heard some of them say really shitty things or even all liberals are lazy because some of them would rather sit on welfare than hold down a job.

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(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 6:11:28 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Who knows....... I certainly dont since he never posts much that is relevant.

It only seems irrelevant to you because I'm not talking about the planet you live on.

One theory is that homosexual urges, when repressed out of shame or fear, can be expressed as homophobia... It’s a compelling theory — and now there is scientific reason to believe it. In this month’s issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, we and our fellow researchers provide empirical evidence that homophobia can result, at least in part, from the suppression of same-sex desire. ~New York Times, April 27, 2012

The evidence points to repressed homosexual arousal being the underlying cause of primary homophobia. But, in all fairness, that comes with the caveat that I only mean here on Earth.

K.



Lmfao........ I always took you as patronising but never as completely stupid...until now.

Are you really suggesting your link At least in part now equates to you claim Underlying cause


He got busted using a bad study and now he's desperate. Although this study is at least interesting.

He even had to ignore the concluding paragraph of the article he linked.
quote:

It’s important to stress the obvious: Not all those who campaign against gay men and lesbians secretly feel same-sex attractions. But at least some who oppose homosexuality are likely to be individuals struggling against parts of themselves, having themselves been victims of oppression and lack of acceptance. The costs are great, not only for the targets of anti-gay efforts but also often for the perpetrators. We would do well to remember that all involved deserve our compassion.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 6:35:31 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lmfao........ I always took you as patronising but never as completely stupid...until now.

You would benefit more from taking a look in the mirror.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Are you really suggesting your link At least in part now equates to you claim Underlying cause

The dynamics of repression and reaction formation have been observed in clinical settings for decades, and the available evidence confirms repressed homosexual arousal as the underlying cause of primary homophobia. It perhaps bears recalling that in the first study cited it was only the homophobes who responded with arousal to the homosexual stimuli.

A secondary form of homophobia can arise when children and youth internalize a fear and loathing of homosexuals communicated to them by significant caretakers and respected leaders. But while these internalized attitudes can be ameliorated through social pressure, as we are seeing today, ego-defenses tend to be refractive to influence.

In the final analysis, it is social pressure that produces both kinds of homophobes. But in the atheistic Soviet Union, the penal code required that "sexual relations between men" be punishable "by prison terms of up to five years,” whereas in the United States today the majority of mainline Protestants and Catholics are accepting of homosexuality.

So the point is, we are dealing here with the usual anti-religious bigots whose cranky blame-religion chorus is nothing more or less than a clown act fueled by ignorance and bile.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/19/2014 7:03:29 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 6:41:35 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He got busted using a bad study and now he's desperate.

Bad study my ass. It was well-designed, well-executed, and passed strict peer-review. In any other case, you'd complain if a study wasn't published in a major peer-reviewed journal. The only reason you're whining about this one is because it contradicts the twisted imaginings that you mistake for reality. And frankly, I'm surprised you're not used to that by now. They've always been wrong in the past.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/19/2014 6:59:39 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 7:01:45 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He got busted using a bad study and now he's desperate.

Bad study my ass. It was well-designed, well-executed, and passed strict peer-review. In any other case, you'd complain if a study wasn't published in a major peer-reviewed journal. The only reason you're whining about this one is because it contradicts the twisted imaginings that you mistake for reality. And frankly, I'm surprised you're not used to that by now. They've always been wrong in the past.

You really need to get your rage under control. When you get busted using crap studies from nearly 20 years ago and then get caught misrepresenting newer ones it is your own fault not anyone else's. Attacking me or Politesub won't change that.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 7:13:59 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You really need to get your rage under control. When you get busted using crap studies from nearly 20 years ago and then get caught misrepresenting newer ones it is your own fault not anyone else's. Attacking me or Politesub won't change that.

Heh. Mind-reading now? Your talents never cease to amaze me. I almost hate to tell you this, but you don't anger me, you disgust me. I consider you to be CM's premier liar, and apparently dumber than a box of hammers in the bargain.

