RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/20/2014 9:14:17 PM)

No. The jury simply has to, as happened in this case, apply a racial sensibility

He was not acquitted and what proof do you have of "racial sensibility"

Besides which, if the jury screws up the verdict you don't throw out the law.
Every law has come to a case were the jury got it wrong
Even the juror who somehow has the idea that Dunn got away with it says race had
nothing to do with the verdict.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/20/2014 9:15:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

JACKSONVILLE — A Florida jury found a software engineer guilty of attempted murder and shooting into a car full of teenagers, but they could not agree on first-degree murder in the death of one of the teenaged boys.

Thirty-one hours after deliberations over four days, a jury could not decide if Michael David Dunn, 47, was guilty of first-degree murder in the shooting death of Jordan Davis, 17, during a confrontation over loud rap music in a Jacksonville gas station parking lot.

Circuit Judge Russell Healey declared a mistrial on the first-degree murder count. State Attorney Angela Corey said after the verdict that her office would retry Dunn for first-degree murder.

The jury found Dunn guilty of three counts of attempted second-degree murder, each of which carries a 20-year minimum mandatory sentence. He was also found guilty of shooting a deadly missile during the November 2012 confrontation. That count is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

Dunn shot and killed Davis, who was sitting in his SUV with three of his friends. Dunn fired at the vehicle 10 times, hitting it nine times. He says he acted in self-defense.

The trial was the latest Florida case to raise questions about self-defense and race; Dunn is white and the teens were black. It came six months after George Zimmerman was acquitted of any crime for fatally shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, about 125 miles south of Jacksonville. The Dunn trial was prosecuted by the same State Attorney's Office as was the Zimmerman case.

Dunn showed no emotion as the verdicts were read. Davis' parents each left the courtroom in tears.

Healey announced late Saturday afternoon that the jury had reached a verdict on four of the five counts, but the jurors said they were unable to reach a unanimous verdict on count 1 — first-degree murder — or any of its lesser included offenses.

Healey brought the jurors into the courtroom and recited them an Allen charge, which is an instruction to continue deliberations and make a decision.

"By law, I cannot demand this of you, but I want you to go back into the jury room," he told the jurors.

He encouraged them to talk about "any weaknesses of your own position" and to "not interrupt each other or comment on each other's views until each of you has had a chance to talk."

After that, "if you simply cannot reach a verdict, then return to the courtroom and I will declare this case mistried as to that count," he said.

Healey recited their latest question: "We have reviewed the weaknesses of our position, and have more to talk about. If we are unable to agree and reach a verdict, is the entire case mistried or is the single count mistried?"

He told them only the single count would be mistried, not the entire case. The question came less than two hours after the jury announced it had reached a verdict on four of the five counts.

Dunn faced charges of first-degree murder, three counts of first-degree attempted murder, and one count of shooting or throwing a deadly missile. Jurors also were given the option of considering lesser charges of second-degree murder, manslaughter, second-degree attempted murder and attempted manslaughter.

Prosecutors said Dunn fired 10 bullets at a sport-utility vehicle containing Davis and three other black teenagers. Dunn testified on the witness stand that he feared for his life and thought Davis was armed with a shotgun. But detectives said no weapon was found in the SUV.

Dunn's trial started Feb. 3, and jury deliberations began Wednesday. About 4:50 p.m. Friday, Healey announced that the jury had a question: Is it possible to not reach a verdict on one count and reach a verdict on other counts?

"The answer to that is yes," Healey said.

If jurors deadlock on a count, for example, Healey said jurors could publish verdicts on the other four counts. A mistrial would be declared on the deadlocked count. Prosecutors could later retry Dunn on that count, at their discretion.

Including meal breaks, the jury deliberated about three hours Wednesday and nearly nine hours Thursday before resuming work about 9 a.m. Friday. The jury is composed of four white men, four white women, two black women, one Asian female and one Hispanic man. There are also four alternate jurors.

At 6:50 p.m. Friday, the jury told Healey that it had "reached a wall." Deliberations ended for the night, and the jurors were driven back to their hotel.

"This is one admirable group, I'm telling you what," Healey said. "They're clearly taking this thing as seriously as they should. And I couldn't be more proud for how hard they're working and the number of hours that they've been deliberating to try and resolve this case."

