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RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 10:35:30 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I would like to have the death penalty for everyone who plays LOUD music or who smokes.

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"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 10:48:50 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		CNN suggests that the problem could well have been the jury was confused on the definitions of the various grades of murder.
As it is Dunn will be over 100 when he gets out of jail, that's not exactly "getting away with it" now is it?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 11:01:41 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

How would you rewrite it ? Don't ya think an idiot will try to use some other excuse ?


It is simply not a good idea to legitimize gun use in the arena of disputes and altercations. But, to answer your question, I don't know. It is common for laws to be rewritten after the holes and problems of them are exposed.


I don't think it's a good idea to legitimize gun use in the arena of disputes and altercations either. SYG laws don't do that. They simply eliminate the obligation to retreat if you're facing or about to face a deadly threat. The problem is people shooting when they shouldn't have, sometimes because of a dispute or altercation and then using SYG as an excuse. Juries need to see through that kind of shit. SYG laws are a result of overzealous anti gun prosecutors who will prosecute anyone who shoots, even if it was justified. Assholes and their lawyers use all kinds of excuses why they shot someone, from insanity to some kind of accident. Usually judges and juries don't buy it.

Even though in this case 3 jurors bought into reasonable doubt, this guy was still found guilty of enough as it is to stick the screws to em.


Edited to add:
Trying to throw the race card into it (on another post) doesn't help the discussion.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 2/19/2014 11:27:55 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 1:16:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Seems like 2 or particularly man should be slam dunk, why insist on the greater charge.
The only place I have heard that 2nd or man was on the table was from domken and he just
told me on another thread that something I saw didn't happen so I would like a better source.
Can you provide me with one.



I haven't really followed this case so I'm not as versed on it like the Zimmerman one was. But some who I know followed the case closely pointed out where the evidence was sufficient for reasonable doubt on the murder charge (the angle of the bullets proved that Davis had the car door open, while the other three passengers claimed it was child locked, etc).

The physical evidence presented at trial, besides Dunn's claim, was the fact that the door was closed when Dunn shot Davis through it.

The defense attorney was reduced to claiming that Davis reached out the window and opened the door from the outside because of the child locks.

There was no reasonable doubt and Dunn should be facing murder 2 to go along with the attempted murder charges.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 1:20:50 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

At no point does it say what the 3 were holding out for.
But of course we have to assume it was not guilty, otherwise we can't claim racism and rant against SYG.

The juror explicitly said the hold outs wanted not guilty due to self defense. What else do you need?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 3:36:04 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Seems like 2 or particularly man should be slam dunk, why insist on the greater charge.
The only place I have heard that 2nd or man was on the table was from domken and he just
told me on another thread that something I saw didn't happen so I would like a better source.
Can you provide me with one.



I haven't really followed this case so I'm not as versed on it like the Zimmerman one was. But some who I know followed the case closely pointed out where the evidence was sufficient for reasonable doubt on the murder charge (the angle of the bullets proved that Davis had the car door open, while the other three passengers claimed it was child locked, etc).

The physical evidence presented at trial, besides Dunn's claim, was the fact that the door was closed when Dunn shot Davis through it.

The defense attorney was reduced to claiming that Davis reached out the window and opened the door from the outside because of the child locks.

There was no reasonable doubt and Dunn should be facing murder 2 to go along with the attempted murder charges.

Agreed


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 3:40:00 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.


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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:01:01 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.



made up. The evidence at trial was that the door was closed.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:01:45 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.




Bullshit...... The pictures dont show any such thing.

Davis must have been moving as some of the bullets entered the car by the rear light cluster.

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:05:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.




Bullshit...... The pictures dont show any such thing.

Davis must have been moving as some of the bullets entered the car by the rear light cluster.


The SUV drove away as the young men inside desperately tried to escape the madman who was shooting at them so of course the angle changed. The car door was closed. The child lock was engaged.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:29:54 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.



Where did this come from?
Was it entered in evidence?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:32:41 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly Ken. He wouldnt have hit the front from one angle and the back from another and fired all the shots from the same body position.

I guess some people look at the photos and just see what they wish to see.

In the last week or two we have had threads defending a guy who shot a man for texting, another who shot kids for egging his car, another because the kids were playing loud music, and Zimmy who shot a kid walking home. It makes you wonder wtf some posters are on.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:41:35 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.



Where did this come from?
Was it entered in evidence?


The first picture was evidence, the second one was some photo adjustment to demonstrate how the angle fits with the door being open.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 4:59:26 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		It was still bullshit....... you claimed it proved the door was open, now you are saying it doesnt...

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 5:01:01 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.



Where did this come from?
Was it entered in evidence?


The first picture was evidence, the second one was some photo adjustment to demonstrate how the angle fits with the door being open.

I'll keep repeating, the uncontested facts entered into evidence was that the SUV door was closed when Dunn murdered Davis. The child lock was engaged so it was not possible for Davis to open the door. Dunn himself admitted that most of the shots he fired came after the SUV started to drive away so of course the angle of some of the shots changed.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 5:33:32 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

now you are saying it doesnt...



You really should stop fabricating things like that.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 6:49:48 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
Except that the angle of bullet entry into Davis' door showed it was open.



I agree that the change in angle does not prove that the door was open.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 6:59:44 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

FR

I would like to have the death penalty for everyone who plays LOUD music or who smokes.



This is easy to believe....

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/19/2014 7:04:44 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not sure what the point is with the angles but I can tell you the door in your example is not open... that is a terrible attempt with Photoshop to make the door look opened.. otherwise crap.



Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/19/2014 7:36:49 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/20/2014 12:20:32 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm not sure what the point is with the angles but I can tell you the door in your example is not open... that is a terrible attempt with Photoshop to make the door look opened.. otherwise crap.



Butch


It's not supposed to be a realistic photoshop job, just a demonstration of angles.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 140
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