And please don't consider that an attack, I'm being nice.

K.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 7:35:42 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

I wonder if it might help to distinguish between clinical homophobia and political/moral disapproval of homosexuality.

_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 8:00:41 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

I wonder if it might help to distinguish between clinical homophobia and political/moral disapproval of homosexuality.

Only in the sense that 'clinical phenomena' run the risk of being precisely that - phenomena that occur in clinics and nowhere else.

I'm far from convinced that homophobia(s), including the internalised varieties, has any origin other than in the political/moral sphere.

Can I recommend a study of the history of 'sexology' and in particular, medical/scientific discourses on human sexuality? When I was doing my thesis, I had to acquaint myself fairly deeply with this history and the 'literature' it produced. I started off taking it seriously as one should, but after not too long, my reaction to the incredible levels of sexism and sexual phobias permeating the literature was to take it as seriously as I take comics. I suspect comics have done far less damage though sometimes they fail to reach the stellar levels of comedy that characterise the literature. The title of Stoller's influential work "Perversion: The Erotic Form of Hatred" offers an insight into what I am referring to.

The lasting effect has been to leave me with a deep distrust of anything than emanates from so-called clinical/scientific/medical/psychological 'studies' of sexual behaviour and allied areas

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/19/2014 8:25:39 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 9:22:26 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

What I don't get about this, and probably never will . . .

I have *SO* much to do, to address, to work through, to maintain, that I can't imagine giving a fuck about what *anyone* does in their bedroom or *whomever* they marry (short of something that would harm either party).

I can't imagine a world where so many people have time to spare from their own busy lives to meddle with the lives of others so unnecessarily.

The "harming the institution of marriage" argument often touted is as ridiculous as the "they're stealing our Christmas" one -- in both case, if that's the case for you, your understanding of either is extremely weak and poor. That's your actual problem. Start there--with the self.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 10:39:26 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
When you get busted using crap studies from nearly 20 years ago and then get caught misrepresenting newer ones it is your own fault not anyone else's. Attacking me or Politesub won't change that.


Actually he misrepresented both studies:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Much as that graphic is one of GotSteel's favorites in his never ending campaign of anti-religious activism, we've known for decades that there is no direct connection between the belief that homosexual acts are sinful and a fear and loathing of homosexuals


In order to validly make this claim He'd have to explain the source of 100% of homophobia as coming from elsewhere. Even if we take the gay boner study as accurate it doesn't back up his claim because the study documented that a significant portion of it's homophobes didn't get gay boners.

Not that I'm arguing entirely against Haggard's Law mind you, there may well be some amount of truth to it. But considering the historically huge levels of homophobia and how strong of a correlation the study is claiming it would mean that the majority of men used to be secret-gay. Claiming the studies accuracy (or in K's case making bolder claims than the study actually does) leaves one with troubling questions such as how did no one notice that most men used to be attracted to other men and how did so much of that gayness just disappear in the last couple decades.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 11:40:02 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You really need to get your rage under control. When you get busted using crap studies from nearly 20 years ago and then get caught misrepresenting newer ones it is your own fault not anyone else's. Attacking me or Politesub won't change that.

Heh. Mind-reading now? Your talents never cease to amaze me. I almost hate to tell you this, but you don't anger me, you disgust me. I consider you to be CM's premier liar, and apparently dumber than a box of hammers in the bargain.

And please don't consider that an attack, I'm being nice.

Still unable to accept that you got busted I see. Whining won't change the facts and hurling insults won't either.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 11:45:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I wish you would learn that lesson yourself. Every part of it.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 11:52:18 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I wish you would learn that lesson yourself. Every part of it.

And here you are whining and throwing insults yourself. Why? Why do you feel the need to jump in to defend Kirata again? Didn't get smacked around for jumping in trying to defend him before teach you anything?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 11:55:20 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well, it was only a wish. I didn't expect you to actually learn anything.