Dunn's jury has now deliberated longer than their counterparts during Central Florida's Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman trials. Journalists and spectators passed time Friday on the fourth floor of the Duval County Courthouse, looking at their phones and taking brief walks to stretch their legs.

Based on his research, Healey said it appears that jury deliberations can continue on Sunday, if necessary. Sunday would have been Davis' 19th birthday.

"We don't really want the jury's verdict to come down on his birthday. But it may be that way," his father, Ron Davis, said on the courthouse steps after deliberations ended.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/15/michael-dunn-jury/5501117/

Im so glad this didnt go the way of zimmy....
wait to see the retrial results, but hes gonna go away for a long time
FUCKIN A



So what?

The law said he wasn't guilty.

Get over it.




DomKen -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/20/2014 10:00:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. The jury simply has to, as happened in this case, apply a racial sensibility

He was not acquitted and what proof do you have of "racial sensibility"

Besides which, if the jury screws up the verdict you don't throw out the law.
Every law has come to a case were the jury got it wrong
Even the juror who somehow has the idea that Dunn got away with it says race had
nothing to do with the verdict.

3 jurors believed a plain lie. You can dance around the reason but we all know why.




Lucylastic -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 5:22:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie




So what?

The law said he wasn't guilty.

Get over it.

Erm no...
But thanks for coming in ten pages after the first post to denigrate it with misunderstanding..
Most excellent effort
[8|]




BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 9:44:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. The jury simply has to, as happened in this case, apply a racial sensibility

He was not acquitted and what proof do you have of "racial sensibility"

Besides which, if the jury screws up the verdict you don't throw out the law.
Every law has come to a case were the jury got it wrong
Even the juror who somehow has the idea that Dunn got away with it says race had
nothing to do with the verdict.

3 jurors believed a plain lie. You can dance around the reason but we all know why.

For the moment lets pretend you are right, the law is not responsible for juror bias.
Are you trying to claim that the jurors were biased because of SYG which was denied(had to be or there wouldn't)
have been a trial) or are you trying to get all of your own prejudices out in a single argument?




BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 9:47:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. The jury simply has to, as happened in this case, apply a racial sensibility

He was not acquitted and what proof do you have of "racial sensibility"

Besides which, if the jury screws up the verdict you don't throw out the law.
Every law has come to a case were the jury got it wrong
Even the juror who somehow has the idea that Dunn got away with it says race had
nothing to do with the verdict.

3 jurors believed a plain lie. You can dance around the reason but we all know why.

Where was the premeditation?
1st requires premeditation.
As usual Corey overcharged and got spanked.




Lucylastic -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 10:54:48 AM)


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-dunn-described-himself-as-victim-victor-after-killing-teenager-in-argument-over-music/

The man who shot and killed a teenager in Florida after an argument over loud music told his fiancee in a telephone call a month after his arrest that he was both the victim and the victor in the deadly encounter.

"You know I was thinking about that today, I was like I'm the f*** victim here, I was the one who was victimized," Michael Dunn said from jail in December 2012, a month after the shooting. "I mean I don't know how else to cut it, like they attacked me, I’m the victim. I'm the victor, but I was the victim too."

Dunn, a 47-year-old computer programmer, was convicted on Saturday of attempted murder for shooting into a car full of teenagers after the argument but the jury deadlocked on the most serious charge of first-degree murder. A mistrial was declared on the murder charge.

Dunn killed 17-year-old Jordan Davis in the parking lot of a Jacksonville gas station on the evening of Nov. 23, 2012. Dunn fired 10 shots at the red Dodge Durango that Davis and three other teens were riding in, hitting Davis three times. He died at the scene.

In the conversation with his fiancee, Rhonda Rouer, he also complained about being in a room by himself, but added: "But I guess it would be better than being in a room with them animals."

A short while later, he said, "I was in a room with three black guys."

"Two were kids and one was an old man," he continued. "And they asked what I was in for and I told them. And I gave them some of the details and they were like 'Straight up, that's what they get.'"

Audio of nine of Dunn's calls was released on Monday by the state attorney in Florida. All took place in December 2012 while he was in jail and were with Rouer or his parents, Phillip and Sandra Dunn. Also released was a letter that he wrote describing the shooting.

At first the teenagers turned down the music in their car, as he had asked, but then he wrote that he could hear one of the passengers in the back seat shouting that he should kill Dunn.