That's the trouble with people who think they know it all. They're blind.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 12:10:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You really need to get your rage under control. When you get busted using crap studies from nearly 20 years ago and then get caught misrepresenting newer ones it is your own fault not anyone else's. Attacking me or Politesub won't change that.

Heh. Mind-reading now? Your talents never cease to amaze me. I almost hate to tell you this, but you don't anger me, you disgust me. I consider you to be CM's premier liar, and apparently dumber than a box of hammers in the bargain.

And please don't consider that an attack, I'm being nice.

Still unable to accept that you got busted I see. Whining won't change the facts and hurling insults won't either.

You haven't busted anybody. The study isn't "crap," and the fact that is was done in 1996 doesn't invalidate it. Those are just two more in the very long list of evidence-free pronouncements that you've made your specialty. Too, my comments were simply statements of fact. I suppose someone might quibble about the "premier" rating, but I doubt there are many who would deny you a place among the medalists. And while some might accord you at least the intelligence of a clam, I don't think you deserve it. A clam would have had enough sense to shut up long ago.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/19/2014 1:06:21 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 12:47:54 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Much as that graphic is one of GotSteel's favorites in his never ending campaign of anti-religious activism, we've known for decades that there is no direct connection between the belief that homosexual acts are sinful and a fear and loathing of homosexuals

In order to validly make this claim He'd have to explain the source of 100% of homophobia as coming from elsewhere.

When half of the religious are accepting of homosexuality (no conflict with their religious belief) and half are not, it should be apparent to even the meanest intellect that religion per se is not the common denominator here.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/19/2014 12:55:39 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 12:52:42 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Can I recommend a study of the history of 'sexology' and in particular, medical/scientific discourses on human sexuality? When I was doing my thesis, I had to acquaint myself fairly deeply with this history and the 'literature' it produced. I started off taking it seriously as one should, but after not too long, my reaction to the incredible levels of sexism and sexual phobias permeating the literature was to take it as seriously as I take comics...

The lasting effect has been to leave me with a deep distrust of anything than emanates from so-called clinical/scientific/medical/psychological 'studies' of sexual behaviour and allied areas

Well if that was the extent of your contact, believe me when I say (without elaborating further) that I can appreciate your feelings.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/19/2014 12:58:03 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 1:04:49 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I wonder if it might help to distinguish between clinical homophobia and political/moral disapproval of homosexuality.

At this point, dc, I think people would just say, "what difference does it make?"

K.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 2:15:47 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You really need to get your rage under control. When you get busted using crap studies from nearly 20 years ago and then get caught misrepresenting newer ones it is your own fault not anyone else's. Attacking me or Politesub won't change that.

Heh. Mind-reading now? Your talents never cease to amaze me. I almost hate to tell you this, but you don't anger me, you disgust me. I consider you to be CM's premier liar, and apparently dumber than a box of hammers in the bargain.

And please don't consider that an attack, I'm being nice.

Still unable to accept that you got busted I see. Whining won't change the facts and hurling insults won't either.

You haven't busted anybody. The study isn't "crap," and the fact that is was done in 1996 doesn't invalidate it. Those are just two more in the very long list of evidence-free pronouncements that you've made your specialty. Too, my comments were simply statements of fact. I suppose someone might quibble about the "premier" rating, but I doubt there are many who would deny you a place among the medalists. And while some might accord you at least the intelligence of a clam, I don't think you deserve it. A clam would have had enough sense to shut up long ago.

Anytime you actually want to put my intelligence to the test you can put your account where you mouth is.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: -=Federal Judge Strikes Down Virginia Gay Marriage ... - 6/19/2014 2:18:50 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, it was only a wish. I didn't expect you to actually learn anything.

That's the trouble with people who think they know it all. They're blind.

You are fucking hilarious. You think attacking the people who stand for reality is a good idea? You really think defending the guy who stands for psi and reparative therapy is where you want to plant your flag? ok.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 140
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