"He bends forward and picked something up with both hands," Dunn wrote. "As he's doing this, he says 'yeah-I'm going to f****** kill you!" and now I can tell what he's picked up, as he just laid a gun barrel against the window sill. I can see about four inches of the barrel sticking up and it looks thick enough to be a 12 gauge maybe a 20 gauge shotgun."

At first he was paralyzed by fear by the sight of the shotgun, he wrote.

"Something happened inside of me when he advanced towards me and my paralysis left me," he wrote. "Between fear, adrenaline and muscle-memory, I grabbed my pistol from the glove box. As I was doing so, I shouted, "You're not going to kill me you son of a b****!"




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 1:35:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie




So what?

The law said he wasn't guilty.

Get over it.

Erm no...
But thanks for coming in ten pages after the first post to denigrate it with misunderstanding..
Most excellent effort
[8|]


It's a gift.




BamaD -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 1:53:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie




So what?

The law said he wasn't guilty.

Get over it.

Erm no...
But thanks for coming in ten pages after the first post to denigrate it with misunderstanding..
Most excellent effort
[8|]


It's a gift.

You would think Dunn walked from some of the reactions here.
Instead he will spend the rest of his life in prison even if they don't retry the murder charge.




Lucylastic -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 1:58:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie




So what?

The law said he wasn't guilty.

Get over it.

Erm no...
But thanks for coming in ten pages after the first post to denigrate it with misunderstanding..
Most excellent effort
[8|]


It's a gift.

You would think Dunn walked from some of the reactions here.
Instead he will spend the rest of his life in prison even if they don't retry the murder charge.

That is your poor perception, as I was the first to say he deserves his 60 years, way back in post one
your observational point is bullshit.... especially when Lookie was talking about me to me......




DomKen -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 2:46:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. The jury simply has to, as happened in this case, apply a racial sensibility

He was not acquitted and what proof do you have of "racial sensibility"

Besides which, if the jury screws up the verdict you don't throw out the law.
Every law has come to a case were the jury got it wrong
Even the juror who somehow has the idea that Dunn got away with it says race had
nothing to do with the verdict.

3 jurors believed a plain lie. You can dance around the reason but we all know why.

For the moment lets pretend you are right, the law is not responsible for juror bias.
Are you trying to claim that the jurors were biased because of SYG which was denied(had to be or there wouldn't)
have been a trial) or are you trying to get all of your own prejudices out in a single argument?

SYG gave the jury the excuse. Without that law he could not have even tried to argue self defense and his confession would have basically ended the trial.




BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 2:52:36 PM)

SYG gave the jury the excuse. Without that law he could not have even tried to argue self defense and his confession would have basically ended the trial.

SYG was denied.
If anything that would have given the jury and excuse to convict.
Of course he would have still tried self defense, that is all he had.
He hasn't been acquitted of anything.
They want to let him walk so they put him away for the rest of his life, that's what you are saying.




DomKen -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 2:56:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

SYG gave the jury the excuse. Without that law he could not have even tried to argue self defense and his confession would have basically ended the trial.

SYG was denied.
If anything that would have given the jury and excuse to convict.
Of course he would have still tried self defense, that is all he had.
He hasn't been acquitted of anything.
They want to let him walk so they put him away for the rest of his life, that's what you are saying.

3 jurors let him walk on responsibility for killing Davis. And they did it because they believed his SYG claim.




BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:02:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

SYG gave the jury the excuse. Without that law he could not have even tried to argue self defense and his confession would have basically ended the trial.

SYG was denied.
If anything that would have given the jury and excuse to convict.
Of course he would have still tried self defense, that is all he had.
He hasn't been acquitted of anything.
They want to let him walk so they put him away for the rest of his life, that's what you are saying.

3 jurors let him walk on responsibility for killing Davis. And they did it because they believed his SYG claim.

And if they believed his self defense claim (SYG being off the table by that time) this proves racism how
You want it to be the fault of SYG and racism so bad you can't see past it.
I saw his testimony, he seemed quite earnest. I didn't believe him but I can see how a couple of jurors
might have been snowed.
How do you keep ignoring
A. He was not acquitted
B. They put him away for the rest of his life.




DomKen -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:05:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

SYG gave the jury the excuse. Without that law he could not have even tried to argue self defense and his confession would have basically ended the trial.

SYG was denied.
If anything that would have given the jury and excuse to convict.
Of course he would have still tried self defense, that is all he had.
He hasn't been acquitted of anything.
They want to let him walk so they put him away for the rest of his life, that's what you are saying.

3 jurors let him walk on responsibility for killing Davis. And they did it because they believed his SYG claim.

And if they believed his self defense claim (SYG being off the table by that time) this proves racism how
You want it to be the fault of SYG and racism so bad you can't see past it.
I saw his testimony, he seemed quite earnest. I didn't believe him but I can see how a couple of jurors
might have been snowed.
How do you keep ignoring
A. He was not acquitted
B. They put him away for the rest of his life.

Put yourself in Davis' parents' shoes. Would you like Dun not being convicted of killing their son?

And once more yes, he claimed SYG, if he didn't he could not have made a self defense claim at all since it didn't otherwise qualify.




kdsub -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:08:53 PM)

Can you not understand where so soon after the Zimmerman debacle another outright murderer is not convicted and how this could be seen as a miscarriage of justice by many African Americans?

Sure he will most likely spend the rest of his life behind bars but that is not the point...Justice needs to be administered equally for all.

Butch




cloudboy -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:18:17 PM)

quote:

Put yourself in Davis' parents' shoes.


The victim's mother wrote this:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/02/20/stand-your-ground-michael-dunn-jordan-davis-column/5655819/

**** While I understand the racial significance of this discussion, I believe the blame lies with the culture that emboldened Dunn to pull a loaded gun from his glove compartment and a law that encourages unnecessary violence. Florida's "stand your ground" law is the reason my son is dead. ****


**** People ask me what they can do to honor Jordan's memory. The answer is simple: They can join me and other moms who are calling on Florida and 25 other states to repeal "stand your ground" laws. There is a difference between feeling threatened and being in a life-threatening situation. That distinction should be clear under the law. In many states, it isn't. ****




BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:34:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

SYG gave the jury the excuse. Without that law he could not have even tried to argue self defense and his confession would have basically ended the trial.

SYG was denied.
If anything that would have given the jury and excuse to convict.
Of course he would have still tried self defense, that is all he had.
He hasn't been acquitted of anything.
They want to let him walk so they put him away for the rest of his life, that's what you are saying.

3 jurors let him walk on responsibility for killing Davis. And they did it because they believed his SYG claim.

And if they believed his self defense claim (SYG being off the table by that time) this proves racism how
You want it to be the fault of SYG and racism so bad you can't see past it.
I saw his testimony, he seemed quite earnest. I didn't believe him but I can see how a couple of jurors
might have been snowed.
How do you keep ignoring
A. He was not acquitted
B. They put him away for the rest of his life.

Put yourself in Davis' parents' shoes. Would you like Dun not being convicted of killing their son?

And once more yes, he claimed SYG, if he didn't he could not have made a self defense claim at all since it didn't otherwise qualify.

Please point out when I said he should get off on the murder charge.
I fully expect him to be convicted in the retrial.
I never said that the 3 attempted murder convictions are or should be the end of it.
I am in no way defending Dunn.




BamaD -> RE: Updated....Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:35:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Put yourself in Davis' parents' shoes.


The victim's mother wrote this:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/02/20/stand-your-ground-michael-dunn-jordan-davis-column/5655819/

**** While I understand the racial significance of this discussion, I believe the blame lies with the culture that emboldened Dunn to pull a loaded gun from his glove compartment and a law that encourages unnecessary violence. Florida's "stand your ground" law is the reason my son is dead. ****


**** People ask me what they can do to honor Jordan's memory. The answer is simple: They can join me and other moms who are calling on Florida and 25 other states to repeal "stand your ground" laws. There is a difference between feeling threatened and being in a life-threatening situation. That distinction should be clear under the law. In many states, it isn't. ****


Just because she believes it doesn't make it a fact.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree (2/21/2014 3:39:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie




So what?

The law said he wasn't guilty.

Get over it.

Erm no...
But thanks for coming in ten pages after the first post to denigrate it with misunderstanding..
Most excellent effort
[8|]


It's a gift.

You would think Dunn walked from some of the reactions here.
Instead he will spend the rest of his life in prison even if they don't retry the murder charge.

That is your poor perception, as I was the first to say he deserves his 60 years, way back in post one
your observational point is bullshit.... especially when Lookie was talking about me to me......



So, did the guy walk, or is he going to jail?




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